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Match-making totally ruined the game

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minitel_NA #21 Posted 11 January 2019 - 11:17 PM

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People constantly are calling for the MM to be “fair” or “balanced” or “something”. Guys, WG never claimed to do any of that. They always claimed it’s RANDOM. Well it’s far less since u wanted no more than these many tanks of each class in each team, matching platoons, remove the newbies, and lot of other things u have always asked. 

 

Im not really sure what your definition of “fair” is. Personally I just want to win and I don’t give a ruble about fair, in fact I want to win games that looked impossible to win. 

 

Now if you want “balanced “ players go play ranked. And If you want “something” go play training room.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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ZebraUp #22 Posted 12 January 2019 - 12:02 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 11 January 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

Congratulations WG pick you specifically to lose...

 

/sarcasm.  

   We all see the same MM, Instead of whining about it, go look what you did or didn’t do in that game, and learn from it. 

 

 

 

I don't know about this guy, but i just left a battle that along with a ton of others made me feel singled out to lose... i was in my T-44 at Mines and did well over 3K damage along with 3 kills and nobody on the rest of my entire team (including two 60%'ers!) didn't break 1100 damage.. oh, and i was bottom tier. 

It's disheartening when you play your butt off and still get losses again and again.

And yeah, i did replay the battle.. there wasn't anything I could have done to do more for my team that i could see.


Edited by ZebraUp, 12 January 2019 - 03:17 AM.

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Gavidoc01 #23 Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:27 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 11 January 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

Congratulations WG pick you specifically to lose...

 

/sarcasm.  

   We all see the same MM, Instead of whining about it, go look what you did or didn’t do in that game, and learn from it. 

 

 

 

Between last night and this morning my wr over 50 battles fell below 57% which well below my average. Did I blame the teams or MM? Nope. What I realized was that I was close to being on tilt and as a result was getting too aggressive which in turn was making me lose more. Why I’m taking a break for the rest of the day to reset myself before going back in tomorrow. 

 

Despite this latest dip I’m still winning more than my average.  Why? I recognize it is my problem to deal with and make the changes required to prevent it from continuing. 

 

Self awareness will go a go a long way for many to realize how to improve. 


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tankist22 #24 Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:02 AM

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View PostGavidoc01, on 11 January 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

Between last night and this morning my wr over 50 battles fell below 57% which well below my average. Did I blame the teams or MM? Nope. What I realized was that I was close to being on tilt and as a result was getting too aggressive which in turn was making me lose more. Why I’m taking a break for the rest of the day to reset myself before going back in tomorrow. 

 

Despite this latest dip I’m still winning more than my average.  Why? I recognize it is my problem to deal with and make the changes required to prevent it from continuing. 

 

Self awareness will go a go a long way for many to realize how to improve. 

 

I have to agree with this.

_irongiant_ #25 Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:04 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 11 January 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

 

Congratulations WG pick you specifically to lose...

 

/sarcasm.  

   We all see the same MM, Instead of whining about it, go look what you did or didn’t do in that game, and learn from it. 

 

 

 

Maybe you should refrain from being sarcastic and read what I wrote, 6 games in a row and I was the only player above 50%, take a wild guess at what their scores were.

Btw, no one cares about that antiquated [edited]response anymore, “go learn what you did wrong” here’s what I did wrong, I logged in and played.

I’m not looking to be sad or expect anything for these [edited]losses, I’m just stating a fact. 



_irongiant_ #26 Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:09 AM

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View PostZebraUp, on 12 January 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

 

I don't know about this guy, but i just left a battle that along with a ton of others made me feel singled out to lose... i was in my T-44 at Mines and did well over 3K damage along with 3 kills and nobody on the rest of my entire team (including two 60%'ers!) didn't break 1100 damage.. oh, and i was bottom tier. 

It's disheartening when you play your butt off and still get losses again and again.

And yeah, i did replay the battle.. there wasn't anything I could have done to do more for my team that i could see.

 

And yet you were probably told it was your fault somehow. Everyone knows this game is great then garbage, we all accept it but we’re also tired of hearing morons add their two cents and pretend like their perfect. For gods sake, people should just be allowed to vent and move on. Good feedback, I guess you were just getting your small dose of garbage games too, it happens but oh well.



CA_vampire #27 Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:30 AM

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View Postminitel_NA, on 11 January 2019 - 04:17 PM, said:

People constantly are calling for the MM to be “fair” or “balanced” or “something”. Guys, WG never claimed to do any of that. They always claimed it’s RANDOM.  

 

No, you are wrong. They never claimed it is "random". They only said that MM tries to make the game interesting and that it is not based on player win rate. 

 

Actually, there is no explanation anywhere about how MM (and RNG) exactly works.

