42 replies to this topic

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

Yes, everyone's favorite two topics, combined into one post!
Nearly everyone has issues with how Matchmaking is currently run, and everyone (for sure) has complaints about the Military Honor system. I created a pair of Reddit posts that have a sort of an idea to rework Military Honor, and if the new system works, apply a sort of matchmaking to it. So, onto the main part of it: Military Honor.

Step 1 - Incentive
Players don't want to waste 5 seconds of time to upvote or downvote someone. Why, is the question? Why are they willing to come after you in post-game and rant at you for 20 minutes, but they aren't willing to click "team" and give you a thumbs-down?
Honestly? I don't have the answer to that. However, I do have an idea that could work:
A) Match MVP.
Every match, the game starts in a screen that shows JUST your team, graphics of their tank and their player name below the vehicle. For 10 seconds, it will sit there. Info given:
Tank, Player Name, and the top 3 medals for each player according to:
Damage dealt, damage blocked, assisted damage, spots, module damage, etc.
Tap a tank. That's it. Tap a tank that you think deserves the vote. You can not vote for yourself. The player with the most vote gets 1.25x experience and credit bonus, and each player that votes on an MVP gets a (1000*tier) credit bonus. Once you have voted, you get to normal post-match. All players that get an vote gets a standard upvote.
Players that received match MVP in their previous game get a crown beside their name in the next match, visible only to your team

If anyone from Wargaming sees this post, the inspiration from this idea is gotten from Dota 2's Match MVP voting segment of the game
 

 

Step 2 - Platoons
Platooning is the #1 way to abuse Military Honour. You can upvote your platoonmate over and over, and you can team up against a player, and try to convince another teammate to downvote them. 
I have 3 suggestions/ideas for this:
A) You cannot upvote the same player more than once every 30 minutes
B) Each member of a platoon counts as only 1/2 a downvote
C) Platoon members are REQUIRED to complete step 3

Step 3 - "Why have you upvoted or downvoted this player?"

An optional part, here, but required for a downvote
All consumables costs are refunded on completion
Give a short (10-20 word) description of why you are upvoting or downvoting this player.
A verified downvote now requires two matching reasons, and there must be some keywords in the written report

Step 4 - Change to options for upvotes/downvotes
Upvotes:
Effective player, communicative player, team player, Skilled Player (*See step 5 for details)
Downvotes:
Inactivity in Battle (Button should be greyed out if the player has shown much activity in battle)
Provocative Communication
Intentional Griefing/trolling
Unskilled Gameplay (Again, see Step 5 for details)

Step 5 - Skilled / Unskilled Player
As mentioned above, these upvotes would be part of Military Honor. This is calculated with a formula combining general stats (WN8 in specific) Upvotes and Downvotes of the mentioned type, and Match MVP votes.

 

These votes (If properly utilized) will give a Player Priority Queue (See the Matchmaking segment, as written below) according to their votes, and according to Military Honor. Votes of this type will have the heaviest effect on Military Honor, as they will add a sort of cap to their Military Honor - Skilled Player cannot drop below 4 star Military Honor, and players with Unskilled Player cannot get above 3 star Military Honor

Matchmaking Segment:

Military Honor Based Matchmaking
With some testing of the Military Honor ideas above, if it is proved to be effective, it could possibly be applied to matchmaking. Here's my idea:
Military Honor will drop to 3* after no upvotes or downvotes after 6 months of activity, which puts you in a 3* queue, allowing you time to recover, and get back into practice. 

Military Honor Matchmaking:
0*, 1* (Absolutely Untrustworthy Player, Untrustworthy Player)

 

These players will be locked against each other in the "Low Priority Queue"
Queue times will be lengthened greatly, so would suggest +2/-2 Matchmaking. This also serves as a sort of punishment pool, as your matches will be lower quality, and your matchmaking will take longer.
2*, 3* (Undisciplined Player, Disciplined Player)
This queue will be the New Player's Queue. Matchmaking will be +0/-0, allowing the players to more comfortable play, and allow to gain Military Honor facing with and against players with them.
All Military Honor will not be applied UNTIL 500 MATCHES HAVE BEEN PLAYED

Once, 500 matches are played, all Military Honor will be applied, and you will be "calibrated" in your queues.

4*, 5* (Trustworthy Player, Impeccable Player)
This is the Priority Queue. These players will face off against each other in +1/-1 Queue.

 

Military Honor Transitions:

It will take a minimum of 50 upvotes, and a 10:1 ratio of upvotes to downvotes (so 50:5, 60:6) to move up to 4*, and 100 upvotes, 20:1 ratio (so 100:5, 200:10) ratio to move up to 5* Military Honor

 

Upvote Bonuses:
Each time you upvote a player, you will gain (250*tier) credits, and each upvote with a review gives you a chance to open a Common Container, from the shop page.

 

 

The next chunk here will be quite controversial:

This system WOULD change queue times, but very slightly. It will make newer players have to take their time to play well and get good behavior score before moving up in tiers, and it will punish people that troll, AFK, grief, and fix matches. In turn, this will also give the community more of a chance to participate in growth, and learning. 

