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I get the feeling that matchmaker is rigged

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HappySoul #61 Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

 

Then your solution is simple. Uninstall.

 

  I grow tired of hearing this cry about "rigged". Lol. If you DO NOT LIKE THE WAY YOU ARE TREATED, WHY STAY? That's like being in an abusive relationship and staying with the aggressor and saying, "but I love him/her" and all that. That is basically, exactly, what you are coming off as. So again  if you don't like it rigged and want to come here day after day and whine about it, cry about it like a sniveling little child, then please  by all means  take your shiny ball and go home to mommy. You are sitting here crying like WG REALLY cares. XD

 

If any one of you whom make this argument would just uninstall and boycott WG, the rest of us would be just fine and content with that. It'd be much quieter and probably less salt to boot. It's absolutely ludicrous to sit here and whine day after day about things YOU HAVE ZERO CONTROL OVER. Jesus  maybe you need to go find a twelve step program or some self help book. 

 

this seems to be approach many people are taking and the reason why game losing it popularity ... as for your suggestion there is a less radical and more practical response to it -> do not buy ingame goods. When I play this game free then "price is right" even MM is rigged.

 

When I spend 25$ on a tank (dracula) and have 42% wr in it after 60 battles because my teams are completely screwed it does hurt a bit and make me feel like a fool who was just scammed.  


Edited by HappySoul, 15 February 2019 - 05:29 PM.


ABN_Bearcat #62 Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:37 PM

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View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

 

Then your solution is simple. Uninstall.

 

  I grow tired of hearing this cry about "rigged". Lol. If you DO NOT LIKE THE WAY YOU ARE TREATED, WHY STAY? That's like being in an abusive relationship and staying with the aggressor and saying, "but I love him/her" and all that. That is basically, exactly, what you are coming off as. So again  if you don't like it rigged and want to come here day after day and whine about it, cry about it like a sniveling little child, then please  by all means  take your shiny ball and go home to mommy. You are sitting here crying like WG REALLY cares. XD

 

If any one of you whom make this argument would just uninstall and boycott WG, the rest of us would be just fine and content with that. It'd be much quieter and probably less salt to boot. It's absolutely ludicrous to sit here and whine day after day about things YOU HAVE ZERO CONTROL OVER. Jesus  maybe you need to go find a twelve step program or some self help book. 

 

It does not appear as though you have read through all of the posts. Also, you are the one with all of the "salt" and venom for no real reason. You are also not following your own advice. If you don't like the discussion here that don't participate. You are being a troll for no reason. 


In terms of the "whining" as you call it. Things don't change if people just stay quiet and put their head in the sand. It is only through mutually respectful discussion that change can happen. This is the reason this forum exists and is not limited to this game.


Edited by ABN_Bearcat, 15 February 2019 - 05:37 PM.


4sfield #63 Posted 15 February 2019 - 05:49 PM

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View PostKiser_Sosei, on 14 February 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

For those who wanted the Challenge Citation. See below.
 

Rigged - NO. Manipulated and NOT truly random - YES.

Most MMO games have a game balancing mechanic. Take it or leave it, no tin foil hat required. They are here to make the game exciting and to make money. It seems as of the last couple of updates they have made some large RNG rate adjustments.
 

Here is the original WG WOT mention of Challenge.   Its just keeping your head in the sand to think its different in Blitz.  "Challenge" and the MM patent is confirmed, not refuted, by WG staff. 

_______________________________________________________

Wayne Cartwright 27 September 2013 09:52 (name withheld)

Dear v*********1, (name withheld)

Thank you for your reply.

I apologize that I did not get to your ticket yesterday.

We do not fully need the old replays as (name withheld) let me know he went through your chat logs for the past 2 months. As said before however, we are not allowed to disclose what punishments are handed to players.

The only thing we would need replays for is to investigate physics abuse. (like a teammate pushing you into water so you drown etc)

As for the patent regarding the matchmaker, this does state that:

“According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range.”

This does not mean that the matchmaker “Rigs” games, it just means that the better a player is doing, the more of a challenge they are presented with and ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team.

We see this in many games, and it is not there to force a player to lose, but simply to provide a challenge. Here are some examples:

-In Mario Kart, when you are in last place you have a high probability to gain a bullet powerup or red shell, however if you are in first place you have a higher probability to get bananas.

-In Tera, when one team captures the flag against another team, the team who had their flag captures is granted a “loser buff” that makes them more powerful for a determined time.

