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What the flank?


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MaxxDamage #1 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:14 PM

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Happened yet again.  Tier 7-8 battle, spawn on Malinovka with lake to right, 4 high, 3 low.  Called "left all please", got a couple of affirmatives.  One med declares he was "flanking" and two decide to follow him, despite protests from the others.  30 seconds later they run into all 7 reds and we are down 7-4, two of them scored 0, the rest is history.  The flanker and I "chatted" after the game and he pointed out that if I did not understand the importance of flanking then I should study tactics.

 

I shared with him my understanding of flanking...

1. Locate enemy

2. Move some units around to the side to exploit weaknesses in their line, create additional targeting angles and cause confusion

Important: If you do step 2 without completing step 1 first, you are just yoloing!

 

We agreed to disagree.

 

 



boppinbobby #2 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:35 PM

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i feel your pain. 

MAyan temple, Tier X. Meds flanked. Heavies spotted at would would be A I got side shot, so meds were also around that area, the other side of the temple. i turned to hold them back. Turns out it was all 4 meds. called for help. all 7 reds spotted. our meds continue through their spawn while i'm getting hammered by 4 meds. E 100 left is holding heavies back the other side.  Our T95  lasted 400 dmg somehow. 

We won but only because their heavies didn't push fast enough. 


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djhiz #3 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:36 PM

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So, did you guys not do step two? It's not their job to do step two... If they died by exposing themselves and you couldn't get shots in time, that's cool; not on you, but if they tried to stay alive and spot... It's not their fault.

Edited by djhiz, 21 January 2019 - 10:37 PM.

 

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MaxxDamage #4 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:44 PM

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View Postdjhiz, on 21 January 2019 - 05:36 PM, said:

So, did you guys not do step two? It's not their job to do step two... If they died by exposing themselves and you couldn't get shots in time, that's cool; not on you, but if they tried to stay alive and spot... It's not their fault.

 

They drove straight to corner and got swarmed 7 on 3.  The rest of us had been moving left and tried to adjust but it was too late.  I think it's everyone's job to do step one before any flanking decisions are made.

MaxxDamage #5 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:46 PM

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View Postboppinbobby, on 21 January 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

i feel your pain. 

MAyan temple, Tier X. Meds flanked. Heavies spotted at would would be A I got side shot, so meds were also around that area, the other side of the temple. i turned to hold them back. Turns out it was all 4 meds. called for help. all 7 reds spotted. our meds continue through their spawn while i'm getting hammered by 4 meds. E 100 left is holding heavies back the other side.  Our T95  lasted 400 dmg somehow. 

We won but only because their heavies didn't push fast enough. 

 

Mayan Temple especially brutal since it can take so long to get from the bottom of the bridge to the back area.

djhiz #6 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:52 PM

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View PostMaxxDamage, on 21 January 2019 - 10:44 PM, said:

 

They drove straight to corner and got swarmed 7 on 3.  The rest of us had been moving left and tried to adjust but it was too late.  I think it's everyone's job to do step one before any flanking decisions are made.

 

Got it. Yeah, if they actually wanted to live they'd have stayed in the bushes on those ridges.

 

Funny that I get called a camper all the time for spotting from those bushes... I guess my teams think I'd be better served attaching a bayonet to my barrel and reenacting pickett's charge or some sh*t like that... lol


Edited by djhiz, 21 January 2019 - 10:52 PM.

 

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_Cletus #7 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:55 PM

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Is it better for the team to all go to the same side of the map?  Sure.  Is it good to have flankers go to the other side of the map to spot?  Sure.  These things seem to be mutually exclusive though.  It's on  the flankers to be careful when finding the enemy, and it's on the flankers to rush to the heavies if they spot all the reds first.  What gets me is when lights and meds split from the heavies, get to the far side of the map, and then ask for help when they get swarmed.  Heavies don't cross maps swiftly at all, at that point there is not much they can do.  If you want the heavies on that side of the map you gotta tell them at the beginning of the match, not the middle.  Anyway, it's good to have crossfire, spotting, etc, but if you die all of that crap is out the window.  

 

In conclusion, I support lights/meds flanking but they have to be careful, they have to be ready to run when they see reds, they have to get to the other side of the map fast if the heavies see the meds.  If you don't think you can do this, just stick with the team.


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A good heavy driver knows how to make shots bounce off their armor, how to use cover while fighting at the front, when to get out there and just take the shot to protect his team, to keep the reds attention focused so his team can flank, and to consistently do damage while all of that happens.  


djhiz #8 Posted 21 January 2019 - 10:56 PM

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View PostMaxxDamage, on 21 January 2019 - 10:44 PM, said:

I think it's everyone's job to do step one before any flanking decisions are made.