 

This also will discourage seal clubbing at lower tiers, due to the new Military Honor system, which WILL make queue times longer.

I have one more point I am going to make:
Platoons

This is where it will be controversial. What do we do here?
If it were up to me, I would make it so that players with varying Military Honor will automatically queue as if both players are at the higher military honor of the two. This is where I want your opinions: Will it work? will it not work? If not, what else could work, here?

 

 

[halygon]

I doubt you want Step #3 at all as you are giving someone a possible area to vent AND you are adding to the overhead of WG staff in having to read content.  Standard thumbs up and down selections don't require a discretionary review of content, which is probably why WG chose them to begin with.

[acrisis]

I may reread this at some point, but when you say people don’t want to spend 5 secs to vote, etc and then it becomes a whole wall of text and steps, needing to scroll up and down here on the phone to read it, it doesn’t look like you are making it faster / simpler. 

 

MVPs from a prior battle could easily get trolled by kids and toons playing for fun.

 

Then as far as MM based on MH ... there’s a few downsides to that with more queue complexity because there’s already newbies and veterans; then touch & kbm, encounter & supremacy ... now they all need MH brackets? So queue times go pffff. Less frequent players remain stuck in the middle ... 

 

[cheesehead247365]

They should just get rid of Mil honor all together.   There, fast and simple. 

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

halygon, on 08 January 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

I doubt you want Step #3 at all as you are giving someone a possible area to vent AND you are adding to the overhead of WG staff in having to read content.  Standard thumbs up and down selections don't require a discretionary review of content, which is probably why WG chose them to begin with.

You make a good point, and I guess I probably should elaborate on what I mean by keywords. I meant that some specific keywords would need to match, in the reports, for this to work. So if 2 people downvote for inactivity, words that would have to match are like AFK, base, 0, etc.
Just some basic keywords that would confirm. Something like this is ordinarily fairly simple to do, using code.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

acrisis, on 08 January 2020 - 07:25 PM, said:

I may reread this at some point, but when you say people don’t want to spend 5 secs to vote, etc and then it becomes a whole wall of text and steps, needing to scroll up and down here on the phone to read it, it doesn’t look like you are making it faster / simpler. 

 

MVPs from a prior battle could easily get trolled by kids and toons playing for fun.

 

Then as far as MM based on MH ... there’s a few downsides to that with more queue complexity because there’s already newbies and veterans; then touch & kbm, encounter & supremacy ... now they all need MH brackets? So queue times go pffff. Less frequent players remain stuck in the middle ... 

 

You make some good points. My point is, people don't want to do something that is without rewards. Rewarding people for upvotes, creating a short description of WHY they deserve upvotes and downvotes, etc. 
And yes, I agree, the MVP thing doesn't mean your matchmaking will get better. I am hoping it can mean that your teammates can see that you CAN be trusted.

And no, this isnt a way to simplify MH. Much the opposite. Trying to improve it

 

And yes, there would be wrinkles that would need ironing, but hopefully, as with the point of nearly everything I post, this should give Wargaming some ideas to look into trying out.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

cheesehead247365, on 08 January 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

They should just get rid of Mil honor all together.   There, fast and simple. 

The point of this is to improve it. If it can be improved, that's a great thing.

Edited by NMH1701, 08 January 2020 - 07:48 PM.

[NoobieDude]

cheesehead247365, on 08 January 2020 - 11:29 AM, said:

They should just get rid of Mil honor all together.   There, fast and simple. 

The way i understand M.H. it was put in place for the snowflakes , millennial's , and just overall low IQ players to vent. WG was getting hammered with tickets for ludicrous objections. 

[cheesehead247365]

NMH1701, on 08 January 2020 - 12:47 PM, said:

The point of this is to improve it. If it can be improved, that's a great thing.

I am improving it by removing it.  Addition by subtraction.  It's a stupid thing, waste of time, serves no good purpose in the game.  

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

cheesehead247365, on 08 January 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

I am improving it by removing it.  Addition by subtraction.  It's a stupid thing, waste of time, serves no good purpose in the game.  

Currently it has no good purpose. My idea is to create a purpose for it, and add an incentive to it as well, one that most new players struggle with greatly.

[_Cletus]

You know at crosswalks they have that button you can push to activate the crosswalk light so you can get across?  In almost all cases that button actually doesn't do anything.  It's just there to make people waiting to cross feel better about it.  MH is the same thing, it doesn't really do anything other than make players feel like they did something about that a-hole who screwed up their game.  It's useless.

[Gitgudm9]

_Cletus, on 08 January 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

You know at crosswalks they have that button you can push to activate the crosswalk light so you can get across?  In almost all cases that button actually doesn't do anything.  It's just there to make people waiting to cross feel better about it.  MH is the same thing, it doesn't really do anything other than make players feel like they did something about that a-hole who screwed up their game.  It's useless.

