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dport02 #1 Posted 13 November 2019 - 12:47 AM

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So I’ve been having this question linger in my mind for awhile. And also to change the subject to something not talked about often.What sort of real life tank tactics are and have been employed in combat? And is anything in this game possibly similar to a real life strategy?

Vantablack12 #2 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:12 AM

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Flanking.
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tankeatingtiger #3 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:14 AM

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Camping and flanking it would seem like, since everyone is basically a one-shot. 

One of our esteemed veterans will probably have a much better answer tho.


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_Cletus #4 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:21 AM

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CK_GoldenNuggets #5 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:27 AM

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My knowledge in Real Life Tanking is very limited and my 4 years worth of Tanking would be referred to as "Childs Play" by some... but I can tell you this game has almost no real life comparisons.

Sidescraping: Does not exist in the real world. This is most likely an exploit of game mechanics that just came about through players learning to use their armour. In the real world tanks dont use objects as cover in this way. 
Bush mechanics: Do not exist in the real world. You can not shoot what you cant see. If you are behind a large tree line you are blind unless your optics reach high enough, so for the most part tanks sit out in the open.

Accuracy: As far as real life comparisons go, the accuracy in this game has been severely dampened to fit the map sizes. Real life tanks would probably shoot up to 3000m (1.8 miles) with almost perfect accuracy and precision.
In reality, aim time does not exist and shots being fired at ranges we deal with in game would have almost 100% accuracy all the time. 
Destructible objects: There shouldn't be anything that stops rounds after tier 7 or so, pretty much anything that has an 8.8 cal gun or higher should be able to obliterate any cover with the exception of very large boulders.
- These two things in tandem change the tactics we play with in game a lot. If you could shoot through any object with precision accuracy we wouldnt play the same at all.

Hull down: This is easily the most important thing we use in real life and is the main tactic used to eliminate enemy threats. Going hull down and turret down (nothing showing but the optics / commander's head) is key to tanking IRL.
Flanking: While its technically real, as a tactic... its only used when you have very large numbers of tanks with you. In the real world, you do not engage enemy threats unless you have a bare minimum of 3 to 1 ratio (allies - enemy tanks)

So unless you have 6 tanks, where 3 face the enemy head on and 3 flank, you probably wont be using this tactic too much. Its more for the large scale attack use, not the individual platoon commanders use.


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norman1632 #6 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:36 AM

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View Post_Cletus, on 12 November 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

Follow up question:. Do bats ever follow you around?  And how do you keep the pumpkin from falling off?

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Silver_Lions #7 Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:05 AM

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View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 12 November 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

My knowledge in Real Life Tanking is very limited and my 4 years worth of Tanking would be referred to as "Childs Play" by some... but I can tell you this game has almost no real life comparisons.

Sidescraping: Does not exist in the real world. This is most likely an exploit of game mechanics that just came about through players learning to use their armour. In the real world tanks dont use objects as cover in this way. 
Bush mechanics: Do not exist in the real world. You can not shoot what you cant see. If you are behind a large tree line you are blind unless your optics reach high enough, so for the most part tanks sit out in the open.

Accuracy: As far as real life comparisons go, the accuracy in this game has been severely dampened to fit the map sizes. Real life tanks would probably shoot up to 3000m (1.8 miles) with almost perfect accuracy and precision.
In reality, aim time does not exist and shots being fired at ranges we deal with in game would have almost 100% accuracy all the time. 
Destructible objects: There shouldn't be anything that stops rounds after tier 7 or so, pretty much anything that has an 8.8 cal gun or higher should be able to obliterate any cover with the exception of very large boulders.
- These two things in tandem change the tactics we play with in game a lot. If you could shoot through any object with precision accuracy we wouldnt play the same at all.

Hull down: This is easily the most important thing we use in real life and is the main tactic used to eliminate enemy threats. Going hull down and turret down (nothing showing but the optics / commander's head) is key to tanking IRL.
Flanking: While its technically real, as a tactic... its only used when you have very large numbers of tanks with you. In the real world, you do not engage enemy threats unless you have a bare minimum of 3 to 1 ratio (allies - enemy tanks)

So unless you have 6 tanks, where 3 face the enemy head on and 3 flank, you probably wont be using this tactic too much. Its more for the large scale attack use, not the individual platoon commanders use.

CK has it perfect.....  4 years in tanking, ( myself included),  was dam sure enough tanking/tankery/tanked...!



alphablob #8 Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:30 AM

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This is one of the many videos on the subject:

 


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CA_vampire #9 Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:47 AM

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View Postdport02, on 12 November 2019 - 05:47 PM, said:

So I’ve been having this question linger in my mind for awhile. And also to change the subject to something not talked about often.What sort of real life tank tactics are and have been employed in combat? And is anything in this game possibly similar to a real life strategy?

