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War of Northern Aggression


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Texas_Tyrant #1 Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:01 PM

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Alrighty, my server's been disconnected for maintenance so now is a good time to explain myself.   

 

I've been bashed on one of my posts for having the Bars & Stripes as my avatar. I believe it to stand for freedom that was oppressed. A common misconception of the war is that it was about slavery, it wasn't. The war was about taxes and states sovereign rights. 75% of all taxes came from the south, all the tax money went north to others states pockets, can you see whats happening? The south is losing money, power, and rights. In 1828 the government put a tax on called the back tariff, which specifically brought taxes from the south into the north. In 1833 a Force Bill was put in place, allowing the northern states to collect taxes by force from other states. The tension between south and north already existed. When he war broke out it was because the government had become destructive in thee ends. Constitution states that it is the rights and duty of the people to overthrow the government when this happens.

 

Abraham Lincoln did not care about slavery and even said he would end the war keeping the slaves if he could, a year after the civil war started, 1862.

 

Here is some links to read, and actually read them if you want to argue:

 

https://www.mightyta...used-civil-war/

 

http://www.abrahamli...hes/greeley.htm

 

I believe the bars and stars supports freedom of states rights. Slavery would have faded away just like in England. It didn't have to be a war.

 

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DeathInTanks #2 Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:27 PM

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Check out this article. https://imperialglobalexeter.com/2015/03/02/debunking-the-civil-war-tariff-myth/ The Imperial & Global Forum is the blog of the Centre for Imperial and Global History at the History Department, University of Exeter. This is run by a British university. Read through it. And don't just glance at the first paragraph, actually read through it. It's pretty interesting.

 

 

Also, what are your sources? I looked at them and they seem to be run by random people, not people who's job it is to write the truth about history.


Edited by DeathInTanks, 16 January 2020 - 12:33 PM.

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RonaldusMaximus_ #3 Posted 16 January 2020 - 12:38 PM

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Glad you are here Tex!

Be forewarned there are quite a few SJW types here and in game, including WG staff. Just letting you know that you have announced yourself as a target to these people. Most here likely agree with alot of what you said and support your beliefs, but that wont be enough to help when you have been targeted.

Speaking from experience.


Edited by RonaldusMaximus_, 16 January 2020 - 12:39 PM.

 


_Cletus #4 Posted 16 January 2020 - 01:26 PM

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Personally I don't care what flag you fly.  It can mean whatever it wants to you.  The fact is, when most people see that flag, they see racism.  When some bro from california sees that flag, he doesn't think "oh there's a believer in states rights" he thinks "oh there's a dude who doesn't like black people."  Like I said, it doesn't matter to me, I'm not reporting it or anything, but I doubt that flag will last long as your forum pic.  And if you don't realize how most of the public views that flag you haven't been paying attention to life.  And if you do realize how people see that flag, and you fly it anyway, then you're not really trying to be a proponent of freedom, you're just hoping to start some drama.  And making this thread confirms the drama theory.

 

Anyway, this isn't a soap box I necessarily want to be standing on, I won't comment further, but remember that perception is reality and that flag is perceived as racist by the majority of the country.

 

 


 

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Texas_Tyrant #5 Posted 16 January 2020 - 01:46 PM

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View PostDeathInTanks, on 16 January 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

Check out this article. https://imperialglobalexeter.com/2015/03/02/debunking-the-civil-war-tariff-myth/ The Imperial & Global Forum is the blog of the Centre for Imperial and Global History at the History Department, University of Exeter. This is run by a British university. Read through it. And don't just glance at the first paragraph, actually read through it. It's pretty interesting.

 

 

Also, what are your sources? I looked at them and they seem to be run by random people, not people who's job it is to write the truth about history.

 

Give me day or two to read through this....

 

View PostRonaldusMaximus_, on 16 January 2020 - 06:38 AM, said:

Glad you are here Tex!

Be forewarned there are quite a few SJW types here and in game, including WG staff. Just letting you know that you have announced yourself as a target to these people. Most here likely agree with alot of what you said and support your beliefs, but that wont be enough to help when you have been targeted.

Speaking from experience.

 

I know, that's why I made this thread! :D

 

Seriously, I don't want 'em ruining my other thread, hense why I made this one.