 

It's kind of cathartic, but yeah, even the worst trolls usually have 4-5 stars regardless of their behavior ingame. It's quite pointless.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

Gitgudm9, on 08 January 2020 - 08:36 PM, said:

 

It's kind of cathartic, but yeah, even the worst trolls usually have 4-5 stars regardless of their behavior ingame. It's quite pointless.

It is currently pointless. I am hoping with some incentive to downvote, and less ability to abuse upvotes, it may be able to actually do something

[_Cletus]

NMH1701, on 08 January 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

It is currently pointless. I am hoping with some incentive to downvote, and less ability to abuse upvotes, it may be able to actually do something

 

It won't.  The only solution is team voice chat.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

_Cletus, on 08 January 2020 - 09:05 PM, said:

 

It won't.  The only solution is team voice chat.

I do hope you are kidding, sincerely, because that is ABSOLUTELY INSANE...
Have you ever played a game with pubs that have microphone capabilities? It's pointless with adults. And then you add in a player base that is heavily preteens, and.... it would be bad. Just... Bad

[minitel_NA]

At this point military honor failed to become any sort of rating that It was supposed to become. 

The fact that it was aimed at this shows that WG tried to dilute any serious ranking (wr, wn8, dmg...) to give us Personal numbers, ratings, and military honor.

but what it has become is a way to sort of socialize. say hello to a friend, a tap in the back to someone who helped u a bit in battle, and a way to ridicule some enemy (lucky, etc...). Of course the extremely rare case of a warning has to be mentionned here.

 

and recently,  I came to think it’s not bad as a quick social way to retribute someone, unrelatEd to the grind mechanics It’s like it found it’s own use, even unintended.

with the failed of a star system of scale, I  would like WG to dig more into that and give various peer awarded awards. They don’t need to go 2 directions, they could define the players we are. “Camper” “noob” “yolo” “carrier”  and so on. bit like the current but useless “sociable”. awards that underline qualities rather than results. 

 Those could add up the way medAls do, and  appear in a new folder in the medal section of the profile.

 

anyways WG will not pay any attention to this, but that’s my wish.

 

Edited by minitel_NA, 08 January 2020 - 09:38 PM.

[_Cletus]

NMH1701, on 08 January 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

I do hope you are kidding, sincerely, because that is ABSOLUTELY INSANE...
Have you ever played a game with pubs that have microphone capabilities? It's pointless with adults. And then you add in a player base that is heavily preteens, and.... it would be bad. Just... Bad

 

I am completely serious.  People tend to be more polite on voice.  Have you ever played Call of Duty?  You can easily mute annoying or rude people and easily communicate with your team.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

_Cletus, on 08 January 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

 

I am completely serious.  People tend to be more polite on voice.  Have you ever played Call of Duty?  You can easily mute annoying or rude people and easily communicate with your team.

Great, so we just get to have our entire team muted, all the time. Like I said:
Do you REALLY want to have a bunch of squabbling moody teenagers and preteens, and young adults living in their mom's basements yelling at you constantly?
Adding voice chat is also very difficult, if it does not pre-exist, and it would take a LOT more effort to fully add a feature like that and have it decent quality. Not to mention how much more demand it puts on your device... Not everyone plays on PC after all

[_Cletus]

NMH1701, on 08 January 2020 - 03:52 PM, said:

Great, so we just get to have our entire team muted, all the time. Like I said:
Do you REALLY want to have a bunch of squabbling moody teenagers and preteens, and young adults living in their mom's basements yelling at you constantly?
Adding voice chat is also very difficult, if it does not pre-exist, and it would take a LOT more effort to fully add a feature like that and have it decent quality. Not to mention how much more demand it puts on your device... Not everyone plays on PC after all

 

I play on my phone.  I use discord and play Blitz at the same time on my phone all the time, it's never a problem.  Your reaction is not uncommon, I hear it a lot on these forums.  But, have you not played a game with voice chat before?  It's not that bad.  Out of 7 players, you'll probably have to mute one who breathes loudly while listening to polka in the background.  If a basement dweller starts yelling, I'll probably yell back before I mute them, it's no big deal.  

 

I'm no programmer, but it can't be that hard to add voice.

[NeverMoreHopeful_]

_Cletus, on 08 January 2020 - 10:05 PM, said:

 

I play on my phone.  I use discord and play Blitz at the same time on my phone all the time, it's never a problem.  Your reaction is not uncommon, I hear it a lot on these forums.  But, have you not played a game with voice chat before?  It's not that bad.  Out of 7 players, you'll probably have to mute one who breathes loudly while listening to polka in the background.  If a basement dweller starts yelling, I'll probably yell back before I mute them, it's no big deal.  

 

I'm no programmer, but it can't be that hard to add voice.

Yes, I have. I play Dota 2, I have tried League, I played Fortnite when it was new, and I played a few random tourneys in WoT. All of the above I have had good and bad experiences. Also, what's the point in adding it if you're just gonna mute 80% of players you meet?