Jump to content


I get the feeling that matchmaker is rigged

matchmaker

  • Please log in to reply
143 replies to this topic

ABN_Bearcat #41 Posted 13 February 2019 - 09:54 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 41216 battles
  • 880
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013

View PostGodzillacus, on 13 February 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

My WR took a nose dive has others have mentioned. I think its the low tier massacre that is causing this even if I play only Tier 6 and up since then. Teir 1-5 is so painfully boring that many have started playing higher tiers than they normally would, that of course changes "meta". If you don't adjust your play to match the new makeup of teams and skill levels you have problems. Just a theory...........

 

View Postkrietenstein34, on 13 February 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

I've dropped .50 percentage points since they implemented wrecking tier 1 thru 5.   Anybody top that?  Yes, a half percent. Big . 50. 1/2

 

I'm feast or famine. Mostly famine

 

I do think this plays a role in the poor play. It causes players to rush to higher tiers without understanding key concepts of the game and with low or missing crew skills.



General_pain_in_the_asp #42 Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:16 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 11030 battles
  • 174
  • [MOMB]
  • Member since:
    02-08-2016
I don't know about 'rigged', but I know I am better in my mod 1 in my account with less than 5k battles than I am in my mod 1 in my account with 10k battles.....

General_pain_in_the_asp #43 Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:16 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 11030 battles
  • 174
  • [MOMB]
  • Member since:
    02-08-2016
Double post.....sorry!

Edited by General_pain_in_the_asp, 13 February 2019 - 11:17 PM.


RatPATROL_2014 #44 Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:37 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 84943 battles
  • 1,162
  • [THUMB]
  • Member since:
    07-01-2014
Ok pre determined out come of for mentioned battle to forthcome has a mistical feel of of a bunch 10# of doo doo in a five pound sac you know the outcome @ therefore explain to me how the mm is not rigged as opposed to me explaining to you how it is rigged @ maybe rig it to get me to spend money @ buy a crate never in a million years

BattChiefJoe241 #45 Posted 14 February 2019 - 03:01 AM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 10247 battles
  • 452
  • [MCFD]
  • Member since:
    12-02-2015

View PostABN_Bearcat, on 12 February 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

I play solo at tier 9 and I am bottom tier over 97% of the time. On top of it, I almost exclusively get the team with more 40% players than red does. I am sick of it. I am at the point of not quitting the game. I literally can't win with any consistency. I have more times now where I lose than win and it is virtually a steam roll every time.

 

I'm with you the same happens to me 5 wins in last 20 battles myAPCR shots boumce and I get penned

 



1017288795.png

General_pain_in_the_asp #46 Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:08 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 11030 battles
  • 174
  • [MOMB]
  • Member since:
    02-08-2016

View PostRatPATROL_2014, on 13 February 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

Ok pre determined out come of for mentioned battle to forthcome has a mistical feel of of a bunch 10# of doo doo in a five pound sac you know the outcome @ therefore explain to me how the mm is not rigged as opposed to me explaining to you how it is rigged @ maybe rig it to get me to spend money @ buy a crate never in a million years

 

I'm about to have an aneurysm.....someone please translate!!!

TO_Dominator #47 Posted 14 February 2019 - 01:34 PM

    Divine Punishment

  • Players
  • 11653 battles
  • 2,844
  • [YUKON]
  • Member since:
    09-26-2017

View PostRatPATROL_2014, on 14 February 2019 - 12:37 AM, said:

Ok pre determined out come of for mentioned battle to forthcome has a mistical feel of of a bunch 10# of doo doo in a five pound sac you know the outcome @ therefore explain to me how the mm is not rigged as opposed to me explaining to you how it is rigged @ maybe rig it to get me to spend money @ buy a crate never in a million years

 

View PostGeneral_pain_in_the_asp, on 14 February 2019 - 11:08 AM, said:

 

I'm about to have an aneurysm.....someone please translate!!!

It's translates into:

 

"I play like a mystical 5 pound sack of doo doo and it's all MM's fault that I lose. Maybe WG would give me only unicum teammates if I bought a crate but I'll never do that in a million years so I'll just sit here and whine."


Edited by TO_Dominator, 14 February 2019 - 01:34 PM.

"Blitz" can't exist within a world of TDs.

Icefang50 #48 Posted 14 February 2019 - 02:08 PM

    Endeavor to Persevere

  • Players
  • 34640 battles
  • 1,728
  • [-MAX-]
  • Member since:
    12-26-2014

View PostGeneral_pain_in_the_asp, on 13 February 2019 - 11:16 PM, said:

I don't know about 'rigged', but I know I am better in my mod 1 in my account with less than 5k battles than I am in my mod 1 in my account with 10k battles.....

