25 replies to this topic

[Ookla_the_Mok]

Texas_Tyrant,

 

I live in Texas and have probably lived here the entire time you've been alive. 

 

My only advice is that Texas has an interesting history. Conventional thinking about the history is shallow and often convenient more than factual. With that in mind, I'd invite you to dig into it if you are truly interested.

 

 

[_Crusader6_]

Viper8757NC, on 16 January 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

WHAT?!   

Are you seriously trying to argue that SLAVES had more rights than workers?  You do understand the concept of slavery, right (i.e., the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune)?

 

You wrote:

>>For years the stars and bars lived in harmony with Americans, the Duke’s of Hazard 70’s TV show had it on the roof of the ‘General Lee’.   Has it been used by white supremacy groups - yes, but it an of itself isn’t a symbol of that.  <<

Sorry, but it is EXACTLY THAT-- a symbol of white supremacy.  Read the words written in the articles of succession, written by southern officials and submitted to the United States Congress.  READ WHAT WAS WRITTEN BY CONFEDERATE SECESSIONISTS.  Slavery and white supremacy was the economic, political, and social foundation of the Confederacy, any argument to the contrary denies the very words written in the historical record.

 

Honestly, I don’t think I can insert a SMH emoji big enough here.  

 

Can you read? Get off your high horse and remember there DNC was the foundation for the KKK etc 

   Yup Democratic folks where the nasty white guys on hoods.  

  I never said anything about rights, I said economic cost of maintaining slaves.   

You are fixated on something here and I’m at a loss as to why.  
  Have you read the Articles of Secession, and more importantly the what why where’s of why.  

Southerns didn’t want the North telling then how to do things. 
  Meanwhile the North/Fed Gov wanted full control.  
 

I‘m not a white supremest, nor an apologist for slavery - but I found History of the Civil War fascinating at College, and it’s a crazy misunderstood topic as both sides where total wrong - and neither side has been very factual on historical ‘recordings’.  
 

FWIW - 20 years ago I wouldn’t have automatically assumed someone flying the Stars and Bars was a racist - but these days depends where I see it, but often it tends to hint towards Something. 
 

   

 

[Viper8757NC]

__Crusader6__, on 16 January 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

  I never said anything about rights, I said economic cost of maintaining slaves.   

 

 

Yes, you really did:

>>FWIW, slavery was starting to  die out pre Civil War - it was expensive to keep and maintain slaves (at that point they had more rights than many workers).<<

Edited by Viper8757NC, 16 January 2020 - 06:21 PM.

[TonnerreCadien]

Cru, time for you to put this thread out of its misery. There's no need for this to be here, and at this point, you're not helping.

[Viper8757NC]

__Crusader6__, on 16 January 2020 - 06:07 PM, said:

Can you read? Get off your high horse and remember there DNC was the foundation for the KKK etc 

   Yup Democratic folks where the nasty white guys on hoods.  

  I never said anything about rights, I said economic cost of maintaining slaves.   

You are fixated on something here and I’m at a loss as to why.  
  Have you read the Articles of Secession, and more importantly the what why where’s of why.  

Southerns didn’t want the North telling then how to do things. 
  Meanwhile the North/Fed Gov wanted full control.  
 

I‘m not a white supremest, nor an apologist for slavery - but I found History of the Civil War fascinating at College, and it’s a crazy misunderstood topic as both sides where total wrong - and neither side has been very factual on historical ‘recordings’.  
 

FWIW - 20 years ago I wouldn’t have automatically assumed someone flying the Stars and Bars was a racist - but these days depends where I see it, but often it tends to hint towards Something. 
 

   

 

C6, your entire post is apologetic to the “Confederate cause.”  And to reiterate, that ‘cause’ was slavery and white supremacy.

 

You wrote:

>>Southerns didn’t want the North telling then how to do things. <<

Southerns [sic] were afraid that a Lincoln presidency would result in the US Congress abolishing slavery throughout the United States, southern states included, so they submitted articles of secession to preserve slavery and white supremacy in their states. Again, TO PRESERVE SLAVERY AND WHITE SUPREMACY.  Full. Stop.

 

You wrote:

>>I‘m not a white supremest, nor an apologist for slavery - but I found History of the Civil War fascinating at College, and it’s a crazy misunderstood topic as both sides where total wrong - and neither side has been very factual on historical ‘recordings’.<<

By stating that “both sides where [sic] total wrong” is providing a false equivalency argument.  Seceding from the United States of America to preserve slavery and an economic, political, and social system of white supremacy was wrong, and has been proven so by history and the historical record.  There is no ‘both sides” argument here.

 

 

I’m done with this thread, shaking my head in disbelief as I leave.   I urge everyone that visits this thread/post to read the WaPo and Atlantic articles I cited upthread, and review the original secession documents of the southern, Confederate States.  In those documents, written in southern Confederates' own hands, you can see their repugnant defense of continuing slavery and white supremacy in the southern US.

 

 

[_Crusader6_]

Viper8757NC, on 16 January 2020 - 01:45 PM, said:

C6, your entire post is apologetic to the “Confederate cause.”  And to reiterate, that ‘cause’ was slavery and white supremacy.

 

You wrote:

>>Southerns didn’t want the North telling then how to do things. <<

Southerns [sic] were afraid that a Lincoln presidency would result in the US Congress abolishing slavery throughout the United States, southern states included, so they submitted articles of secession to preserve slavery and white supremacy in their states. Again, TO PRESERVE SLAVERY AND WHITE SUPREMACY.  Full. Stop.

 

You wrote:

>>I‘m not a white supremest, nor an apologist for slavery - but I found History of the Civil War fascinating at College, and it’s a crazy misunderstood topic as both sides where total wrong - and neither side has been very factual on historical ‘recordings’.<<

By stating that “both sides where [sic] total wrong” is providing a false equivalency argument.  Seceding from the United States of America to preserve slavery and an economic, political, and social system of white supremacy was wrong, and has been proven so by history and the historical record.  There is no ‘both sides” argument here.

 

 

I’m done with this thread, shaking my head in disbelief as I leave.   I urge everyone that visits this thread/post to read the WaPo and Atlantic articles I cited upthread, and review the original secession documents of the southern, Confederate States.  In those documents, written in southern Confederates' own hands, you can see their repugnant defense of continuing slavery and white supremacy in the southern US.

 

 

Viper,  you seem to be suffering from rectal cranial inversion if that is what you take away from my previous  post.  

  You cite a European website that uses excerpts to prove a point.  The same can be done for the North, or other excerpts taken from other compilations.  
 

I’ve been pretty clear slavery in any form sickens me. 
   My only points are that slavery was in no way the only issue.   Both sides where extremely duplicitous in attempts to make their cause ‘just’.