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Penetration RNG changes


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RommelTanker #1 Posted 15 March 2019 - 04:54 AM

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So, I've read that penetration RNG is being tweaked so that its variance now goes +5%/-5%.

 

What people need to remember is that reducing penetration RNG variance means that your chances of getting a lucky penetrating roll are also reduced. Congratulations diehard FV215b 183 mains, your HESH rounds can no longer get lucky lolpens through Maus turret cheeks. See the problem here? As great as a change is, you guys are so blinded by bad stuff that you can't see the good. Remember the golden days of +25% pen RNG where a KV-2's HE shell could penetrate the rear armor of a Tiger 1? So do I, but they can't anymore because pen RNG got berfed.

 

Cry about things that matter instead of numbers, like the terrible playerbase or the fact that certain tanks are still broken op cough helsing


FlammeumDraco333 #2 Posted 15 March 2019 - 05:49 AM

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I personally miss +-25% RNG. Lots more fun that way.

View PostSystemrename, on 03 February 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Whatever, since people seem content with the plain oleophobic coating and dragging their meaty, calloused workman's thumbs around like proto-lizards sliding up out of the primordial ooze onto dry land, it's just more for me.  I'm happy to float on fiber and run circles around you filthy casuals. Eat my dust, snail thumbs.

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4sfield #3 Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:17 AM

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View PostFlammeumDraco333, on 15 March 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

I personally miss +-25% RNG. Lots more fun that way.

 

  There was nothing wrong with +/-25, it made most of your shots pen and avg damage from those shots was pretty close game in and game out. When they narrowed it to 15, we all lost a potential 10% of pen and damage for each shell depending on the roll. This is why things suck right now. The range is too close, instead of seeing more pens and bigger damage we see lower pen numbers and less avg  damage. Narrowing to +/-5 will weaken vehicles and make the game even more campy. 

 

  WTH are they doing? This isn’t rocket science, it’s supposed to be fun and not like work. I don’t want to throw handfuls if gravel against the sides of heavies with my mediums and I want to be able to shoot weak spots on them from the front. What they’re doing is making it worse than it already is. We’ve already been through this and they want to take more? WTH for? It doesn’t make any sense unless you look at it from a in survivability standpoint. It sure will make it tougher for those mediums to be effective against tanks with armor unless they all get a pen buff. 

 

  I don’t like it, I smell nubs.


 

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minitel_NA #4 Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:20 AM

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+-25 was like that big mama going clubbing wit da girls on a Saturday night.

Makes u all excited and want to shoot all u got right away. AcT quick ! No time to aim !

Though it’s not always guarantee what u gonna get...

 

Total removal of rng is like seeing that same girl under the fluorescent lamps on the next day.

 

meh. Is there something on tv ?


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4sfield #5 Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:26 AM

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  It’s gonna weaken the tanks that already have weak pen. It’s gonna force a change in playstyle and it’s gonna be harder to carry with everything that has an anemic gun. There are enough tanks in the game currently that can’t stand on there own. They should be looking to improve things instead of penalizing the guys that have a grip already and have outgrown slow boring tanks. 

 

  This is not a good thing unless it comes with a medium/light gun buff across the board. Even at that, heavies are still gonna pen you the only thing that’ll change will be they won’t have that extra pen for the other heavies and won’t lose as much pen in a low roll. 

 

  This change makes no godam sense with balance in its current state.

 

  


 

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Chariot_Solace #6 Posted 15 March 2019 - 08:13 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 15 March 2019 - 12:17 AM, said:

 

  There was nothing wrong with +/-25, it made most of your shots pen and avg damage from those shots was pretty close game in and game out. When they narrowed it to 15, we all lost a potential 10% of pen and damage for each shell depending on the roll. This is why things suck right now. The range is too close, instead of seeing more pens and bigger damage we see lower pen numbers and less avg  damage. Narrowing to +/-5 will weaken vehicles and make the game even more campy. 

 

  WTH are they doing? This isn’t rocket science, it’s supposed to be fun and not like work. I don’t want to throw handfuls if gravel against the sides of heavies with my mediums and I want to be able to shoot weak spots on them from the front. What they’re doing is making it worse than it already is. We’ve already been through this and they want to take more? WTH for? It doesn’t make any sense unless you look at it from a in survivability standpoint. It sure will make it tougher for those mediums to be effective against tanks with armor unless they all get a pen buff. 

 

  I don’t like it, I smell nubs.

 

The % fluctuation range change only applies to penetration. Min and max damage rolls will remain unchanged. All this means is shots will hardly ever bounce off of grey, vulnerable armor plates. Penetration will become more consistent. If you aim well, you’ll be rewarded. All this doom and gloom is nonsense.

