35 replies to this topic

[Bachus131]

Totally agree Mines should be tier 5 and below and Oasis should be tier 5 and above the new players just can't handle the choices it offers. 

[_Crusader6_]

I don’t really mind Mines in higher tiers.  

  Of course I generally play gun depression tanks with decent turrets.  

 

But while the initial opening is pretty pretty clear to anyone with a brain 90% of the playerbase has proven they don’t have that.   

 

I woukd strongly support a rework.  

[tankist22]

__Crusader6__, on 28 January 2019 - 11:47 PM, said:

I woukd strongly support a rework.  

 

Lol, do you remember the old mines? Left, right, middle?

[_Crusader6_]

tankist22, on 29 January 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

 

Lol, do you remember the old mines? Left, right, middle?

 

I liked the old Mines better than the current. 

   It was horribly unbalanced- but it didn’t have a town  

[MudkipAtWar]

TEXAS_for_the_win, on 28 January 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

don't tell anyone, but you still can get on the hill without going up the main path

 

teach me your ways

[__V_O_P__]

Posit1ve_, on 28 January 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

I like Mines.

 

It's probably one of the more underestimated maps IMO, and one of the few asymmetrical maps I actually like. 

 

Sure, the inital stages play out fairly similarly on each match, but the mid game on mines becomes far more dynamic, and requires more thought than most maps.

 

Do you retreat back to underneath the hill where your TDs can possibly cover you?

Do you turn around and destroy the enemy flankers going through town?

Do you move to an island corner to control the hill entrance?

Do you make a bold push through the town or island to get to a corner to spot the enemy TDs and crossfire the hill?

Do you push onto the hill while the enemy isn't looking?

 

There's so many different things to do on mines after the opening moves by both teams which makes it far more dynamic than other maps where the moves are a lot more preset

 

^ this. +ve on point again. 

 

I would only add that the simplicity of the map lends itself to concentrating on simple tanking. Yes TDs are waiting to take your turret off, but that’s all part of the game. Plus there’s spots from where you can get shots with only small risks. Mines encourages smart tanking. Resetting camo. Hull down. Accurate shooting. It’s also a map where most everyone’s role is very very clear. 

[_Crusader6_]

__V_O_P__, on 29 January 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

 

^ this. +ve on point again. 

 

I would only add that the simplicity of the map lends itself to concentrating on simple tanking. Yes TDs are waiting to take your turret off, but that’s all part of the game. Plus there’s spots from where you can get shots with only small risks. Mines encourages smart tanking. Resetting camo. Hull down. Accurate shooting. It’s also a map where most everyone’s role is very very clear. 

 

One simple correction.   A map where everyone’s role SHOULD be clear  

Edited by __Crusader6__, 29 January 2019 - 02:23 PM.

[vvk2]

__V_O_P__, on 29 January 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

 

^ this. +ve on point again. 

 

I would only add that the simplicity of the map lends itself to concentrating on simple tanking. Yes TDs are waiting to take your turret off, but that’s all part of the game. Plus there’s spots from where you can get shots with only small risks. Mines encourages smart tanking. Resetting camo. Hull down. Accurate shooting. It’s also a map where most everyone’s role is very very clear. 

You are listing qualities that basically are unknown to 95% of the players....

[vvk2]

My biggest issue with Mines (both old and new) that it has an inherited conflict for meds drivers. On one hand meds are expected to get the hill, but on the other hand the ones that actually do that usually get punished. Even if you survive you are unlikely to farm much damage. I've seen countless good tankers in meds who refuse to rush the hill. I am sure a lot of folks reading this post when on that map, instead of rushing just stoped and waited for the red meds to come. But we all know that if the med rush is successful it gives a significant advantage to the team. So basically a med driver is expected to sacrifice the tank for a win. This is the only map when such a behavior is actually expected. On other maps you can play your role (e.g. med or heavy) and be somewhat safe if you play smart. On Mines only few tanks can make it to the hill without being severely punished.  