 

View Post_Cletus, on 16 January 2020 - 07:26 AM, said:

Personally I don't care what flag you fly.  It can mean whatever it wants to you.  The fact is, when most people see that flag, they see racism.  When some bro from california sees that flag, he doesn't think "oh there's a believer in states rights" he thinks "oh there's a dude who doesn't like black people."  Like I said, it doesn't matter to me, I'm not reporting it or anything, but I doubt that flag will last long as your forum pic.  And if you don't realize how most of the public views that flag you haven't been paying attention to life.  And if you do realize how people see that flag, and you fly it anyway, then you're not really trying to be a proponent of freedom, you're just hoping to start some drama.  And making this thread confirms the drama theory.

 

Anyway, this isn't a soap box I necessarily want to be standing on, I won't comment further, but remember that perception is reality and that flag is perceived as racist by the majority of the country.

 

 

 

That's because everyone listens to CNN and are brain dead, I mean brain washed. People today are told what to think, not how to think. The flag has been made to represent something else, like the rainbow.....


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_Cletus #6 Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:11 PM

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View PostTexas_Tyrant, on 16 January 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

 

Give me day or two to read through this....

 

 

I know, that's why I made this thread! :D

 

Seriously, I don't want 'em ruining my other thread, hense why I made this one.

 

 

That's because everyone listens to CNN and are brain dead, I mean brain washed. People today are told what to think, not how to think. The flag has been made to represent something else, like the rainbow.....

 

Maybe if you want to make a protest, you should fly a rainbow flag.  


 

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Texas_Tyrant #7 Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:23 PM

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C'mon put some skin on. I said misrepresent, people take something and change the meaning. I give up. Can't explain something if you don't try to understand.

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Texas_Tyrant #8 Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:23 PM

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Back on topic now, yeesh.

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TonnerreCadien #9 Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:45 PM

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The secession documents of your home state clearly state that the reason for the war was to keep slavery: 

 

"Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?"

 

And while I have southern roots going back 6-7 generations, and the farthest north I have ever lived was Virginia, you are not going to convince too many people that your display of the Confederate battle flag isn't rooted in racism.

 

Peace out.


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Viper8757NC #10 Posted 16 January 2020 - 02:48 PM

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Five Myths About Why the South Seceded

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths-about-why-the-south-seceded/2011/01/03/ABHr6jD_story.html

 

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War.

 

With regard to the absurd “it was all about taxes” trope:

 

“Tariffs were not an issue in 1860, and Southern states said nothing about them. Why would they? Southerners had written the tariff of 1857, under which the nation was functioning. Its rates were lower than at any point since 1816.

 

For those of you that wish to learn more:

 

The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

 

 “The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy.”

 


 


Edited by Viper8757NC, 16 January 2020 - 03:38 PM.


_Cletus #11 Posted 16 January 2020 - 03:36 PM

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View PostTexas_Tyrant, on 16 January 2020 - 08:23 AM, said:

C'mon put some skin on. I said misrepresent, people take something and change the meaning. I give up. Can't explain something if you don't try to understand.

 

I do understand.  The okay sign [thumb and forefinger together] used to and should mean that everything's okay.  But now the alt-right has stolen it and decent people can't make the sign without other decent people assuming they aren't decent people.  I don't like it, but I understand the reality of it, so when someone needs affirmation I will give them a thumbs up and not use the okay sign.  You know what that flag represents to most people, you know what most people will assume when they see it, so what are you really representing?  


 

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____Zer0____ #12 Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:05 PM

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Apparently the OP doesn't understand why we don't discuss politics or other sensitive topics on the forum.   Threads like this can result in a strike against the OP.  Nobody cares about your political beliefs and your political innuendo is not appreciated.   This thread will most likely be removed by a mod also.  

Edited by ____Zer0____, 16 January 2020 - 04:07 PM.


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Texas_Tyrant #13 Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:27 PM

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We can agree to disagree, that's fine with me, if there was a way to pill my thread down I would. 

 

For now though, can we stop going after my avatar in other threads, derailing them? I don't wont other threads locked because of side-line topics. I think the Israeli line has potential and don't want it locked.

 

Thanks,

 

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_Cletus #14 Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:39 PM

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View PostTexas_Tyrant, on 16 January 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

We can agree to disagree, that's fine with me, if there was a way to pill my thread down I would. 

 

For now though, can we stop going after my avatar in other threads, derailing them? I don't wont other threads locked because of side-line topics. I think the Israeli line has potential and don't want it locked.

 

Thanks,

 

Texas_Tyrant

 

Derailing threads happens when I'm on them, I can't stop that.  But I wasn't trying to or responsible for derailing your thread.  I only spoke up to correct someone who thought your flag was the Texas flag, and I'm a very proud Texan, the confederacy and the Texas that I know and love are two different things that I don't want people to get confused about, it's not the 1800's anymore.  