 

This is a data point difficult to ignore. Is it statistically different?

 

”rigged” remains undefined, MM is certainly engineered to accomplish something (insert your simplistic or complex answer here). The suspicion that it’s no longer (or ever) balanced evenly among the player base has been confirmed by WG (I.e. players less than 5000 battles), but what other metrics are engineered remains speculation with increased skepticism. Players with many thousands of battles have started seeing an inbalance and started re-thinking previous beliefs on this topic. 


Thank you for contacting us. 

We are sorry to acknowledge that you've faced this issue, it will be fixed. If we can be of further assistance in any way, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kiser_Sosei #49 Posted 14 February 2019 - 02:40 PM

    Who is Kiser Sosei?!?

  • Players
  • 34092 battles
  • 1,547
  • [III-R]
  • Member since:
    11-12-2014
For those who wanted the Challenge Citation. See below.
 

Rigged - NO. Manipulated and NOT truly random - YES.

Most MMO games have a game balancing mechanic. Take it or leave it, no tin foil hat required. They are here to make the game exciting and to make money. It seems as of the last couple of updates they have made some large RNG rate adjustments.
 

Here is the original WG WOT mention of Challenge.   Its just keeping your head in the sand to think its different in Blitz.  "Challenge" and the MM patent is confirmed, not refuted, by WG staff. 

_______________________________________________________

Wayne Cartwright 27 September 2013 09:52 (name withheld)

Dear v*********1, (name withheld)

Thank you for your reply.

I apologize that I did not get to your ticket yesterday.

We do not fully need the old replays as (name withheld) let me know he went through your chat logs for the past 2 months. As said before however, we are not allowed to disclose what punishments are handed to players.

The only thing we would need replays for is to investigate physics abuse. (like a teammate pushing you into water so you drown etc)

As for the patent regarding the matchmaker, this does state that:

“According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range.”

This does not mean that the matchmaker “Rigs” games, it just means that the better a player is doing, the more of a challenge they are presented with and ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team.

We see this in many games, and it is not there to force a player to lose, but simply to provide a challenge. Here are some examples:

-In Mario Kart, when you are in last place you have a high probability to gain a bullet powerup or red shell, however if you are in first place you have a higher probability to get bananas.

-In Tera, when one team captures the flag against another team, the team who had their flag captures is granted a “loser buff” that makes them more powerful for a determined time.

-In Final Fantasy XIV, if your group wipes while attempting to kill an enemy monster, the group is then granted an aura buff to make the next battle a little easier.

I hope this clears up any confusion and rumors being spread about our matchmaking system.

Please let me know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Wayne Cartwright

Wargaming America Support Service 

_____________________________________
Original Patent Language

 

Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

_________________________________

Edited by Kiser_Sosei, 14 February 2019 - 02:42 PM.

"MM may not be rigged but RNGesus only answers the prayers of one team."
My WOTB Youtube Channel.

https://www.blitzsta...com/Kiser_Sosei


_Cletus #50 Posted 14 February 2019 - 03:07 PM

    Voodoo Wizard

  • Players
  • 27008 battles
  • 5,888
  • [HAHA]
  • Member since:
    04-03-2016

View PostKiser_Sosei, on 14 February 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

For those who wanted the Challenge Citation. See below.
 

Rigged - NO. Manipulated and NOT truly random - YES.

Most MMO games have a game balancing mechanic. Take it or leave it, no tin foil hat required. They are here to make the game exciting and to make money. It seems as of the last couple of updates they have made some large RNG rate adjustments.
 

Here is the original WG WOT mention of Challenge.   Its just keeping your head in the sand to think its different in Blitz.  "Challenge" and the MM patent is confirmed, not refuted, by WG staff. 

_______________________________________________________

Wayne Cartwright 27 September 2013 09:52 (name withheld)

Dear v*********1, (name withheld)

Thank you for your reply.

I apologize that I did not get to your ticket yesterday.

We do not fully need the old replays as (name withheld) let me know he went through your chat logs for the past 2 months. As said before however, we are not allowed to disclose what punishments are handed to players.

The only thing we would need replays for is to investigate physics abuse. (like a teammate pushing you into water so you drown etc)

As for the patent regarding the matchmaker, this does state that:

“According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range.”

This does not mean that the matchmaker “Rigs” games, it just means that the better a player is doing, the more of a challenge they are presented with and ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team.