[tpcshadow]

I would also add that the map isn't very balanced between the spawns either. For example, the TD camping spot on one side is easier to cover a large area compared to the other. At the hill ridge, one side has a flatter approach than the other, giving a benefit to tanks without good gun depression, so, for example, and IS-3 can sit on that ridge and shoot the hull of a T34 on the other side that can see nothing but the IS-3s turret. One side has a better approach to the island, etc. This makes the map very tank type dependent.

 

[Gavidoc01]

I don't mind the new mines in higher tier  but enjoyed the old mines. As Pos1tive said, it's one of the few maps in the game that can be played multiple ways after initial contact.

[_Crusader6_]

vvk2, on 29 January 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:

My biggest issue with Mines (both old and new) that it has an inherited conflict for meds drivers. On one hand meds are expected to get the hill, but on the other hand the ones that actually do that usually get punished. Even if you survive you are unlikely to farm much damage. I've seen countless good tankers in meds who refuse to rush the hill. I am sure a lot of folks reading this post when on that map, instead of rushing just stoped and waited for the red meds to come. But we all know that if the med rush is successful it gives a significant advantage to the team. So basically a med driver is expected to sacrifice the tank for a win. This is the only map when such a behavior is actually expected. On other maps you can play your role (e.g. med or heavy) and be somewhat safe if you play smart. On Mines only few tanks can make it to the hill without being severely punished.  

 

I don’t rush hill.   I type ‘control the hill entrance’.  I rush up and stop short, my goal is not to expose and track the poor shmuck who tries to rush on red.  

 

Rushing is pretty much a desthwish if any reds expect it (and let’s face it - most are waiting on it). 

[__V_O_P__]

vvk2, on 29 January 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

My biggest issue with Mines (both old and new) that it has an inherited conflict for meds drivers. On one hand meds are expected to get the hill, but on the other hand the ones that actually do that usually get punished. Even if you survive you are unlikely to farm much damage. I've seen countless good tankers in meds who refuse to rush the hill. I am sure a lot of folks reading this post when on that map, instead of rushing just stoped and waited for the red meds to come. But we all know that if the med rush is successful it gives a significant advantage to the team. So basically a med driver is expected to sacrifice the tank for a win. This is the only map when such a behavior is actually expected. On other maps you can play your role (e.g. med or heavy) and be somewhat safe if you play smart. On Mines only few tanks can make it to the hill without being severely punished.  

 

If I’m a Med I rarely rush the hill - unless there’s a few of us and we are faster than Red - otherwise it’s a death trap.

 

I would say that played properly if Red gets there first with only one tank I dont see it as an issue. There’s a small advantage but it’s manageable. 

[RommelTanker]

Posit1ve_, on 28 January 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

 

that’s because they didn’t make a supremacy for it.

 

On PC, Mines is one of the 8 primary competitive maps that has been played pretty much since the beginning, and Blitz Mines is basically identical to PC Mines, but the distances are slightly scaled down

 

"Slightly"

 

Maximum shooting range you can get from the Lighthouse hill on mines to the enemy cap is 200 to 300 meters.

 

Same position and angle on Blitz: 100m tops

 

 

[Vacazion]

__Crusader6__, on 29 January 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

 

One simple correction.   A map where everyone’s role SHOULD be clear  

 

One simple solution.  Make tankers play ONLY mines until they have a 30 day WR of at least 50%.  You will learn everything you need to know about yoloing, gun depression, armor, hull down, avoid towns, relocating, spotting, patience, etc.  You will learn a lot about tanks in that map.  No real sidescraping unless you mess around in town but you can’t have everything.  

[Gavidoc01]

__Crusader6__, on 29 January 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

I don’t rush hill.   I type ‘control the hill entrance’.  I rush up and stop short, my goal is not to expose and track the poor shmuck who tries to rush on red.  

 

Rushing is pretty much a desthwish if any reds expect it (and let’s face it - most are waiting on it). 

 

I do the same. I say "deny hill entrance" and will stop short so I can get a tracking shot in if I can.