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One Official Explanation for all the Ghost Shells (and it sux)

ghost shells misses lame mechanics

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Befallen2 #1 Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:53 AM

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Sup everyone,

 

I reported a problem with a miss in one of my games the other day. Here's what I wrote:

 

Block Quote

 As you can see toward the very end of this replay video, my shot goes right through the hatch of the Tiger 1 without causing damage. This is a ghost shell. Please fix the hitbox so this won't happen in the future.

 

I was at point blank range and my reticle was entirely within the hatch. Here was CS's response after they honestly did a thorough review of the replay I sent:

 

Block Quote

 As far as I see, your shot should come through the hole in the hatch rim. That's possible, if we consider that a shell in the game is a dot and could easily pass through such aperture. The shot flash was right there. A moment later we can see tracer flying a more to the right (screenshot), it's out of aiming area due to delay and disalignment caused by the  mutual movement of your tanks. However it's an illusion and in reality it came through the hole and we noticed it behind. 

 

And that is exactly what happened, and I do appreciate their detailed explanation. However, when I pointed out that it's absurd for a 100mm shell to pass through a gap is so narrow, this is what they wrote:

 

Block Quote

 As our game is just a game we have specific features.

One of them is despite shell being 100mm the real diameter is not 100mm but actually 0mm.

So it can fly even through the needle's eye.

I hope you understand our limitations and that you will keep enjoying the game.

 

Naturally, I never asked for them to enlarge the shell to 100mm, I just asked them to close the gaps in the hitboxes of tanks that are smaller than the shell diameters. Which is something they can do. This option, will not be entertained, however. So, if you are getting crazy ghost shells from long distance or point blank range, this is one possible reason. There are gaps (vents, loops, handles, loose tolerances, etc.) in the construction of Blitz tanks that are historically accurate through which shells that are not historically accurate can fly through.

 

So there you go.

 

-Befallen2



slayer_____ #2 Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:58 AM

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So, all the gray areas of tanks are now considered the “needles eye”? I forget how small tank shells can be........

j0nn0 #3 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:08 AM

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I've had that happen before with what should have been a perfect derp shot. It sucks but you learn to shoot elsewhere if possible.

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tedg5 #4 Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:29 AM

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I guess thus “ that one went right through”, and zero damage. :harp:

HumanCoookie #5 Posted 18 April 2019 - 04:00 AM

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View Postslayer_____, on 18 April 2019 - 01:58 AM, said:

So, all the gray areas of tanks are now considered the “needles eye”? I forget how small tank shells can be........

 

View Posttedg5, on 18 April 2019 - 02:29 AM, said:

I guess thus “ that one went right through”, and zero damage. :harp:

 

Come on, guys. This isn't a hard explanation to grasp. The shell merely flies through the tank's atoms.

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RommelTanker #6 Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:51 AM

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View Postslayer_____, on 17 April 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

So, all the gray areas of tanks are now considered the “needles eye”? I forget how small tank shells can be........

 

7.92mm Mauser on PC :^)

 

To the OP. Consider this if you will.

 

A 100mm shell is 10cm in diameter, correct? The frontal armor plate of the PzKpfw VI Tiger 1 is 100mm if memory serves. You are firing a shell as big around as your target's armor is thick at your target. Now, take into consideration that if the game was scaled correctly and proportionately, tanks like the PzKpfw VIII Maus would be much larger than only 2.5x~ the size of a VW Beetle. Are you seeing my point?

 

Scaling the game to be dimensionally correct is a technological impossibility on a mobile device game. Size scaling is much better on PC, although shells are still considered 0.1mm dots. Also, as another point of consideration, shell dispersion is measured in meters at 100m. .28 dispersion is 28cm, a little under triple the size of your 100mm's gun caliber. WG would either need to remove dispersion for proportional shells to make sense, or completely change how dispersion works.



RommelTanker #7 Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:52 AM

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View Postj0nn0, on 17 April 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

I've had that happen before with what should have been a perfect derp shot. It sucks but you learn to shoot elsewhere if possible.

 

Aim at the center of mass or go home. With changes made to armor and shell penetration balance, aiming center of mass at all tiers at all but a Mus, IS-7, or E-100 is pretty much your best bet. 

Befallen2 #8 Posted 19 April 2019 - 09:56 AM

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View PostRommelTanker, on 18 April 2019 - 05:51 AM, said:

 

7.92mm Mauser on PC :^)

 

To the OP. Consider this if you will.

 

A 100mm shell is 10cm in diameter, correct? The frontal armor plate of the PzKpfw VI Tiger 1 is 100mm if memory serves. You are firing a shell as big around as your target's armor is thick at your target. Now, take into consideration that if the game was scaled correctly and proportionately, tanks like the PzKpfw VIII Maus would be much larger than only 2.5x~ the size of a VW Beetle. Are you seeing my point?