We see this in many games, and it is not there to force a player to lose, but simply to provide a challenge. Here are some examples:

-In Mario Kart, when you are in last place you have a high probability to gain a bullet powerup or red shell, however if you are in first place you have a higher probability to get bananas.

-In Tera, when one team captures the flag against another team, the team who had their flag captures is granted a “loser buff” that makes them more powerful for a determined time.

-In Final Fantasy XIV, if your group wipes while attempting to kill an enemy monster, the group is then granted an aura buff to make the next battle a little easier.

I hope this clears up any confusion and rumors being spread about our matchmaking system.

Please let me know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Wayne Cartwright

Wargaming America Support Service 

_____________________________________
Original Patent Language

 

Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

_________________________________

 

Maybe MM is just screwing up then.  I understand the "rubber band" method they use [or that they could be using] where if you're winning you get tougher matches and if you're losing you get easier matches.  But I've been losing a lot for a long time, if they are using that method and it's not messing up then I should be getting lots of easy matches right now.  I am not.

Dark_Magician_Girl, on 07 February 2020 - 08:59 PM, said:

Please show us on the doll where MM touched you

 

Avatar and graphics by crpl_hicks

 

 

ABN_Bearcat #51 Posted 14 February 2019 - 04:47 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 41216 battles
  • 880
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013
This is the bullsheet in the reply from Wayne,  "ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team". IMO this is a "rigged" matchmaking approach, because the poorer you do the worse your teammates get; thus, it becomes harder for you to win. All I can say to this is that this is broken. Plain and simple.


Kiser_Sosei #52 Posted 14 February 2019 - 05:24 PM

    Who is Kiser Sosei?!?

  • Players
  • 34092 battles
  • 1,547
  • [III-R]
  • Member since:
    11-12-2014

View PostABN_Bearcat, on 14 February 2019 - 10:47 AM, said:

This is the bullsheet in the reply from Wayne,  "ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team". IMO this is a "rigged" matchmaking approach, because the poorer you do the worse your teammates get; thus, it becomes harder for you to win. All I can say to this is that this is broken. Plain and simple.

 

Now you know why sometimes it only take a 2 seconds to get matched vs 90 seconds. Even when the que is made up of the same amount of players. My theory is that MM is preparing a whole team that is slated to get some RNG nerfs.

"MM may not be rigged but RNGesus only answers the prayers of one team."
My WOTB Youtube Channel.

https://www.blitzsta...com/Kiser_Sosei


krietenstein34 #53 Posted 14 February 2019 - 05:26 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 31318 battles
  • 2,133
  • [HAHA]
  • Member since:
    01-03-2015
After last night.....   .55 down.   41.20 WR over last 233 games. 
:girl:

ABN_Bearcat #54 Posted 15 February 2019 - 12:38 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 41216 battles
  • 880
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013

View PostKiser_Sosei, on 14 February 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

 

Now you know why sometimes it only take a 2 seconds to get matched vs 90 seconds. Even when the que is made up of the same amount of players. My theory is that MM is preparing a whole team that is slated to get some RNG nerfs.

 

Yes, and based upon Wayne's statement the MM is "rigged". They don't use that explicit word, but it is. If MM is taking into consideration your wins and losses at a given tier and then matching you according to that information, then MM is rigged. Win too much and MM "rigs" the teams to increase your chances of losing. Lose too much and MM "rigs" the teams to increase your chances to win. However, I don't think it actually helps you win if your team is made up of players that are on a losing streak, because they may just be bad players. The fact that win rate is being factored into the MM algorithm in any way "rigs" the result of team construction and in the end biases the outcome of the match. 


Abrams_Army #55 Posted 15 February 2019 - 01:50 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 34656 battles
  • 222
  • [III-Z]
  • Member since:
    07-06-2014

View Post_Weeping_Angel_, on 13 February 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

 

If it was rigged, Boris would always be on YOUR team.  :facepalm:

 

 

In order to be rigged then it has to be against and individual.  If everyone is facing the same algorithm then it is not rigged. Have they handicapped the good players with their latest tinkering?  Yes indeed, but everyone is facing that same algorithm so it is not rigged.  You are better off calling it skewed or broken as it is currently running than rigged.  I have lost almost .1 in my WR since they messed with the algorithm and have over 45k games.  My WR tanked as I tried to figure out how to handle the teams I was getting set up with.  I have figured it out for the most part and now have my recent WR back up close to 60% and am working on recovering from that bad stretch.