-In Final Fantasy XIV, if your group wipes while attempting to kill an enemy monster, the group is then granted an aura buff to make the next battle a little easier.

I hope this clears up any confusion and rumors being spread about our matchmaking system.

Please let me know how it goes.

Best Regards,

Wayne Cartwright

Wargaming America Support Service 

_____________________________________
Original Patent Language

 

Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

_________________________________

 

  What I want to know is, what defines a challenge? 

 

  It’s a challenge to win with the 6 permatards you’re dealt every game even without weighted mm. What justifies them making it even harder beyond that? This doesn’t affect the guys who don’t win as much one bit, what makes it fair for the guys that can? 

 

  And finally, if they’re doing this with mm what’s keeping them from doing it with RNG? That was tweaked quite a few updates ago and the numbers were widened. That on it’s own has made it harder for everyone to carry. When your shots don’t fly where you aim you can’t hit where your aiming and the results are more bounces and misses. Why do we need weighted mm and widened RNG? 

 

  What about the low damage rolls? It seems to me the values were widened for this as well. What’s keeping them from controlling g this as well? We all have those games where we get several penetrating shots for no damage, it sucks. It sure doesn’t make it any easier to win. 

 

  With the changes that have been made to game mechanics the weighted mm is too much. It’s driving guys away and creating an antagonistic environment. To be fair, things should be the same for everyone.

 

  Forcing a handicap on the guys that can play is like a money game at the golf course. I don’t mind it there because I’ve got to give the skrubs a chance to have fun and be competitive. When I play on Sunday afternoon with the rest of the studs we don’t give shots and If you want to play with us you don’t get shots. If you want shots, you go to the doctor. Most golfers don’t utilize the handicap system anyway because they aren’t serious enough to play events or tournaments where it comes into play. They’re just out there relaxing and having fun. 

 

  Weighted mm is akin to putting a lead core in Brice Harper’s bat, forcing Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander and Chris Sale to pitch with a larger diameter ball, and making Lebron wear ankle weights. It isn’t going to be fun for them and they’re going to be the 1st ones complaining about it when they find out they’re being made do it. I’d say it would make them all want to quit or at least hire a lawyer. It’s not their fault they are good players, why would it be fair for them to be forced down to everyone else’s level? They worked hard to get where they are, to have an edge, to be the best they can be. Why shouldn’t they be rewarded for that by at least keeping it the same for everyone else as it is for them?


 

Snowflakes - 1, Good Guys - 0

 

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richdubz #64 Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:28 PM

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View PostABN_Bearcat, on 14 February 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

This is the bullsheet in the reply from Wayne,  "ultimately the results of a battle still are in control of the players and now well they perform with their team". IMO this is a "rigged" matchmaking approach, because the poorer you do the worse your teammates get; thus, it becomes harder for you to win. All I can say to this is that this is broken. Plain and simple.

 

I’ve always felt that the rigged MM paranoia conspiracy theory thing was complete nonsense, but lately I’m thinking that the truth might be just the opposite.  If I’ve been stinking for several battles, I’ll finally start getting some good teammates.  It’s as if MM says, “Dude, you’ve suffered enough, so here are some good teams to help you along.”  Now if I’ve been doing well or had a couple of great games in a row, MM turns around and says, “Hey, jerk. I’ve decided to give your next six red teams PRAMO and WEAK toons to teach you a lesson about trying to do well.”  I realize it’s probably just the law of averages at work, but it’s happening both ways in streaks and often enough to make me wonder.

Edited by richdubz, 15 February 2019 - 07:31 PM.

 


1oldgrouch #65 Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:35 PM

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Wow. Another thread about the MM being rigged? The only complaint I personally have is I keep getting stuck on teams with people who are in school. Many go AFK due to school demands. 
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ABN_Bearcat #66 Posted 15 February 2019 - 09:30 PM

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View Post1oldgrouch, on 15 February 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

Wow. Another thread about the MM being rigged? The only complaint I personally have is I keep getting stuck on teams with people who are in school. Many go AFK due to school demands. 

 

Read all of the posts, and your view may change.


ThaJuggla817 #67 Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:07 PM

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View PostHappySoul, on 15 February 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

this seems to be approach many people are taking and the reason why game losing it popularity ... as for your suggestion there is a less radical and more practical response to it -> do not buy ingame goods. When I play this game free then "price is right" even MM is rigged.

