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NeverMoreHopeful_ #1 Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:28 AM

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ER2D8VdAqpNoKvPuvas309G2hifN1P5zvI1QgdER3rs/edit?usp=sharing 

 

This is a guest link to a google document I have created. In it, there is full permissions to comment on anyone who has this link. Try to keep comments in the google doc, and do try to keep it SFW please. I will have to clear comments that are not SFW, although I will consider your feedback.
Note - Read the top line on comment info; Permissions are off for edits.

Comments in the document itself will be a LOT faster response than on the forum itself, although I will try to respond in here when possible. 

Before you judge and jump to conclusions about the ideas, take it in mind that I am doing (especially around tier 10) a list of balance ideas according to buffing everything as this is currently what seems to be Wargaming's plan. 

So if you think any of the buffs I am thinking about at tier 10 are insane... Look at it as a way to make it playable against the Foch, or the upcoming T-62A, instead of against the weaker tanks, that are yet to receive a buff.

 

If you have any ideas on buffs for the tanks I have NOT mentioned, go down to the bottom of the file, and comment there. 



CK_GoldenNuggets #2 Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:15 AM

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Interesting idea.
I like the concept of keeping a list of tanks and what could be done to balance tanks properly ect...
I feel like you could probably make this more organized and accessible on discord tho.

 


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rosgrim #3 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:50 AM

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so basically (this is the summary, however something right was stated in that document) you would like to buff all the tank that need to be played with skills and different style and nerf all the tank you can't pen or that have a unique gun.

one word: boring

besides I always say I don't mind neither if a tank is really op: it should just be on the tech tree so anyone can get it.

relax it is not gonna happen (thanks God). We already have problems with the inaccurate WOTB balance system (this is another story) to add or consider something related to the wish of a singular player or even a group of players. A balance sys. has to be based on subjective and real (not on the paper but experienced in battle) data

 


Edited by rosgrim, 02 December 2019 - 05:54 AM.


Summumer_ #4 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:51 AM

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Reverse the update 5.5 apocalypse. If this was to happen, tier 5 and below would be enjoyable instead of unbearable, thus making it more appealing to noobs.

__Frostbite #5 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:56 AM

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View PostSummumer_, on 01 December 2019 - 09:51 PM, said:

Reverse the update 5.5 apocalypse. If this was to happen, tier 5 and below would be enjoyable instead of unbearable, thus making it more appealing to noobs.

 

how is that gonna fix the balancing issue at Tier 10? 

 

all they need to do is buff the DPM for every single tank by like 40%, and then its more fun. ta da. alas, they want to keep the games slow and boring so that seal clubbers can't rip through noobs as fast. 


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CK_GoldenNuggets #6 Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:16 AM

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View Post__Frostbite, on 02 December 2019 - 05:56 AM, said:

 

how is that gonna fix the balancing issue at Tier 10? 

 

all they need to do is buff the DPM for every single tank by like 40%, and then its more fun. ta da. alas, they want to keep the games slow and boring so that seal clubbers can't rip through noobs as fast. 

 

They have to keep the DPM low, if they were to increase it anymore, steam rolls would be 90% of games.
We need tanks to have less dpm so it takes longer for teams to die and more time for players to learn how to maneuver and improve.
Currently you make 1 mistake at tier 10 and get deleted instantly for it.

If they slow the entire dpm scale back to about from 6 - 10, they could make a serious life improvement to the game.
The DPM scales proportionately and then at tier 7 it goes crazy high...

At tier 8 its scaled back a little to compensate which is why theres a lot of tier 8 meds that feel underpowered compared to a lot of tier 7s...
But over all if they scaled DPM back at every tier by a couple hundred or so, it would be much better for the balancing of individual game length.


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Chiefmac #7 Posted 02 December 2019 - 08:25 AM

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View PostCK_GoldenNuggets, on 01 December 2019 - 10:16 PM, said:

 

They have to keep the DPM low, if they were to increase it anymore, steam rolls would be 90% of games.
We need tanks to have less dpm so it takes longer for teams to die and more time for players to learn how to maneuver and improve.
Currently you make 1 mistake at tier 10 and get deleted instantly for it.