 

Weeping,

     If I may ask, what did you figure out regarding handling the teams you are given?  :hiding:  I would love to know as I struggle with many of the teams I am given when I solo.  Tiers IX and X can be very frustrating for me, especially X, when I get 2-3 low 40%er WRers in their E100s and IS-4s rolling out and firing 1,2 or no shots at the enemy for paltry (or zero) damage.  I have been striving to get to 60% WR for closing in on 2 years and feel like I am no closer.  It feels like I am on the Blitz WR hamster wheel.... :mellow:


Not everyone can be a unicom in this game. That being said, be a help to your team as best you can. If you're not an asset, then you're a liability. 

Community Pledge signer

 

Wf3jmBQ.png

 

 

ABN_Bearcat #56 Posted 15 February 2019 - 02:43 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 41216 battles
  • 880
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013

View Post_Weeping_Angel_, on 13 February 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

If it was rigged, Boris would always be on YOUR team.  :facepalm:

 

 

In order to be rigged then it has to be against and individual.  If everyone is facing the same algorithm then it is not rigged. Have they handicapped the good players with their latest tinkering?  Yes indeed, but everyone is facing that same algorithm so it is not rigged.  You are better off calling it skewed or broken as it is currently running than rigged.  I have lost almost .1 in my WR since they messed with the algorithm and have over 45k games.  My WR tanked as I tried to figure out how to handle the teams I was getting set up with.  I have figured it out for the most part and now have my recent WR back up close to 60% and am working on recovering from that bad stretch.

 

"Have they handicapped the good players with their latest tinkering?  Yes indeed, but everyone is facing that same algorithm so it is not rigged." By your own admission the MM is rigged, because if you are a good player you face a "handicap" that other players do not; thus, good players are having the odds/RNG stacked against them. This is broken, because prior to the "tinkering" everyone had the same opportunity to do well and become a good player. Now good players are being punished for their skill within the game. I would like to know how you have "handled" these teams and this new broken MM.


Edited by ABN_Bearcat, 15 February 2019 - 04:00 PM.


Duke_87 #57 Posted 15 February 2019 - 02:52 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 32646 battles
  • 1,510
  • [MOM]
  • Member since:
    07-05-2014
If it’s rigged, we all struggle with the same rigging (at least within a certain peer group), so...

Eh

Goal: Suck incrementally less, day by day


ABN_Bearcat #58 Posted 15 February 2019 - 03:59 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 41216 battles
  • 880
  • Member since:
    11-16-2013

View PostDuke_87, on 15 February 2019 - 09:52 AM, said:

If it’s rigged, we all struggle with the same rigging (at least within a certain peer group), so...

Eh

 

Not necessarily, see my post just above your post.


HappySoul #59 Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:00 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Players
  • 19967 battles
  • 43
  • [BZO]
  • Member since:
    12-13-2015

Everything OTHER THAN COMPLETELY RANDOM = RIGGED

 

No matter how you twist the words but procedure of deliberately putting a player in a team that has either more or less chances to win based on certain factors associated with the player past performance (battle count, win rate etc)  is RIGGING. 


Edited by HappySoul, 15 February 2019 - 04:11 PM.


ThaJuggla817 #60 Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:01 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Players
  • 8051 battles
  • 62
  • [420SS]
  • Member since:
    04-13-2017

View PostHappySoul, on 15 February 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

Everything OTHER THAN COMPLETELY RANDOM = RIGGED

 

No matter how you twist the words but procedure of deliberately putting a player in a team that has either more or less chances to win based on certain factors associated with the player past performance (battle count, win rate etc)  is RIGGING. 

 

 

Then your solution is simple. Uninstall.

 

  I grow tired of hearing this cry about "rigged". Lol. If you DO NOT LIKE THE WAY YOU ARE TREATED, WHY STAY? That's like being in an abusive relationship and staying with the aggressor and saying, "but I love him/her" and all that. That is basically, exactly, what you are coming off as. So again  if you don't like it rigged and want to come here day after day and whine about it, cry about it like a sniveling little child, then please  by all means  take your shiny ball and go home to mommy. You are sitting here crying like WG REALLY cares. XD

 

If any one of you whom make this argument would just uninstall and boycott WG, the rest of us would be just fine and content with that. It'd be much quieter and probably less salt to boot. It's absolutely ludicrous to sit here and whine day after day about things YOU HAVE ZERO CONTROL OVER. Jesus  maybe you need to go find a twelve step program or some self help book. 







Also tagged with matchmaker

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users