 

When I spend 25$ on a tank (dracula) and have 42% wr in it after 60 battles because my teams are completely screwed it does hurt a bit and make me feel like a fool who was just scammed.  

 

Reasonable response and I totally agree. But what good is coming to the forums to complain about it and crying about how the game is "rigged"? Every day there's approximately 2-3 new threads about how the game is rigged and this and that. The forum is where the complaint comes to die. No one with proper authority to make a difference in the mm/rng curse is going to come to the forums and see the dozens upon dozens of complaints. Write a ticket. Join that class action lawsuit against WG. Do something proactive to make a difference in the problem, not just come here and vent. No one here can help you in that regard. If all you can do is complain about it, no one wants to hear it 9 different threads later. That's what I am saying. If that's all you can do, then uninstall the game and move on. 



ThaJuggla817 #68 Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:12 PM

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View PostABN_Bearcat, on 15 February 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

 

It does not appear as though you have read through all of the posts. Also, you are the one with all of the "salt" and venom for no real reason. You are also not following your own advice. If you don't like the discussion here that don't participate. You are being a troll for no reason. 


In terms of the "whining" as you call it. Things don't change if people just stay quiet and put their head in the sand. It is only through mutually respectful discussion that change can happen. This is the reason this forum exists and is not limited to this game.

Every day there's approximately 2-3 new threads about how the game is rigged and this and that. The forum is where the complaint comes to die. No one with proper authority to make a difference in the mm/rng curse is going to come to the forums and see the dozens upon dozens of complaints. Write a ticket. Join that class action lawsuit against WG. Do something proactive to make a difference in the problem, not just come here and vent. No one here can help you in that regard. If all you can do is complain about it, no one wants to hear it 9 different threads later. That's what I am saying. If that's all you can do, then stop being a girl, uninstall the game and move on. Devs don't come here to hear your opinions. Odds are that they don't at all, and IF they do, guess what? They still don't care. So yes, after 9 different threads on this topic, it's old news. If Devs were going to fix it, don't you think that it would be done already? How many updates have gone by so far and pretty much just business as usual. As far as venom and salt, yeah, 9 different threads later  same complaints and its evolved into whining..



HappySoul #69 Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:17 PM

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View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 10:07 PM, said:

 

Reasonable response and I totally agree. But what good is coming to the forums to complain about it and crying about how the game is "rigged"? Every day there's approximately 2-3 new threads about how the game is rigged and this and that. The forum is where the complaint comes to die. No one with proper authority to make a difference in the mm/rng curse is going to come to the forums and see the dozens upon dozens of complaints. Write a ticket. Join that class action lawsuit against WG. Do something proactive to make a difference in the problem, not just come here and vent. No one here can help you in that regard. If all you can do is complain about it, no one wants to hear it 9 different threads later. That's what I am saying. If that's all you can do, then uninstall the game and move on. 

 

not like it is totally my business but somehow I feel that we still live in a relatively free country where despite many things be considered not politically correct it is still allowed to talk about such matters as in game mechanics. I would probably be ok if you suggest me not to talk about high taxes or fked up government but suggesting me to avoid talking about in game items is a bit of overreach. if you are not particularly interested why not to skip the topic rather than asking people to not create threads that would harm your brain as if your were forced to read it.

ThaJuggla817 #70 Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:39 PM

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View PostHappySoul, on 15 February 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

 

not like it is totally my business but somehow I feel that we still live in a relatively free country where despite many things be considered not politically correct it is still allowed to talk about such matters as in game mechanics. I would probably be ok if you suggest me not to talk about high taxes or fked up government but suggesting me to avoid talking about in game items is a bit of overreach. if you are not particularly interested why not to skip the topic rather than asking people to not create threads that would harm your brain as if your were forced to read it.

 

It's not the point of me telling someone what to do. Read the details, please. It's the fact that there's already existing threads on the matter. After the third thread, the same complaints get old. What's that kid who keeps posting about muting in game chat? Uav pro or some crap? What you described saying I'm doing is him. But to speculate that WG.net is out to get you when it's happening to everyone, pay to play or free gamers, with prejudice, that's just absolutely frustrating. Then to come here, and I totally understand venting, but 3 different threads within the first two pages? How about bumping threads? How about writing tickets to support ? Actually doing proactive measures towards an end game/solution. Mm/rng is technically a game physics, yes, but to continue to moan and groan like the solution is here? It's not. I promise. WG.net has their own ideas and agenda. They're not coming here for troubleshooting or grievances. They're not coming here at all... Tickets. That's how you can make a difference. That's how a solution can be found.



