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The P.44 Pantera: Just... Dear God.


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RommelTanker #1 Posted 14 December 2019 - 07:12 AM

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So, I finished with the mediocre but decent medium that was the P.43 ter and moved up to the Pantera. At first I was expecting the Pantera to be bad (having a ROF of 6 RPM with a 90mm gun at Tier 8 really sets the tone for the grind ahead) but my. God. It's almost unbelievably bad stock. It's slow as sin, the gun can't pen anything, assuming it can even hit a target, and it has no armor.

 

But, I finished with the stock gun and unlocked the glorious autoreloading 90mm. And I realized something.

 

The Italians mediums aren't broken just because they have autoloaders or gun depression or anything else. They're broken because of all the reasons I just listed together; they offer a unique versatility that you cannot get with either a single shot or clip loading tank. These Italian mediums make anything else at their tier completely irrelevant, because they combine the mobility of French and German mediums, the trollish armor of Soviets, the single shot versatility of the Americans due to the gun depression, and the magazine loading versatility of the French. 

 

Allow me to explain:

You are in a 1v3 situation against 1 heavy and 2 TDs. Against the TDs, having a magazine is not preferable, because they have good reloads and typically enough mobility to track you around the battlefield. The heavy makes having the magazine preferable however, as you can mag dump, run away to reload, then come back and repeat. Well the Pantera CAN DO BOTH. 

 

The TDs stand no chance if you can isolate them, as the single shot reload is fast enough to perma track a TD until it's dead. Once both TDs are gone, you can change to mag dumping into the big slow stupid heavy and get an easy win. And this trend goes all the way up to the Tier 10 in the line. These tanks literally have so much versatility that it breaks the game. Most tanks are designed to specialize in one single role but the Italians specialize in multiple roles. Scouting? Mobility of a light tank has gotchu. Finishing off low HP targets? Magazine loading does that. Holding a ridge? Gun depression got you there, chief. Brawling with other meds? Autoreloaders make it trivial. 

 

It's too much versatility, it needs to die. 

 

Anyways, Rommel is done ranting. Carry on.


Edited by RommelTanker, 14 December 2019 - 08:31 AM.

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Dark_Magician_Girl #2 Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:40 AM

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They are broken because you are rewarded for dumping the whole clip.

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Doilky #3 Posted 14 December 2019 - 01:25 PM

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View PostDark_Magician_Girl, on 14 December 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

They are broken because you are rewarded for dumping the whole clip.

 

Are you?  it feels like the reload of the bottom shell in the mag is a lot longer than the top shell. I find myself playing it like a single or double shot auto loader, and waiting for the reload.  Though it is very nice to have 3 shells available when needed. 



Jaq___ #4 Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:33 PM

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If you think the Pantera is good, wait until you get to the standard B. Easily the most broken tech tree tank in the game. 1050 clip potential with that kind of mobility is just sinful. Absolutely amazing tank!

Edited by Jaq___, 14 December 2019 - 02:38 PM.

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Dark_Magician_Girl #5 Posted 14 December 2019 - 06:41 PM

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View PostDoilky, on 14 December 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

 

Are you?  it feels like the reload of the bottom shell in the mag is a lot longer than the top shell. I find myself playing it like a single or double shot auto loader, and waiting for the reload.  Though it is very nice to have 3 shells available when needed. 

 

Ahh yes my child, but don't be fooled.  You also have to tack on the intra clip reload as well as the shell reload to get the full reload time.  As it turns out the standard B and progetto have higher DPM's when you fire single shots from empty rather than only firing one shot at a time with a full clip behind the first shell.

 

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wannabeunicum #6 Posted 14 December 2019 - 09:45 PM

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Eh the panthera's pretty meh. The guns pen is meh although APCR is good. Its pretty big with no armor and the side armor is one of the easiest to get HE'd by in the game. The standard B on the other hand does maintain the lack of armor but smaller profile and with insane CAMO values with decent pen and actually great gun depression instead of just the workable 8.

_Crusader6_ #7 Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:48 PM

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View Postwannabeunicum, on 14 December 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Eh the panthera's pretty meh. The guns pen is meh although APCR is good. Its pretty big with no armor and the side armor is one of the easiest to get HE'd by in the game. The standard B on the other hand does maintain the lack of armor but smaller profile and with insane CAMO values with decent pen and actually great gun depression instead of just the workable 8.


And don’t forget crazy pen on the STD B, One of the best tier 9 med pens in the game...

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Honesty I think the Pantera isn’t nearly as good as most think - but the STD B definitely is over cooked. 
 


 

 

 


 

 
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Posit1ve_ #8 Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:19 PM

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View PostDark_Magician_Girl, on 14 December 2019 - 05:40 AM, said:

They are broken because you are rewarded for dumping the whole clip.

Pantera actually has its autoreloader balanced properly where the reload time increases the deeper you reach into the clip, so it's not broken like the Standard B and progetto 65. 6.1s on the first shell, 6.55s on the second, and 6.65s on the last (yes this is taking interclip into account)

 

 

 

 

Also, honestly, unpopular opinion here, but I kinda hate the Pantera. 3s interclip on a 90mm gun is just too long, and this is from the guy who usually doesn't care much about interclip. When you take 6s to unload 675, and then tack on the time it takes to peek out, aim, and go safe, and you won't be trading effectively at all, so the clip is kinda useless (unlike the Progetto and Standard, which have very fearsome clips)

The rest of the tank is also nothing special. It's large, and has no armor. The speed is good, but it still relies on its gun to get the job done. At the end of the day, it's a support tank; unlike actual flexible tanks like the Pershing and T69, and without the firepower of its successors, it just doesn't justify itself well on the battlefield.


Edited by Posit1ve_, 14 December 2019 - 11:20 PM.