If they slow the entire dpm scale back to about from 6 - 10, they could make a serious life improvement to the game.
The DPM scales proportionately and then at tier 7 it goes crazy high...

At tier 8 its scaled back a little to compensate which is why theres a lot of tier 8 meds that feel underpowered compared to a lot of tier 7s...
But over all if they scaled DPM back at every tier by a couple hundred or so, it would be much better for the balancing of individual game length.

Currently you make 1 mistake at tier 10 and get deleted instantly for it.” - Never a truer statement. And afterwards prepare to be pummeled by salty salt miners.....



__Frostbite #8 Posted 02 December 2019 - 09:37 AM

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Tier X's need to be nerfed, not buffed. Even if all the crap tanks at Tier 10 are buffed and Tier 10 is balanced, there's still the gaping hole between Tier 9 and 10 that has to be fixed. To balance properly, it would create a chain reaction where basically every tank has to be buffed to keep up.

 

Much simpler to just nerf the OP tanks, and then...yeah. Problem solved. We don't need tanks like the Obj 263 and Obj 140 getting buffs. They're fine where they are, we just need tanks like the Foch 155 and Progetto 65 nerfed ASAP. 

 

btw, adding 20-30mm's to the front of the IS-7 would break the game. The lower plate would be nearly 300mm thick, and the pike nose part would be over 40mm thick when looking at it straight on.


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Dark_Magician_Girl #9 Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:32 PM

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....lol

 

Well, at least your heart is in the right place.

 

:teethhappy:


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TO_Dominator #10 Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:30 PM

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View PostChiefmac, on 02 December 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

Currently you make 1 mistake at tier 10 and get deleted instantly for it.” - Never a truer statement. And afterwards prepare to be pummeled by salty salt miners.....

That's what happens when you add a ton of camping tanks to tier 10 and buff them. They're easy to play, rewarding, and very powerful so they get spammed. As a result, most people driving tanks that require thinking, like mediums, will suffer.


"Blitz" can't exist within a world of TDs.

Alopex__ #11 Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:25 PM

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View PostTO_Dominator, on 02 December 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

That's what happens when you add a ton of camping tanks to tier 10 and buff them. They're easy to play, rewarding, and very powerful so they get spammed. As a result, most people driving tanks that require thinking, like mediums, will suffer.

Absolutely! The number of 1000 plus damage roll are annoying aF. Currently there are not enough meds playing tier x so it's campers and heavies. Everyone slugs it out from across the map, try to flank get caught in cross fire, try to spot, you will be seen almost as soon as u see then. One class of tank should not be easy mode for the game. Heck anymore heavies are taking up rolls once used by meds.



_Crusader6_ #12 Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:28 PM

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First they need to get rid of the super consumables and provisions. 
  Then deal with the issues caused by 3.8 equipment. 

I would get rid of the Binary Choice options in equipment- and let folks pick any 6 of the current options. 

 Right now Heavies and TD’s benefit a lot more from the system than meds and lights (IMHO) 
 

Failing that. 
 

Rammer - back to 10%. The drop from 10% was especially punishing to Medium and Light tanks.  Adding back the 10% Rammer  will make the choice between CS and Rammer a lot tougher in many high tier Meds and some low pen heavies, but will add a lot more diversity in game play to those tanks. 

Calibrated Shells: Remove 10% bonus for HE and HEAT and leave with 5% for all ammunition’s 

 

Optics: 15% bonus for Lights, 10% Bonus for Mediums, 5% bonus for TD and Heavy Tanks.  Right now Heavy tanks are barely out view ranged by Mediums. 
 

Cam Net: leave as is. 

 

EGLD: leave as is, but explain in game it doesn’t kick in till vehicle is stationary. 
 

SuperCharge: Add 5% pen boost like CS, as well as current velocity and distance modifiers 

 

Enhanced Armor: bring back to 5% and clearly detail that it does make your armor effectively 105% of stock value. 
 