 

Some random forumers, who do not work for WG and they are not programmers and they have no specialized knowledge or experience on coding but have thousands and thousands of messages in the forum, scream again and again that MM works randomly and this and that, and by their screaming and their insults and their sarcasm they silence everyone else. Actually, they know nothing, there is no evidence that MM (and RNG) is "completely random", and none of us knows how the software works and what the software programmers put in there.

 

   

 



Absolute_Sniper #28 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:22 AM

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Am I the only one that realizes that massive changes to the MM would cause more losses for most good players and more wins for most poor players? If WG removes all the “nubs” from your matchmaking and only places you with players with your ability, it’s a coin flip on who is going to win. Eventually it would all balance out to around 50% WR for all players.

Who would win in a fight between you and you? What you want is to win more games. You don’t want everyone on your team to be the same as you. Although if I’m being honest what it sounds like is everyone wants rigged matchmaking. They just want all the bad players placed on red every time. You will never get the play you want from your teammates every game. Ironically enough, neither do the red guys. The only thing you can impact is your performances. Find ways to win and stop looking for excuses for losses. Will there be games that you did everything you could and still lose, sure. That’s the challenge though. Fact is everyone gets the same MM and the only bias in blitz is Russian tanks armor.

Dan_Deerso #29 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:54 AM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 11 January 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

 

No, you are wrong. They never claimed it is "random". They only said that MM tries to make the game interesting and that it is not based on player win rate. 

 

Actually, there is no explanation anywhere about how MM (and RNG) exactly works.

 

Some random forumers, who do not work for WG and they are not programmers and they have no specialized knowledge or experience on coding but have thousands and thousands of messages in the forum, scream again and again that MM works randomly and this and that, and by their screaming and their insults and their sarcasm they silence everyone else. Actually, they know nothing, there is no evidence that MM (and RNG) is "completely random", and none of us knows how the software works and what the software programmers put in there.

 

   

 

 

Sorry, did I show you my resume? No? Then don't assume I lack certain skills in certain areas. Thanks.

 

Now that that's out of the way, let me ask you, Mr. Experience. What's faster, filling up two teams with whatever's been in queue the longest, or setting up specific teams to win with large enough margins to matter? Also, if the second part is your choice, how do you do it and fake two identical bell curves of teammates and enemies over large numbers of battles at the same time?

 

People are ridiculed for claiming RNG and MM is rigged because, without fail, it is used as a crutch for the faulty "I'm better than I am" argument. If one guy makes two different accounts on two different devices, plays the same, and gets the same exact stats within moe, how can you say with such certainty that matchmaker or RNG are rigged?

 

And yes. If you say the line "I'm a programmer and it has to be this" in your reply, you won't just sound like an idiot.



minitel_NA #30 Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:06 AM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 12 January 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

 

No, you are wrong. They never claimed it is "random". They only said that MM tries to make the game interesting and that it is not based on player win rate. 

 

Actually, there is no explanation anywhere about how MM (and RNG) exactly works.

 

Some random forumers, who do not work for WG and they are not programmers and they have no specialized knowledge or experience on coding but have thousands and thousands of messages in the forum, scream again and again that MM works randomly and this and that, and by their screaming and their insults and their sarcasm they silence everyone else. Actually, they know nothing, there is no evidence that MM (and RNG) is "completely random", and none of us knows how the software works and what the software programmers put in there.

 

   

 

 

I would say that most of your message is right. 

 

However  wargaming has said that the mm is random. Which it is not 100% of course, but at least the player picking part.

 

Post addition : does this game send you through emotional rollercoasters ? Yes it does. Is that the reason why we can’t drop it ? Probably. I have tried a lot of games which left me real cold, and believe me not many of them I’m still playing. I think it’s a trait of good design. Call it rigged if you want. 

 

However i stand by my words to say that player selection is “mostly random” and even if they wanted to fine comb them, they can’t  do much with so many bad players.

And here I say “mostly random”, because some criterias have been added and are visible, and those have been asked for by the players.

 

And that’s also why stand by my words that over the years I have seen players crying forever because games weren’t fair, and wanting this or that. and every time WG implemented it it was detrimental to the game.

 

Players repeatedly ask to have teams that are neatpicked where every tank is symmetrical, with the same exact tanks in both teams, every player is symmetrical, with the same amount of good or bad players in both teams. To a certain degree WG has tried to comply, and those lead to the current MM and the ranked games that not enough people play....

 

and I am ready to discuss much further how crying playerbase requests made the game currently as it is, and worst than it was, at least in my opinion.

 

if your post was asking something else than I mentioned, you are welcome to add something. 


Edited by minitel_NA, 12 January 2019 - 08:14 AM.