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__Frostbite #9 Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:48 PM

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How are the Pershing and T69 more flexible than the Pantera? They have worse DPM and pen, so it's not like their gun is more useful. They're also slower; the Pantera gets up to 60 kph and has better acceleration vs the 48 for the Pershing and 52 for the T69. Sure, they have more turret armor, but it's not like either one of them is reliably going to bounce shots while hulldown. 

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_Crusader6_ #10 Posted 15 December 2019 - 01:21 AM

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I think that the Pantera surged well at the start as most other folks didn’t understand it. 
  Now that it’s been out, a lot of Meds know how to put trade it - and T49’s and Ru’s just cackle when they see it.  
 

I don’t think it’s bad at all - I just don’t see it as OP at all. 
  Mine seems to have an HE magnet on it these days. 
 

My first 120 games was around 70% (a hair under) my last 70 some have been sub 50% 

    Now I know I’ve been too aggressive in it of late - but often I’m the only med and if I don’t move out at the start, my team camo’s spawn. 
 

 


 

 
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Gavidoc01 #11 Posted 15 December 2019 - 02:29 AM

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Pantera when it first came out was Op because most people didn’t know how to fight it. Now? It’s balance has equaled it out and it’s a very good tank. I wouldn’t say great or op. Main reason being that you are hurt for unloading the entire clip if you don’t need to. As pos1tive stated, the pantera is best used only shooting the first round in the clip to maximize dpm. 
 

the Standard B is the op one of the line. It might not have the armor of the pantera or the progetto but the 10 degrees of gun depression and the gun make up for it. Plus this and the progetto are best used unloading the clip and then reloading a single round which maximizes your burst potential and dpm. 
 

I have a feeling the standard b and progetto will at a minimum get a reload fix to have theirs be like the pantera. 


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Doomking11 #12 Posted 15 December 2019 - 02:33 AM

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Do you think the tier nine standard B will ever be nerfed ?

not sure if I should free exp the thing if it gets nerfed..


Edited by Doomking11, 15 December 2019 - 02:34 AM.

 


Texas_Tyrant #13 Posted 15 December 2019 - 03:34 AM

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Can some one make a guide for the P. 43 Ter?? Currently hate it. :( Take is terrible stock, does it get better? NO armor, and its slow. Not the best traits to have together. Hopefully the auto reloader makes it better. Didn't the Progetto get nerfed in mobility too? It is not fun being slow and having no armor at that tier, I've heard. I don't have it so I cant make claims but that's what I've heard. Worth it? Don't want to spend free xp on something I won't like.

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Gavidoc01 #14 Posted 15 December 2019 - 02:49 PM

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View PostTexas_Tyrant, on 14 December 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

Can some one make a guide for the P. 43 Ter?? Currently hate it. :( Take is terrible stock, does it get better? NO armor, and its slow. Not the best traits to have together. Hopefully the auto reloader makes it better. Didn't the Progetto get nerfed in mobility too? It is not fun being slow and having no armor at that tier, I've heard. I don't have it so I cant make claims but that's what I've heard. Worth it? Don't want to spend free xp on something I won't like.


i like the 43.ter. It has 2nd in class penetration for a tech tree medium. Not phenomenal gun depression but pretty decent armor. I play it like a slower firing t-43 with more armor. 


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Alopex__ #15 Posted 16 December 2019 - 07:57 PM

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View PostGavidoc01, on 15 December 2019 - 02:49 PM, said:


i like the 43.ter. It has 2nd in class penetration for a tech tree medium. Not phenomenal gun depression but pretty decent armor. I play it like a slower firing t-43 with more armor. 

Standard rounds are very good. But the premium round is gawd awfull. It's great top tier and horrid bottom tier. 



Gavidoc01 #16 Posted 16 December 2019 - 08:08 PM

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View PostStarFox__McCloud, on 16 December 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

Standard rounds are very good. But the premium round is gawd awfull. It's great top tier and horrid bottom tier. 

 

I have not had issues playing it as a bottom tier and its AP pen is good enough to go through side armor of heavies.


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Alopex__ #17 Posted 17 December 2019 - 12:15 PM

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View PostGavidoc01, on 16 December 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

 

I have not had issues playing it as a bottom tier and its AP pen is good enough to go through side armor of heavies.

It be nice to have atleast 200 on apcr with rammer. I don't use much of it, but when I need it, I really need it. I think that's really all that keeps it from being one of the best tier 7 meds.



_Crusader6_ #18 Posted 17 December 2019 - 08:32 PM

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View PostDoomking11, on 14 December 2019 - 09:33 PM, said:

Do you think the tier nine standard B will ever be nerfed ?

not sure if I should free exp the thing if it gets nerfed..


RIP Standard B and Progento 65 you where awesome while you lasted (NERF BAT HITS TONIGHT)


 

 
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Jaq___ #19 Posted 17 December 2019 - 09:32 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 17 December 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:


RIP Standard B and Progento 65 you where awesome while you lasted (NERF BAT HITS TONIGHT)

What? I didn't see anything about this. Is this confirmed?


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_Crusader6_ #20 Posted 17 December 2019 - 10:12 PM

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View PostJaq___, on 17 December 2019 - 04:32 PM, said:

What? I didn't see anything about this. Is this confirmed?

Quoting Ribble.

Quote

Future adjustments:
121B - rate of fire buff;
Grille 15 - concealment after shot buff;
FV215B - HP storage nerf;
Foch 155 - damage per shot nerf and rate of fire buff;
Progetto 65 - dynamics, accuracy, aiming and stabilization nerf;
Standard B - accuracy and stabilization nerf.

 

I missed ‘future’ which means we probably have another update of play.  


 

 
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