 

Scaling the game to be dimensionally correct is a technological impossibility on a mobile device game. Size scaling is much better on PC, although shells are still considered 0.1mm dots. Also, as another point of consideration, shell dispersion is measured in meters at 100m. .28 dispersion is 28cm, a little under triple the size of your 100mm's gun caliber. WG would either need to remove dispersion for proportional shells to make sense, or completely change how dispersion works.

 

Everyone keeps misunderstanding me on this, and it's really weird. I am not asking WG to change the size or physics of shells in their game. I'm just asking them to close up all the holes in their tank models that are smaller than the shell's real life diameter. If an opening on a Tier 7 tank is 40mm in length or width or height, it shouldn't allow any shells at that tier to pass through. So it shouldn't be an opening at all. They need to just make that a solid part of the model so any shell that hits it either does damage or causes a crit. It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

RommelTanker #9 Posted 19 April 2019 - 01:37 PM

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View PostBefallen2, on 19 April 2019 - 01:56 AM, said:

 

Everyone keeps misunderstanding me on this, and it's really weird. I am not asking WG to change the size or physics of shells in their game. I'm just asking them to close up all the holes in their tank models that are smaller than the shell's real life diameter. If an opening on a Tier 7 tank is 40mm in length or width or height, it shouldn't allow any shells at that tier to pass through. So it shouldn't be an opening at all. They need to just make that a solid part of the model so any shell that hits it either does damage or causes a crit. It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

 

You're asking WG, a company famous for lazy solutions and lazier problem solving, to patch the collision models on over 300 tanks. Even if they did take it upon themselves to do it, it would take 6 to 9 months to get it down.

_Cletus #10 Posted 19 April 2019 - 01:44 PM

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As stated it's doubtful they would go through every tank model and try to close the holes.  However, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that as balancing occurs and a tank is buffed or nerfed WG could use it as an opportunity to tighten the tolerances and do whatever other fixes to the model might be necessary.

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minitel_NA #11 Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:16 PM

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View PostBefallen2, on 18 April 2019 - 01:53 AM, said:

Sup everyone,

 

I reported a problem with a miss in one of my games the other day. Here's what I wrote:

 

 

I was at point blank range and my reticle was entirely within the hatch. Here was CS's response after they honestly did a thorough review of the replay I sent:

 

 

And that is exactly what happened, and I do appreciate their detailed explanation. However, when I pointed out that it's absurd for a 100mm shell to pass through a gap is so narrow, this is what they wrote:

 

 

Naturally, I never asked for them to enlarge the shell to 100mm, I just asked them to close the gaps in the hitboxes of tanks that are smaller than the shell diameters. Which is something they can do. This option, will not be entertained, however. So, if you are getting crazy ghost shells from long distance or point blank range, this is one possible reason. There are gaps (vents, loops, handles, loose tolerances, etc.) in the construction of Blitz tanks that are historically accurate through which shells that are not historically accurate can fly through.

 

So there you go.

 

-Befallen2

 

and, where is that replay u are talking about ?

 

also, holes in the models sometimes happen to be found, but they are extremely rare and even rarer to shot through them. 

CS is perfecto correct in the the trajectory is a mathematical curve with absolutely zero thickness and the caliber is just a value that is not applied to the trajectory thickness.

so as a result, shots can go through a tank of it happens to match that perfect angle to go through a gap. 

 

 

Thats unfortunate.

on the other hand, shells have also been known to have flown through a tank in battle, entering and exiting the tank, without causing damage. It was also rare, but it isn’t unknown.

 

Therefore, I must verdict this as historically correct.

 

now the last bit, in 5 years I only believe to have seen a suspicion of a go through shot only twice.


Edited by minitel_NA, 19 April 2019 - 07:22 PM.

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minitel_NA #12 Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:28 PM

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View PostBefallen2, on 19 April 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

 

Everyone keeps misunderstanding me on this, and it's really weird. I am not asking WG to change the size or physics of shells in their game. I'm just asking them to close up all the holes in their tank models that are smaller than the shell's real life diameter. If an opening on a Tier 7 tank is 40mm in length or width or height, it shouldn't allow any shells at that tier to pass through. So it shouldn't be an opening at all. They need to just make that a solid part of the model so any shell that hits it either does damage or causes a crit. It doesn't seem that complicated to me.

 

They already do not fix obvious things like the spaced armor in the Chinese tds (they are black wholes atm. Nothing can go through and causes Dmg :/

 

 
Holes in models are very rare and hard to find. You could go chase them urself I guess checking the models in an editor... but anyways the chances of shooting in there are ridiculously small.