1oldgrouch #71 Posted 15 February 2019 - 10:45 PM

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View PostABN_Bearcat, on 15 February 2019 - 09:30 PM, said:

 

Read all of the posts, and your view may change.

So what are you saying? have I complained about the MM being rigged? Simply bein stuck at low tier sure as hell isn't a sign  the MM is rigged at all. It is just bad luck and some bad timing. I don't like it but that is the way the ball bounces. Some machines handle the next higher tier better than others. I have found that tier 8 can compete with tier 9 very well and for the most part, tier 9 can hold their own at their 10. 

 


Edited by 1oldgrouch, 15 February 2019 - 10:51 PM.

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Wattsey17 #72 Posted 16 February 2019 - 02:56 AM

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Another mm rigged thread. If only there was a whole pinned thread devoted to this kind of talk.

ThaJuggla817 #73 Posted 16 February 2019 - 04:20 AM

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Bump again. Making a point. 

ThaJuggla817 #74 Posted 16 February 2019 - 04:38 AM

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View PostWattsey17, on 16 February 2019 - 02:56 AM, said:

Another mm rigged thread. If only there was a whole pinned thread devoted to this kind of talk.

 

Fcking thank you! That's my nature of [edited]! Like, why make several independent threads about this and continue complaining about this like someone really gives a [edited]! If the devs cared enough to come to the forums  then 99.9% of the problems would just *disappear*, but they don't. It just amplifies.

Man_Man_MM #75 Posted 16 February 2019 - 09:57 AM

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View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

Then your MY solution is simple. Uninstall. If I don't like this thread, just quit the forum.

 

 You are I am sitting here crying like WG other people REALLY care. XD

 

Tickets. That's how you I can make a difference. That's how a solution can be found

 

I fixed it for you.

 

This thread is fine as it is.

 

making a point. X2.

 

 

 


Edited by Man_Man_MM, 16 February 2019 - 10:16 AM.


ABN_Bearcat #76 Posted 16 February 2019 - 01:07 PM

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View Post1oldgrouch, on 15 February 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

So what are you saying? have I complained about the MM being rigged? Simply bein stuck at low tier sure as hell isn't a sign  the MM is rigged at all. It is just bad luck and some bad timing. I don't like it but that is the way the ball bounces. Some machines handle the next higher tier better than others. I have found that tier 8 can compete with tier 9 very well and for the most part, tier 9 can hold their own at their 10. 

 

 

No, but you make it sound as if what is being discussed here is just based on opinion of perceived unfair bias in the game when the fact is that someone from WG has admitted to MM intentionally biasing teams based upon win loss rates. See the very long post from Kiser_Sosei earlier in this thread.

 

View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

 

It's not the point of me telling someone what to do. Read the details, please. It's the fact that there's already existing threads on the matter. After the third thread, the same complaints get old. What's that kid who keeps posting about muting in game chat? Uav pro or some crap? What you described saying I'm doing is him. But to speculate that WG.net is out to get you when it's happening to everyone, pay to play or free gamers, with prejudice, that's just absolutely frustrating. Then to come here, and I totally understand venting, but 3 different threads within the first two pages? How about bumping threads? How about writing tickets to support ? Actually doing proactive measures towards an end game/solution. Mm/rng is technically a game physics, yes, but to continue to moan and groan like the solution is here? It's not. I promise. WG.net has their own ideas and agenda. They're not coming here for troubleshooting or grievances. They're not coming here at all... Tickets. That's how you can make a difference. That's how a solution can be found.

 

View PostThaJuggla817, on 15 February 2019 - 11:38 PM, said:

 

Fcking thank you! That's my nature of [edited]! Like, why make several independent threads about this and continue complaining about this like someone really gives a [edited]! If the devs cared enough to come to the forums  then 99.9% of the problems would just *disappear*, but they don't. It just amplifies.

 

I like how you pick and choose which comments to address, but ignore others so not to contradict your own advice/position. I also like how you whine about people whining as you see it, but somehow it is okay for you to do it. If you don't like these threads, then do something about it, stop posting to them, or visiting the forum altogether. Practice what you preach, be proactive and create a "pinned" thread/discussion. As far as people coming here to discuss such things as "rigged" MM, that is what the forum is for. It let's people determine the validity of what they perceive as happening or being changed in the game. For the case of "rigged" MM, there is validity to it. If you don't believe that then go read the first post by Kiser. Lastly, as far as no one listening, I disagree. I do think WG see these forums in some manner or another, because I was here through the spare parts debacle. Spare parts were removed, because people continuously "complained" about it. 