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I_Maverick_I #7 Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:05 AM

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View PostChariot_Solace, on 15 March 2019 - 12:13 AM, said:

 

The % fluctuation range change only applies to penetration. Min and max damage rolls will remain unchanged. All this means is shots will hardly ever bounce off of grey, vulnerable armor plates. Penetration will become more consistent. If you aim well, you’ll be rewarded. All this doom and gloom is nonsense.

 

^^

 

4sfield, this is reduction of RNG for penetration. The only way this would hurt players is if they are consistently shooting at red-ish armor. The odds of being able to penetrate through red armor is now basically impossible, which is fine, because if someone is shooting at red armor on purpose in the first place, they have another bigger issue. 



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I_Maverick_I #8 Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:07 AM

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View PostRommelTanker, on 14 March 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

So, I've read that penetration RNG is being tweaked so that its variance now goes +5%/-5%.

 

What people need to remember is that reducing penetration RNG variance means that your chances of getting a lucky penetrating roll are also reduced. Congratulations diehard FV215b 183 mains, your HESH rounds can no longer get lucky lolpens through Maus turret cheeks. See the problem here? As great as a change is, you guys are so blinded by bad stuff that you can't see the good. Remember the golden days of +25% pen RNG where a KV-2's HE shell could penetrate the rear armor of a Tiger 1? So do I, but they can't anymore because pen RNG got berfed.

 

Cry about things that matter instead of numbers, like the terrible playerbase or the fact that certain tanks are still broken op cough helsing

 

the only person that's crying is yourself, seems like you miss those "golden" days when shooting at grey armor and bouncing was much more common. I'll take this change gladly, thanks. 

Btw, a KV-2 just needs to run Calibrated Shells to pen a Tiger I with HE. 


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wwing #9 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:04 PM

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View Post4sfield, on 15 March 2019 - 06:17 AM, said:

 

  There was nothing wrong with +/-25, it made most of your shots pen and avg damage from those shots was pretty close game in and game out. When they narrowed it to 15, we all lost a potential 10% of pen and damage for each shell depending on the roll. This is why things suck right now. The range is too close, instead of seeing more pens and bigger damage we see lower pen numbers and less avg  damage. Narrowing to +/-5 will weaken vehicles and make the game even more campy. 

 

  WTH are they doing? This isn’t rocket science, it’s supposed to be fun and not like work. I don’t want to throw handfuls if gravel against the sides of heavies with my mediums and I want to be able to shoot weak spots on them from the front. What they’re doing is making it worse than it already is. We’ve already been through this and they want to take more? WTH for? It doesn’t make any sense unless you look at it from a in survivability standpoint. It sure will make it tougher for those mediums to be effective against tanks with armor unless they all get a pen buff. 

 

  I don’t like it, I smell nubs.

 

deja vu

 



acrisis #10 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:23 PM

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Personally, I don't think it should have been +-25% pen variance ... +-5% seems rather low, but I guess penning grey areas will be highly consistent now.  

Still there's dispersion RNG and damage RNG.

 

 


 

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_Cletus #11 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:38 PM

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Is WG listening to the player base?  How many threads have been made about RNG being rigged?  +/- 5% is not much at all, IMO this is penetration RNG basically going away.  Do you think this will reduce whining by +/-5% or more?

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Barny227 #12 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:54 PM

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I hope that this will be a good change and that WG doesn’t bork the new 2 color hit skin that is going along with this change.

_Cletus #13 Posted 15 March 2019 - 12:56 PM

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View PostBarny227, on 15 March 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

I hope that this will be a good change and that WG doesn’t bork the new 2 color hit skin that is going along with this change.

 

Hmmmm......guess I'm going to have to read the news today.

 

Edit:  Okay I don't see any articles about RNG and changing the hit skin on the blitz website.  Source please?

 

Edit again:  And if they are changing the hitskin, they better fix the E4's lying spaced armor on the UFP!


Edited by _Cletus, 15 March 2019 - 01:00 PM.

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Zuke76 #14 Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:47 PM

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They should remove the where the shell rng goes lol

acrisis #15 Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:55 PM

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It may have been a small staff note via discord. I'm not following wg news that closely any more, and am not active on their discord, but have heard about it. 

Found something regarding the next OpenTest: 
 

Block Quote

 ±15% spread of penetration value reduced to ±5% in open test The test server will be available from March 19, 12:00 PM (UTC) through March 21, 9:00 AM (UTC).

 

So, this is probably slated for an update not too far into the future. 


Edited by acrisis, 15 March 2019 - 01:59 PM.

 

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acrisis #16 Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:01 PM

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And also, from WG Discord, just posted by Ribble:

 

Block Quote

 

Tankers!