Enhanced Assembly: add 10% to vehicle HP 

 

Improved Engine: 10% to vehicle Horsepower, thus affecting acceleration and speed, but no traverse bonus. 

 

Improved Traverse: 5% to vehicle traverse speeds 

 

Vstab: cannot be mounted into turretless tanks otherwise keep same. 

Refined Gun: leave as is. 
 

Improved Tracks: add Grouser like benefits: 5% improvement to dispersion on hull rotation and 5% increase to track HP. 
 

Tool Box: leave as is.  
 

CDS and CCD: leave as is.  
 

That’s just a quick spitball while I am waiting on my oil change. 

 



 

 

 


 

 
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Alopex__ #13 Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:38 PM

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View Post__Frostbite, on 02 December 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

Tier X's need to be nerfed, not buffed. Even if all the crap tanks at Tier 10 are buffed and Tier 10 is balanced, there's still the gaping hole between Tier 9 and 10 that has to be fixed. To balance properly, it would create a chain reaction where basically every tank has to be buffed to keep up.

 

Much simpler to just nerf the OP tanks, and then...yeah. Problem solved. We don't need tanks like the Obj 263 and Obj 140 getting buffs. They're fine where they are, we just need tanks like the Foch 155 and Progetto 65 nerfed ASAP. 

 

btw, adding 20-30mm's to the front of the IS-7 would break the game. The lower plate would be nearly 300mm thick, and the pike nose part would be over 40mm thick when looking at it straight on.

Right like if your in type 61 and a foch decides to just yolo rushes you from across the map. ludicrous that a TD can just yolo a supposedly maneuverable medium and it be a legit and effective tactic. Meds and lights are supposed to have the speed advantage, doesn't really work when there are heavies and tds that can run you down.



Alopex__ #14 Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 02 December 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

First they need to get rid of the super consumables and provisions. 
  Then deal with the issues caused by 3.8 equipment. 

I would get rid of the Binary Choice options in equipment- and let folks pick any 6 of the current options. 

 Right now Heavies and TD’s benefit a lot more from the system than meds and lights (IMHO) 
 

Failing that. 
 

Rammer - back to 10%. The drop from 10% was especially punishing to Medium and Light tanks.  Adding back the 10% Rammer  will make the choice between CS and Rammer a lot tougher in many high tier Meds and some low pen heavies, but will add a lot more diversity in game play to those tanks. 

Calibrated Shells: Remove 10% bonus for HE and HEAT and leave with 5% for all ammunition’s 

 

Optics: 15% bonus for Lights, 10% Bonus for Mediums, 5% bonus for TD and Heavy Tanks.  Right now Heavy tanks are barely out view ranged by Mediums. 
 

Cam Net: leave as is. 

 

EGLD: leave as is, but explain in game it doesn’t kick in till vehicle is stationary. 
 

SuperCharge: Add 5% pen boost like CS, as well as current velocity and distance modifiers 

 

Enhanced Armor: bring back to 5% and clearly detail that it does make your armor effectively 105% of stock value. 
 

Enhanced Assembly: add 10% to vehicle HP 

 

Improved Engine: 10% to vehicle Horsepower, thus affecting acceleration and speed, but no traverse bonus. 

 

Improved Traverse: 5% to vehicle traverse speeds 

 

Vstab: cannot be mounted into turretless tanks otherwise keep same. 

Refined Gun: leave as is. 
 

Improved Tracks: add Grouser like benefits: 5% improvement to dispersion on hull rotation and 5% increase to track HP. 
 

Tool Box: leave as is.  
 

CDS and CCD: leave as is.  
 

That’s just a quick spitball while I am waiting on my oil change. 

 



 

 

 

I think this is great. I like the idea of the equipment being different for different tank classes as well. Everything needs to just be slowed down. This shouldn't a twitch type game, it should be a slower thinking game. At this rate it's going to just be super smash brothers with tanks.