 

The real reason your thread got derailed?  It's you.  You chose a forum pic that is both political and controversial, asking for problems.


 

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_Crusader6_ #15 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:05 PM

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FWIW, slavery was starting to  die out pre Civil War - it was expensive to keep and maintain slaves (at that point they had more rights than many workers).
While I’m sure it sucked to be a slave, and I don’t condone it,

the children of slaves where the responsibility of the master as well.  So all feeding,

clothing, medical for both the salves and their families often worked to bring the cost of slaves up over the cost of simply field workers (no housing, no food, no clothes etc). 
  I’ve read some doctoral thesis on this, and many projections show slavery had 10-15 years left at best.  
 

 The war wasn’t started solely about slavery. 
 

For years the stars and bars lived in harmony with Americans, the Duke’s of Hazard 70’s TV show had it on the roof of the ‘General Lee’.   Has it been used by white supremacy groups - yes, but it an of itself isn’t a symbol of that.  
  Recently some groups are trying to push a divisive agenda and paint that symbol and many other symbols as racist or ‘UnAmerican’.  

Also remember ‘history is written by the victors’.  

 

Pre Civil War, it was referred to These United States, that was changed to The United States, after the war when Federal Supremacy was established, and States and Individual rights where curtailed. 

 

 

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Viper8757NC #16 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:33 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 16 January 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

FWIW, slavery was starting to  die out pre Civil War - it was expensive to keep and maintain slaves (at that point they had more rights than many workers).
While I’m sure it sucked to be a slave, and I don’t condone it,

the children of slaves where the responsibility of the master as well.  So all feeding,

clothing, medical for both the salves and their families often worked to bring the cost of slaves up over the cost of simply field workers (no housing, no food, no clothes etc). 
  I’ve read some doctoral thesis on this, and many projections show slavery had 10-15 years left at best.  
 

 The war wasn’t started solely about slavery. 
 

For years the stars and bars lived in harmony with Americans, the Duke’s of Hazard 70’s TV show had it on the roof of the ‘General Lee’.   Has it been used by white supremacy groups - yes, but it an of itself isn’t a symbol of that.  
  Recently some groups are trying to push a divisive agenda and paint that symbol and many other symbols as racist or ‘UnAmerican’.  

Also remember ‘history is written by the victors’.  

 

Pre Civil War, it was referred to These United States, that was changed to The United States, after the war when Federal Supremacy was established, and States and Individual rights where curtailed. 

 

 

-C6  

 

WHAT?!   

Are you seriously trying to argue that SLAVES had more rights than workers?  You do understand the concept of slavery, right (i.e., the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune)?

 

You wrote:

>>For years the stars and bars lived in harmony with Americans, the Duke’s of Hazard 70’s TV show had it on the roof of the ‘General Lee’.   Has it been used by white supremacy groups - yes, but it an of itself isn’t a symbol of that.  <<

Sorry, but it is EXACTLY THAT-- a symbol of white supremacy.  Read the words written in the articles of succession, written by southern officials and submitted to the United States Congress.  READ WHAT WAS WRITTEN BY CONFEDERATE SECESSIONISTS.  Slavery and white supremacy was the economic, political, and social foundation of the Confederacy, any argument to the contrary denies the very words written in the historical record.

 

Honestly, I don’t think I can insert a SMH emoji big enough here.  

 


Edited by Viper8757NC, 16 January 2020 - 05:44 PM.


RonaldusMaximus_ #17 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:40 PM

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Please can we lock this thread before people REALLY get upset with eachother?

Pretty Please?


 


_Cletus #18 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:42 PM

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View PostRonaldusMaximus_, on 16 January 2020 - 11:40 AM, said:

Please can we lock this thread before people REALLY get upset with eachother?

Pretty Please?

 


 

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Viper8757NC #19 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:46 PM

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View PostRonaldusMaximus_, on 16 January 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

Please can we lock this thread before people REALLY get upset with eachother?

Pretty Please?


Agreed.

 

I can’t begin to tell you how disappointed I am by what I have read here.  It’s shocking.

 

Props to @_Cletus, though.  A voice of reason in a really disturbing forest of ignorance.


Edited by Viper8757NC, 16 January 2020 - 05:46 PM.


RonaldusMaximus_ #20 Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:47 PM

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View PostViper8757NC, on 16 January 2020 - 12:46 PM, said:


Agreed.

 

I can’t begin to tell you how disappointed I am by what I have read here.  It’s shocking.

 

Props to @_Cletus, though.  A voice of reason in a really disturbing forest of ignorance.

 

You are a guilty party in this trainwreck as well. Don't you dare forget it.


 





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