Armor highlighting in our game often becomes the subject of discussion. Situations, when you can't penetrate an armor plate which is not highlighted in red, are by far the most controversial. One of the reasons for such failed shots was an issue that caused some inaccuracy of armor highlighting: when a chance of piercing the armor for the selected shell exceeded 50%, the armor plate could stay unhighlighted in several situations (very annoying situations!) To minimize the number of these cases, we are refining the armor highlighting: it will reflect the chance of penetration way more accurately. This fix will be added to the game in one of the upcoming updates. We've kept working on the highlighting system and eventually decided to go a little further than just correcting the existing issue. We tried to improve the displaying of armor zones so that it became more intuitive and clear for both new and experienced players. We also tried to reduce the armor piercing value spread from ± 15% to ± 5%. We suggest that you participate in the Open Testing and try this set of new features by your own. Please note that your feedback is essential: these changes are by no means final, and it is important for us to understand how comfortable the new approach is for you.
 
 
More info about the changes Fixed armor highlighting accuracy Inability to penetrate the unhighlighted armor is not caused by armor plating issues or errors in shell armor-piercing values. Sometimes, the highlighting system itself indicated the penetration chances in a wrong way. For example, the armor plate could stay unhighlighted, even though the piercing performance of the shell was insufficient for the guaranteed penetration under those circumstances. We are improving the highlighting system to make it more accurate when displaying the penetration chances, so we'll be able to minimize the number of "faulty shots" to unhighlighted plates (as well as penetrations at deep-red highlighted zones). This improvement will be certainly added to the game in one of the further updates.
 
 
±15% spread of penetration value reduced to ±5% Not so far ago we discussed ±15% of penetration value: is it enough, should the random chances be changed or even removed from the game, and what changes it could cause. On the one hand, decreasing of the randomness would make the gameplay more obvious, on the other hand, the "RNG" sometimes allows you to carry out battles when the odds are against you. Your opinions were divided. So, as a compromise and as a part of the experiment, we reduced the range of piercing performance for all shell types from ± 15% to ± 5%. We suggest you test this change and leave your feedback.

Revamped armor highlighting We've experimented with the highlighting and decided to make it more visual. Currently, you can evaluate the chance of successful penetration by checking the brightness of red highlight over the armor. But, some tints of this red gradient might be barely distinguishable, and it's sometimes hard to determine whether you can penetrate the armor with some chance or not. We've implemented the two-color scheme, similar to the HE shell highlighting pattern. Yellow gradient marks armor zones that can be pierced within ±5% range of the penetrating value, and the red color highlights the armor which by no means can be penetrated by the selected shell type. Thus, unhighlighted zones can be pierced even with -5% of penetration performance. The new color scheme differs significantly from the current system, so we suggest you test it as well.
 
 
We need your feedback!

 

 


 

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TO_Dominator #17 Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:06 PM

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I really hate bouncing off gray armor, so I think I'll like it. Damage rolls and aiming circles will remain so I think it's fine.

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_Cletus #18 Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:19 PM

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View Postacrisis, on 15 March 2019 - 08:01 AM, said:

And also, from WG Discord, just posted by Ribble:

 

 

 

 

Thanks crisis!  That is enlightening.....I'm intrigued by the two color hit skin.  I think that's going to be really different, I've spent years looking at shades of red.

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TonnerreCadien #19 Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:47 PM

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Hmmmm. Some folks above say this will lead to fewer pens; some say it will lead to more. I guess we'll find out. I am cynical and suspect it will  be the former, and not the latter. Why? Well, fewer pens = more shots taken per game, and especially more shots with APCR. APCR costs more credits, and credits can be bought with gold. Gold, of course, is usually paid for with real money.


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bg2b #20 Posted 15 March 2019 - 03:02 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 15 March 2019 - 08:56 AM, said:

Edit again:  And if they are changing the hitskin, they better fix the E4's lying spaced armor on the UFP!

 

There are still caveats.  From the EU community manager:

 

Block Quote

  • When you are aiming at the specific spot of the tank, the whole armor plate is highlighted, but its overall color / tint indicates the chance of piercing the armor in that specific armor spot only. (We tried to implement chance-depending gradient highlighting within each armor plate, but no mobile devices can handle this feature with any appropriate framerate). So, if the shell hits the armor within the aiming circle, but not at the reticle center / aiming spot, the penetration can fail, especially in case of plates with irregular form (for example, IS-7's lower front plate when attacked from the side).
  • Highlighting helps you evaluate the chance of piercing the armor plate you are looking at directly. It does not indicate the aggregate chance to penetrate the whole armor complex, if any (e.g., hull shield + front hull armor for SuperPershing or hull skirting plate + side hull armor for a number of Soviet tanks). You should learn the internals of hard-to-penetrate vehicles to increase your shooting efficiency.

 

So when the angle varies significantly within one plate you can still bounce while shooting at clear areas.  And spaced armor will work just as it does now: the indicator will only show you whether you can penetrate the outer plate.






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