Edited by ABN_Bearcat, 16 February 2019 - 04:41 PM.


_Crusader6_ #77 Posted 16 February 2019 - 07:21 PM

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It’s very interesting to see swings in WR etc.  

  One significant issue we all face individually is that we the individual player is but 1/14th of a battle. 

WG has claimed for sometime that the Patent they have for MM isn’t in use in Blitz. 

  But not that some aspects of it aren’t in use. 

 

As I write this my 30 day is over 73% and my avg tier is 8.97 

 1)  I find in the last few months when I play longer stretches I lose more than usual. 

  2)  Also when I toon with regular platoon partners (like AbnBearCat) we often don’t win an expected amount.  

 3) When I toon with a player I haven’t played with in a long time we can get ridiculously long win streaks (like 22 games in 8+)

 4) If I voice toon with someone, we win around 70%+

 

If it was simply #1 then I would put some down to fatigue or overconfidence.  

With #2 and 3 factored in, it does seem to make me believe at this point there is some weighting to teams going on.  

  However it’s also possible that with #2 there is some overconfidence, and with #3 you can be vastly more attentive due to not playing with that person in a while.   When you factor in #4, you need to figure that whatever weighting if any can be overcome the majority of the time by a skilled team using voice communications to adapt better than non voice teams can.   

 

Lets face it, the playerbase isn’t evolving, 80% of them can barely move out of spawn, and another 10% can’t aim and drive st the same time.  Also with RNG some best plannned moves can end in abject failure at times.   

 

 

Best advice - don’t play angry.   

 

 

 

 

 



 
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djinnnx #78 Posted 17 February 2019 - 04:35 AM

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I have now uninstalled the game - even though it used to be my favorite game - I am also someone that has regularly supported the game by buying gold - I can easily afford it and would have been a supporter for a long time.

 

No more.

 

I believe that the matchmaker rigging has reached a level that I personally find intolerable. I have come to believe that in at least 60-80% of games that I play (maybe even more) my contributions do not influence the outcome at all. The game's outcome has been already decided by the matchmaker in order to maximize Wargaming's Profit. The matchmaker will put together teams and provide them with boosts to win the match one way or another. This is why a "unicum", a player who may be orders of magnitude more skilled than the regular player base has a win rate of only  (20% more, 2 of 10 games out 10 played) when compared to complete noobs. What other game would show this type of skew?

 

I work in data analytics and I am fairly well versed in statistical analysis - the observed outcomes clearly follow patterns where you are placed on the "good" side or "bad" side. That's how you end up with 10 game long winning streaks followed by 10 game long losing streaks. The chances of that happening randomly (and back to back) are extremely low less than one in a milllion. I had win streaks like that several times in the last year, I had streaks of over 20 wins in  a row, had 7 killed the other team... let me assure you, I am nowhere near that good.

 

The picture will make sense once you understand that winning/losing for Wargaming is a resource. When you lose, you provide entertainment to another player (the one that wins) - you are the "fun" resource that they are in the business of providing. Because the game is "free" you are paying for it by being the "punching bag" of the other team. As long as you don't understand this it is all fun - once you realize that you don't matter, it is a lot harder to raise enthusiasm.

 

I believe that in the past few months the rigging has increased and reached what is an intolerable level for me. I am not willing to put up with it no more.

 

I also believe that the company is engaged in the most sophisticated manipulation techniques that you can imagine, we are constantly being subjected to various tests and effects to see who quits when, who buys what when: let's make this guy lose 25 in a row, does he buy more gold? etc it is a Russian company, with probably minimial ethics oversight. Again that may or may not matter to you - it is all a matter of personal tolerance. 


Edited by djinnnx, 17 February 2019 - 04:40 AM.


Hbreezy #79 Posted 17 February 2019 - 05:31 AM

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Yep, this B.S. RNG and MM  .  Wonder why there is so much rage in chat  and on the forum.  

Hbreezy #80 Posted 17 February 2019 - 05:39 AM

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Hey Ribblestrip, tell your overlords they really XXXX the bed. Im 48 years old and i know im the avg.seal. but your latest MM and RNG algo suks XXX

 







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