 

The number 1 real life tank tactic is: Call for air support. 



Boomer625 #10 Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:46 AM

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Yes... when a commander tried to get b17s to bomb targets within 1,500 meters of friendly forces.... guess wheat happened

 

the friendly forces got obliterated and the enemy lost just a few hundred men and a couple of damaged tanks.



Boomer625 #11 Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:47 AM

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P47 with rockets and bombs? More accurate, still chance f friendly fire

 

 

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Edited by Boomer625, 13 November 2019 - 03:47 AM.


Morphman11 #12 Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:33 AM

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Couple of tactics can be translated. Cover vs Concealment. Flanking. Hard initial pushes. Target selection.

CA_vampire #13 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:01 PM

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The real life tactic that can be translated to blitz: have superiority 7 vs 1. Wins every time! 

 

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Herbie_N124 #14 Posted 13 November 2019 - 01:41 PM

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View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 13 November 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

My knowledge in Real Life Tanking is very limited and my 4 years worth of Tanking would be referred to as "Childs Play" by some... but I can tell you this game has almost no real life comparisons.

Sidescraping: Does not exist in the real world. This is most likely an exploit of game mechanics that just came about through players learning to use their armour. In the real world tanks dont use objects as cover in this way. 
Bush mechanics: Do not exist in the real world. You can not shoot what you cant see. If you are behind a large tree line you are blind unless your optics reach high enough, so for the most part tanks sit out in the open.

Accuracy: As far as real life comparisons go, the accuracy in this game has been severely dampened to fit the map sizes. Real life tanks would probably shoot up to 3000m (1.8 miles) with almost perfect accuracy and precision.
In reality, aim time does not exist and shots being fired at ranges we deal with in game would have almost 100% accuracy all the time. 
Destructible objects: There shouldn't be anything that stops rounds after tier 7 or so, pretty much anything that has an 8.8 cal gun or higher should be able to obliterate any cover with the exception of very large boulders.
- These two things in tandem change the tactics we play with in game a lot. If you could shoot through any object with precision accuracy we wouldnt play the same at all.

Hull down: This is easily the most important thing we use in real life and is the main tactic used to eliminate enemy threats. Going hull down and turret down (nothing showing but the optics / commander's head) is key to tanking IRL.
Flanking: While its technically real, as a tactic... its only used when you have very large numbers of tanks with you. In the real world, you do not engage enemy threats unless you have a bare minimum of 3 to 1 ratio (allies - enemy tanks)

So unless you have 6 tanks, where 3 face the enemy head on and 3 flank, you probably wont be using this tactic too much. Its more for the large scale attack use, not the individual platoon commanders use.

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IRL tactics would take place on a larger scale than any of the map sizes.   The "best" players would be the red line corner campers wrecking people unspotted.   

IRL "angling" or "sidescraping" is taught as much as they teach infantry to stand sideways if they think they're going to be shot. 


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ShootinSabot #15 Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:02 PM

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View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 12 November 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

My knowledge in Real Life Tanking is very limited and my 4 years worth of Tanking would be referred to as "Childs Play" by some... but I can tell you this game has almost no real life comparisons.

Sidescraping: Does not exist in the real world. This is most likely an exploit of game mechanics that just came about through players learning to use their armour. In the real world tanks dont use objects as cover in this way. 
Bush mechanics: Do not exist in the real world. You can not shoot what you cant see. If you are behind a large tree line you are blind unless your optics reach high enough, so for the most part tanks sit out in the open.

Accuracy: As far as real life comparisons go, the accuracy in this game has been severely dampened to fit the map sizes. Real life tanks would probably shoot up to 3000m (1.8 miles) with almost perfect accuracy and precision.
In reality, aim time does not exist and shots being fired at ranges we deal with in game would have almost 100% accuracy all the time. 
Destructible objects: There shouldn't be anything that stops rounds after tier 7 or so, pretty much anything that has an 8.8 cal gun or higher should be able to obliterate any cover with the exception of very large boulders.
- These two things in tandem change the tactics we play with in game a lot. If you could shoot through any object with precision accuracy we wouldnt play the same at all.

Hull down: This is easily the most important thing we use in real life and is the main tactic used to eliminate enemy threats. Going hull down and turret down (nothing showing but the optics / commander's head) is key to tanking IRL.
Flanking: While its technically real, as a tactic... its only used when you have very large numbers of tanks with you. In the real world, you do not engage enemy threats unless you have a bare minimum of 3 to 1 ratio (allies - enemy tanks)

So unless you have 6 tanks, where 3 face the enemy head on and 3 flank, you probably wont be using this tactic too much. Its more for the large scale attack use, not the individual platoon commanders use.