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pen_pen_1 #31 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:52 PM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 12 January 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

Some random forumers, who do not work for WG and they are not programmers and they have no specialized knowledge or experience on coding but have thousands and thousands of messages in the forum, scream again and again that MM works randomly and this and that, and by their screaming and their insults and their sarcasm they silence everyone else. Actually, they know nothing, there is no evidence that MM (and RNG) is "completely random"

 

   

 

 

this is one of the most relevant posts i have seen in recent months. after update 5.5, you can easily tell some people's true color. strong evidence that this forum is rigged.



Gavidoc01 #32 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:05 PM

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View Postpen_pen_1, on 12 January 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

this is one of the most relevant posts i have seen in recent months. after update 5.5, you can easily tell some people's true color. strong evidence that this forum is rigged.

 

it’s called The Society. Sorry you aren’t a member. 

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You’re welcome for supporting the game. 


pen_pen_1 #33 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:09 PM

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View PostGavidoc01, on 12 January 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

 

it’s called The Society. Sorry you aren’t a member. 

 

  oh i dont like to be a member. never.

Dan_Deerso #34 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:47 PM

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View Postpen_pen_1, on 12 January 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

this is one of the most relevant posts i have seen in recent months. after update 5.5, you can easily tell some people's true color. strong evidence that this forum is rigged.

 

I've been very clear that I don't like seal clubbers. 3.8 was a bad update, not 5.5 in my eyes.



acrisis #35 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:49 PM

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View Postwatertankz, on 10 January 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

I haven’t played WoT Blitz for a couple of years and just recently started playing again. 
...
With my win rate dropping from near 80 to mere 60s within a short few days is just not okay.
...

 

So, you come back after two years of inactivity, reroll / create a new account, think that 80% win rate is realistic, and dropping from 80 to 60 in a couple days is bad ... 

 

Can’t make this stuff up. 

 

One could do worse within 5 battles. Win 1. 100%. Lose 4. 20%. 

 

 

 

 


 

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oldman15000 #36 Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:24 PM

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I started playing this game awhile ago.  I play tier 4 M7 a lot.  I am low tier about 75 to 80% of the time and I am usually the only tier 4, or at the most 1 of 2 tier 4.  It is tough to fight a tier 5 with a tier 4 tank.  There is too much difference in the armor, fire power of those two tiers.  I can't really complain about how I do in the battles, I am satisfied for now with MY performance.  Never the less there is a pretty good divide between 4 and 5 tiers in the tanks abilities and armor.  Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like. LOL

 


Edited by oldman15000, 14 January 2019 - 09:28 PM.


CA_vampire #37 Posted 15 January 2019 - 12:43 PM

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View PostDan_Deerso, on 11 January 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:

Sorry, did I show you my resume? No? Then don't assume I lack certain skills in certain areas. Thanks.

 

Now that that's out of the way, let me ask you, Mr. Experience. What's faster, filling up two teams with whatever's been in queue the longest, or setting up specific teams to win with large enough margins to matter? 

 

"Faster" is irrelevant. It takes milliseconds for the computations, whatever MM you may have. Computational time is not even an issue. Neither is the available player pool, you can have computational rules for the MM whatever the pool might be at any given moment (that's why in rare instances we get teams with 5 or 8 tanks). Even if you only have a restricted pool of 14 players, the question of the MM is how do you split these 14 players into 2 teams and this ALWAYS depends on some computational rules. And none of us knows what exactly the WG rules are. 

 

As you see, I don't have to read your resume. From what you say it is obvious to me that you don't know much about these things!

 

 

 


Edited by CA_vampire, 15 January 2019 - 01:06 PM.


CA_vampire #38 Posted 15 January 2019 - 12:59 PM

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View Postminitel_NA, on 12 January 2019 - 01:06 AM, said:

 

I would say that most of your message is right. 

 

However  wargaming has said that the mm is random. Which it is not 100% of course, but at least the player picking part.

 

 

No, they never said that MM is random. If you want to claim this, then please find this announcement and give us the link. If MM was random, why don't they have that in their web site. 

 

Furthermore, please think a little bit about what "random" means. In the MM there are obviously some rules. Actually, if you think about it, there are A LOT of rules! First of all, the MM has to pick 2 tiers. Which ones? Why 6-7 and not 7-8? How does it pick the two tiers? It is rules! How does it pick how many tanks from 7 and how many tanks from 8? More rules! What type of tanks? Which tanks? Which players? All those are computational rules. It is not just "random", or you could see tier 1 vs tier 10. It is rules and more rules and yet more rules. And we have no idea what the MM rules are. MM is an computational algorithm, a complicated "recipe". It is very naive that people believe it is "just random", biological Evolution works with "random" but that's not how software works.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by CA_vampire, 15 January 2019 - 01:02 PM.