_Crusader6_ #15 Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

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View PostStarFox__McCloud, on 02 December 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:

Right like if your in type 61 and a foch decides to just yolo rushes you from across the map. ludicrous that a TD can just yolo a supposedly maneuverable medium and it be a legit and effective tactic. Meds and lights are supposed to have the speed advantage, doesn't really work when there are heavies and tds that can run you down.


Cent 7/1 40kph 

IS-7 50kph

 

Seems legit...


 

 
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Immel_man #16 Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:30 PM

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What I learned from this was that _Crusader6_ doesn’t change his own oil.


NeverMoreHopeful_ #17 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:00 PM

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Thanks to CK_GoldenNuggets for reaching out, making some comments, and giving me info on his attempt to do essentially this in a discord
I have decided to try to revive this server that he made, a while ago, to try and get some stuff moving on how to properly rebalance some in-game issues:
https://discord.gg/PHwpJse
This is the invite link. If you are interested in balance conversations, join in. If you want a say on what feels like a good idea, join in. All are welcome, all suggestions (that are not absolutely insane) are considered, and let's try and get this ball rolling. I will be reaching out on all the Discord servers I have, and over time, between the two of us, will set up roles, rooms, and get this thing going. The end goal:

If we can get enough feedback on certain ideas, send proof of general community agreement to Wargaming, and try to get them to see that maybe there IS hope for this community after all.

 



RonaldusMaximus_ #18 Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:30 PM

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View PostImmel_man, on 02 December 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

What I learned from this was that _Crusader6_ doesn’t change his own oil.

 

:teethhappy:


 


Morphman11 #19 Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:39 PM

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You can post as much as you want, but WG will not care nor will they change their model of balancing vehicles nor will they ever read it because they will not spend the time to translate since they all speak Russian. It is much easier to balance vehicles by throwing dice.

_Weeping_Angel_ #20 Posted 02 December 2019 - 07:20 PM

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I never play below tier 5 so I will leave that to those who play there.  I honestly cannot tell you the last time I played any tank in tiers 1-4.  I never really played tier 5 even until the new international line came out and I started playing at the STRV M/42.  I then was doing some stat rehab to try and get my overall tier 5 WR to 60%.  This is when I realized this is the biggest problem in the game right now.  How is tier 5 suppose to be fun and competitive enough to keep new players wanting to playing on to tiers 6 to 10?

 

First is the equipment discrepancy.  Tier 5 tanks only get the first line of equipment.  Not surprisingly WG lets premium tanks at tier 5 have all 3 levels of equipment.  Talk about not a fair playing field.  Tier 6 gets all 3 line of equipment as well.  Any tech tree tank at tier 5 is at a huge disadvantage here.

 

Second is the MM.  Tier 5 MM is absolutely stupid.  The most common matches are as bottom tier against the overpowered/equipped tier 6.  The second most common is a straight up 14 tank tier 5 match.  The only other tiers I see these games are att tiers 8 and 10 and that is very rarely and due to fact they are probably the most heavily played tiers.  An all tier 5 match happens about 30% of the time for me.  The least common match is when you get to be top tier against tier 4s.  How does this MM create an game experience that keeps players around?

 

Third is the improvements in tank's stats between tier 5 and 6.  A KV-1S at tier 6 now has a gun that does 400 damage.  The average tier 5 medium  has roughly 600ish HP.  Move that same thing up to tier 10 and that would allow a tier 10 heavy to do around 1300 damage.  Guess what.  People complain about the 183 doing just that.  The tier 6 P 43 Bis can kill the tier 5 STRV M/42 medium in 3 shots.  Three Shots from the STRV to the P 43 will only touch about half the HP of the P43.  Tier 5 is just fodder for its tier 6 tanks.  I think the jump from tier 5 to 6 has the most power creep in the game.

 

This needs to be fixed so that new players have smoother transition to upper tiers.  I hated playing tier 5.  Once I get my WR over 60% I will not bat an eye when I say good rinse and never go back down there again.

 

 







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