 

CK has it hit right on the head, western tanks have it written into their specifications at the beginning of their life cycle to have gun depression for using hull down. There is a tactic that is used in hull down positions that has an equivalent in game play. Resetting camo,  or IRL, jockey left or jockey right is what we called it. One of the basics of hull down tactics is never crest the ridge in the same spot, so the tank would back off the ridge after firing a shot, the crew commander would give the command to jockey left/right and the driver would immediately turn the tank 45 deg to left/right while driving backwards. When the prepare to halt command is given he would straighten up first in preparation to advance to the crest again, ie resetting camo.

Overwatch is also another in game tactic that is used IRL but it is always within the same unit, either a troop/platoon or squadron/company. For a tank troop/platoon, 2 tanks would stay stationary and 2 tanks would advance to the next crest and then they would reverse and the 2 lead tanks would overwatch while the second 2 leap frogged forward. 

The idea of the meds flanking is also a real tactic that has a reasonable facsimile to the game because this is first used at the squadron/company level. I think a little explanation is order. IRL a tank squadron/company (14-18 tanks) would almost never fight as a unit because they would be split into combat teams. 1 or 2 of the troops /platoons would be secondanded to an infantry company and the infantry company would reciprocate. The combat team would consist of 2 troops/platoons of tanks and 2 platoons of infantry. If they were moving forward and encounter a small enemy position, they may put in a quick attack. They  would set up  a fire base of 1 troop of tanks for engaging the position directly (Heavy tanks going down heavy alley) while the rest of the combat team would flank and attack the position from the side, artillery would would also be called in.There is more nuance to this but that is the basics.


                                      

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__Frostbite #16 Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:09 PM

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Spotting mechanics from Blitz are easily the most applicable tactics from Blitz to real life tanking. Always handy to throw on your camo net and be invisible from plain sight in your Maus as long as you don't move from 300m away.

Edited by __Frostbite, 13 November 2019 - 05:11 PM.

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ShootinSabot #17 Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:37 PM

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View Post__Frostbite, on 13 November 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Spotting mechanics from Blitz are easily the most applicable tactics from Blitz to real life tanking. Always handy to throw on your camo net and be invisible from plain sight in your Maus as long as you don't move from 300m away.

There is nothing worse, and I mean nothing, than to try to get a camo net off a tank quickly. The thing gets caught on everything. If there is time or location to use poles on set-up it's not too bad but if it is just draped on the tank you need at 5-10 mins to get it stowed. 


Edited by ShootinSabot, 13 November 2019 - 05:38 PM.

                                      

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Absolute_Sniper #18 Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:41 PM

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Maybe during WW2 some of these tactics translate but for modern tanks nothing does. Even hull down is a mute point. There were multiple examples of M1’s taking out Iraq’s tank while they were hull down simply by shooting through the ground and hitting the hull. Not to mention what a warthog will do to a stationary tank. The warthog make any tanks tactics irrelevant.

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ShootinSabot #19 Posted 13 November 2019 - 06:03 PM

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View PostAbsolute_Sniper, on 13 November 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

Maybe during WW2 some of these tactics translate but for modern tanks nothing does. Even hull down is a mute point. There were multiple examples of M1’s taking out Iraq’s tank while they were hull down simply by shooting through the ground and hitting the hull. Not to mention what a warthog will do to a stationary tank. The warthog make any tanks tactics irrelevant.

Airpower in modern warfare is way overrated, the Iraq's were not modern. It is useful as a point of pressure but the biggest danger to a tank is another tank. Had some discussions about this back in the day. The general consensus was the first 2 things we were going to do as crew commanders was find a shotgun to go with the issue side arm and beg borrow or steal a shoulder launched SAM to strap to the top of the tank. As for helicopters, I did not think there were to many missiles that were faster than the sabot round from a tank and I am pretty sure one of those through the windshield will distract their aim.

Sitting behind a berm on the flat desert is not hull down. Backing into a slight depression with 200 feet of dirt between you and your opponent is hull down.


                                      

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Morphman11 #20 Posted 13 November 2019 - 06:28 PM

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View PostShootinSabot, on 13 November 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

Airpower in modern warfare is way overrated, the Iraq's were not modern. It is useful as a point of pressure but the biggest danger to a tank is another tank. Had some discussions about this back in the day. The general consensus was the first 2 things we were going to do as crew commanders was find a shotgun to go with the issue side arm and beg borrow or steal a shoulder launched SAM to strap to the top of the tank. As for helicopters, I did not think there were to many missiles that were faster than the sabot round from a tank and I am pretty sure one of those through the windshield will distract their aim.

Sitting behind a berm on the flat desert is not hull down. Backing into a slight depression with 200 feet of dirt between you and your opponent is hull down.


Last time I checked tanks don’t windshields.






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