 

the main issue that arises is at the connection between turrets and hulls.

They should always place a ring in between but I guess to save some polygons and boost FPS they don't.

and when the models are lazy and the turret is slightly above, even the smallest amount, they run a risk.

 

 

now post ur replays please, so that we can have an idea or what u are talking about.

 

 


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kidthekid01 #13 Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:55 PM

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View Postminitel_NA, on 19 April 2019 - 07:28 PM, said:

the main issue that arises is at the connection between turrets and hulls.

They should always place a ring in between but I guess to save some polygons and boost FPS they don't.

and when the models are lazy and the turret is slightly above, even the smallest amount, they run a risk.

This would explain something that happened to me several months ago. This was before replays and 5.5, and I was in my T1E6, in a training room. I was right up next to a E100 or a Maus, I don't remember, and randomly firing. I somehow managed to get a single penetration. I always wondered about this, but I don't have proof, so I never asked anything.



minitel_NA #14 Posted 20 April 2019 - 02:02 AM

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View Postkidthekid01, on 19 April 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

This would explain something that happened to me several months ago. This was before replays and 5.5, and I was in my T1E6, in a training room. I was right up next to a E100 or a Maus, I don't remember, and randomly firing. I somehow managed to get a single penetration. I always wondered about this, but I don't have proof, so I never asked anything.

 

you can make a penetration in some weird and tiny weak spots.

  • Sometimes Viewports have zero thickness,
  • some plates behind the gun mantlet as well may have thin or 0 thickness and they may become visible when the gun reaches extreme angles.
  • some turret rings or turret base - when they have one — are ridiculously thin

 

But what we were taking about , if your she’ll goes into the model without entering, ie through a hole or gap, or like in the broken Chinese tds through the broken spaced armor skirts on the sides, then no dmage will occur. Because the first surface encountered will be the opposite side, on the exit. 

 

 

Edit :

at normal heights,

T6e1 can pen the e100 from behind in the viewport bar above the roof.

It can pen the MAUS in the wheel well in the rear.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  


Edited by minitel_NA, 20 April 2019 - 02:11 AM.

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kidthekid01 #15 Posted 21 April 2019 - 01:58 AM

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View Postminitel_NA, on 20 April 2019 - 02:02 AM, said:

 

you can make a penetration in some weird and tiny weak spots.

  • Sometimes Viewports have zero thickness,
  • some plates behind the gun mantlet as well may have thin or 0 thickness and they may become visible when the gun reaches extreme angles.
  • some turret rings or turret base - when they have one — are ridiculously thin

 

But what we were taking about , if your she’ll goes into the model without entering, ie through a hole or gap, or like in the broken Chinese tds through the broken spaced armor skirts on the sides, then no dmage will occur. Because the first surface encountered will be the opposite side, on the exit. 

 

 

Edit :

at normal heights,

T6e1 can pen the e100 from behind in the viewport bar above the roof.

It can pen the MAUS in the wheel well in the rear.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  

 

I am refering to the tier 2 t1e6. I was on the map canyon, and squished right next to the german super heavy, just randomly firing into his side. If what you said is true, and when you hit a part with no armor and it does no damage, then I have no clue what happened.

1oldgrouch #16 Posted 21 April 2019 - 01:49 PM

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View PostRommelTanker, on 18 April 2019 - 05:51 AM, said:

 

7.92mm Mauser on PC :^)

 

To the OP. Consider this if you will.

 

A 100mm shell is 10cm in diameter, correct? The frontal armor plate of the PzKpfw VI Tiger 1 is 100mm if memory serves. You are firing a shell as big around as your target's armor is thick at your target. Now, take into consideration that if the game was scaled correctly and proportionately, tanks like the PzKpfw VIII Maus would be much larger than only 2.5x~ the size of a VW Beetle. Are you seeing my point?

 

Scaling the game to be dimensionally correct is a technological impossibility on a mobile device game. Size scaling is much better on PC, although shells are still considered 0.1mm dots. Also, as another point of consideration, shell dispersion is measured in meters at 100m. .28 dispersion is 28cm, a little under triple the size of your 100mm's gun caliber. WG would either need to remove dispersion for proportional shells to make sense, or completely change how dispersion works.

 

Nice analogy but you are using physics to explain the factors that shape a digital world which is not even close to the same. All changes made to the game are not physical in any way, shape or form. It is simply decided on by people behind a computer terminal that can change the game any way they feel. The sad point about the whole thing is that the people who can change the contest could care less about those of us wasting time and money on the contest. I would like to say that someone listens to us but I'm reasonably sure all of our experiences and complaining falls on deaf ears. 
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