 

I'd agree with that except for the fact that battles these days last a very short time. In order to do ANY damage as a light you kind of have to take that risk and flank first thing. The good players have escape plans and the bad ones just yolo/suicide. It's a sad reality and a testament to how Wargaming has some serious work to do in slowing down game progression.

 

View Post_Cletus, on 21 January 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

If you want the heavies on that side of the map you gotta tell them at the beginning of the match, not the middle.

 

This almost never works. Every time I tell heavies to go somewhere, they'll either split or go the opposite direction where I am no help to them. After that, the medium rush which I predicted happens and I die with barely any damage, and the heavies cave soon after.

 

Like f*cking clockwork...


Edited by djhiz, 21 January 2019 - 10:59 PM.

 

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flexsphincter4 #9 Posted 21 January 2019 - 11:08 PM

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s

Sounds like he was force recon and ran into the whole dam army with no plan of egress ,  or,   yolo.

 



SkillsInTheHills #10 Posted 21 January 2019 - 11:54 PM

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I find playing meds (or tanks that act like meds like Helsing) far more fun than playing as a heavy.

 

I love to flank and think it can be very effective in many blitz battles.

 

My decision to flank is always based on the tanks on each team.  If I think we win the flank easily, I will always take it, and ask my fellow lights and meds to join me.

 

If I think it's close, I might approach it cautiously, but be ready to run back to heavies if need be.  It's important to note that just because both teams have equal numbers of lights/meds, doesn't mean a balanced fight.  Sometimes the other team is all stronger, higher tier tanks, and the flank will be very difficult.

 

If I think my team is outflanked, i may just go all of us one direction, or if say I'm the only med/light on team, I might cautiously spot on flank, just so we know where everyone is; always ready to run away.  

 

I can't comment on your example without knowing what tanks were on teach team.

 

One thing I find is pretty nub is the idea the the team should ALWAYS go together, no matter what, particularly in supremacy mode.  I encounter nubs who start railing on me because I want to flank or go cap the other side with the lights/meds. 

 

I've been in battles where the flank was going to be a sure-fire win, and I have some nub heavy ripping on me as we make our way over there.  Then we invariably wipe out the opposing flank and loop around to surround the enemy heavies.  I end up doing top damage by farming off the backs of the red heavies, and I tell that nub green heavy to try to resist the urge to shout commands at the team until he's gotten better at understanding the game.



acrisis #11 Posted 22 January 2019 - 12:35 AM

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I miss the old Oasis Palms ... plenty of times a flank idea would get smashed that way. 

 

Winter Malinovka ... flank swamp to turn heads at windmill 

 

 

 


 

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Ericmopar #12 Posted 22 January 2019 - 01:15 AM

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View PostMaxxDamage, on 21 January 2019 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

Mayan Temple especially brutal since it can take so long to get from the bottom of the bridge to the back area.

 

That's why on Myan ruins the whole team should go "top" that way heavies can kinda keep up.
But usually the dumbies go "down" into what I call the "pit of death" below the bridges and get shot from above.

On most maps high ground wins, but there are people that will argue until their pixel death about that.


Edited by Ericmopar, 22 January 2019 - 01:18 AM.

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djhiz #13 Posted 22 January 2019 - 01:25 AM

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View PostEricmopar, on 22 January 2019 - 01:15 AM, said:

 

That's why on Myan ruins the whole team should go "top" that way heavies can kinda keep up.
But usually the dumbies go "down" into what I call the "pit of death" below the bridges and get shot from above.

On most maps high ground wins, but there are people that will argue until their pixel death about that.

 

High ground is relative.

 

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4sfield #14 Posted 22 January 2019 - 10:01 AM

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  3. It’s only a flank if everybody doesn’t go the same way

  4. It’s not a flank if you stop and camp, it’s hiding

  5. Shorten your flank if all of the reds are lit on the other side of the map or you’re gonna be in a fight you can’t win

  

  I hate flanktards a lot at WM, Lost Temple, Mayan Ruins, Dead Rail, Rockfield, Falls Creek, Normandie, Naval Frontier and Canyons as much as I hate the castle campers at Castilla. By that I mean the guys who quit on it for no reason. The most important thing about flanking is to get there so you can make an impact. The next most important thing is to recognize when it’s time to give up on it and flee in the direction of the guys who didn’t flank. There’s a lot more to it than just going the opposite direction than what’s called. 

 

  Good medium and light play is something you usually don’t get out of guys you aren’t familiar with. It takes map and situational awareness along with knowledge of spotting mechanics to be any good at it all. On the reverse side, there is nothing worse than spotting the entire red team and the heavies refusing to move out of their cozy spots. 


Edited by 4sfield, 22 January 2019 - 10:01 AM.

 

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