TO_Dominator #39 Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:23 PM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 15 January 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

 

No, they never said that MM is random. If you want to claim this, then please find this announcement and give us the link. If MM was random, why don't they have that in their web site. 

 

Furthermore, please think a little bit about what "random" means. In the MM there are obviously some rules. Actually, if you think about it, there are A LOT of rules! First of all, the MM has to pick 2 tiers. Which ones? Why 6-7 and not 7-8? How does it pick the two tiers? It is rules! How does it pick how many tanks from 7 and how many tanks from 8? More rules! What type of tanks? Which tanks? Which players? All those are computational rules. It is not just "random", or you could see tier 1 vs tier 10. It is rules and more rules and yet more rules. And we have no idea what the MM rules are. MM is an computational algorithm, a complicated "recipe". It is very naive that people believe it is "just random", biological Evolution works with "random" but that's not how software works.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from matching tank types, platoons, and the tier of vehicles, how is MM not random? 

 

If it's not random, why do 40%, 30% and 60% players exist?

 

And is there ANY reason for MM not to be random? Ask yourself this.


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Dan_Deerso #40 Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:40 PM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 15 January 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

 

"Faster" is irrelevant. It takes milliseconds for the computations, whatever MM you may have. Computational time is not even an issue. Neither is the available player pool, you can have computational rules for the MM whatever the pool might be at any given moment (that's why in rare instances we get teams with 5 or 8 tanks). Even if you only have a restricted pool of 14 players, the question of the MM is how do you split these 14 players into 2 teams and this ALWAYS depends on some computational rules. And none of us knows what exactly the WG rules are. 

 

As you see, I don't have to read your resume. From what you say it is obvious to me that you don't know much about these things!

 

 

 

 

Yes, because there's always enough players available to fill two teams at any given time with zero wait time. I don't have to read your resume, either. From what you say it is obvious to me that you've never worked on anything practical or time-restricted. 

 

View PostCA_vampire, on 15 January 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

 

No, they never said that MM is random. If you want to claim this, then please find this announcement and give us the link. If MM was random, why don't they have that in their web site. 

 

 

Since you're lazy, here ya go.

 

View PostSpartacusDiablo, on 18 October 2017 - 07:21 AM, said:

Want to talk about match making?  Then you're in the right place.  This thread is for all things match making.  Like it? Don't like it?  Discuss why here.  Please be sure to keep your discussions respectful.

 

The following questions and answers come from a discussion I had RibbleStripe. 

 

 

What is Matchmaker?
Matchmaker (MM) is a special tool that forms teams in random battle. When forming teams MM follows ground rules:
- Team equality i.e. teams should be as balanced as possible;
- Interesting team composition = interesting gameplay;
- Short waiting time i.e. teams should be formed as quickly as possible;
- "+/- 1" i.e. tier VI tank can battle against vehicles ranging from tier VI to tier VII etc.

 

What criteria does MM consider in random battles?
MM consider balance weight that reflects overall efficiency of each vehicle. Balance weight depends on vehicles' tier - theefore, MM tries to form teams with equal number of vehicles with the same tier. 
MM doesn't consider:
- personal skill level;
- tank nation or class;
- crew mastery level;
- vehicle configuration (mounted modules, equipment, consumables);

- previous battles experience and outcome.

 

Why doesn't MM consider vehicle classes? Isn't it better to form teams with equal number of LT, MT, HT and TD?
One of MM rules is interesting team composition. Different tanks have different roles on the battlefield. MM seeks to ensure variety in the types of vehicles on the battlefield so that the battle gameplay and tactics remain varied from start to finish.

 

How does MM work for platoons?
MM consider the highest vehicle tier in platoon. For example platoon formed by KV-1 and M6 can battle against tier VII tanks. 

 

Are there any exceptions for MM rules?
Pz.Kpfw. B2 740 (f) and Valentine II can battle only against tier III-IV vehicles due to low firepower.

 

What is honeymoon period? 
Once you purchase a recently researched vehicle you get a honeymoon period for it. It means that MM will try to put your tank up top for several battles. Keep in mind that this condition is not guaranteed - if it takes more time than usual MM won't consider honeymoon period.

 

Will the findings from ranked battles be implemented into random battles?
It isn't excluded. If any MM adjustment for ranked battles appears useful for random battles it can be brought into this mode.

 

Other questions don't concern MM. However:
 

Will ranked battles expand to include more tiers?  

We'll see. Ranked battles is a new mode - some changes can be made after researches. 

 

Can you expand on how the Random Number Generator factors hits, penetration and damage values, mainly is this an on the fly during battle calculation, or have some been preloaded before battle.

Penetration is calculated at the same moment when shell touches armor. Damage is calculated at the same moment when shell penetrates. There are no preloaded calculations.

 

Edited by RibbleStripe, 16 February 2018 - 04:08 AM.

 







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