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Lots of talk about bad teams lately


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BorisBaddenov #1 Posted 13 February 2020 - 10:24 PM

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Hey :)

 

I've been pondering this for a while now.   It really does seem that the changes from 5.5 drastically reduced the amount of games/time it takes for new players to get into the middle and upper tiers.  We also think that most of the low-tier Seal Clubbers have also move up in tiers.  I see complaints quite frequently now that their team in higher tiers are packed with 40% players.   Those complaints seem to focus on the  sub-50's being a (the?) reason for a loss.

 

I do think that 5.5 accelerated how quickly new players get into tier 7-9.   I do think that those who used to seal club in tiers 2-5 have now moved up to 6-8.   I do think that both of those groups of player will naturally have less in-game skills and experience.  And I think the lack of those skills are experience are a big part as to why they are still sub-50% players.

 

So I agree that the over all quality of the player base has probably gone down since the 5.5 release.

 

But are those sub-50% players - you know the ones that everyone is complaining about being on green and causing the loss -   Are not those same sub-50% on the red team?

 

 

Peace-

Boris


Edited by BorisBaddenov, 13 February 2020 - 10:32 PM.

I’ve noticed a strong lack of Spare Parts. Is that intended?

No, it is not. This problem will solve itself with time. Many players have several dozens of vehicles in their Garages, so they don’t have enough Spare Parts for the entire vehicle fleet. But you will gradually collect enough Spare Parts to unlock new slots for purchased tanks in time.


superfly29erguy_1 #2 Posted 13 February 2020 - 11:15 PM

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I would agree with you, but...the players that Im seeing aren't 50-70% seal clubbers. They are players that jumped up into the upper tiers even before 5.5 (which I still believe made it worse) and haven't bothered to learn the game because of 3 things-(1) They really don't have the aptitude to do so, mind boggling, but I get it. (2) They just don't care enough to learn. I feel it is more of the latter just because of the comments I see during and after the game. I have said this before, I think the vast majority of players new to the game within the last year do not care about stats or any other metric this game is based on and (3), the most intolerable player, the one who exists for the sole purpose to be a ___________. The one who purposely drowns themselves or does nothing, I am seeing more than my fair share of these as well.

 

The veteran players, even though they say they don't care about WR anymore, they do care about being a team player and doing the best they can within their abilities which means they care about damage, survival, etc. I just feel the statistical part of the game has gotten lost and thats unfortunate because that, at least for me is what makes it challenging. Anybody can make a cheap, quick shoot em' up tank game that just exists for the purpose of just blowing other tanks up, but thats really boring, eh?


Edited by superfly29erguy_1, 13 February 2020 - 11:18 PM.


BorisBaddenov #3 Posted 13 February 2020 - 11:18 PM

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Ok, but those players are equally spread between red and green teams, yet the complaints are always that the green team had bad players.

 

Dont both teams draw from the same bucket? 

 

 

Peace-

Boris 


I’ve noticed a strong lack of Spare Parts. Is that intended?

No, it is not. This problem will solve itself with time. Many players have several dozens of vehicles in their Garages, so they don’t have enough Spare Parts for the entire vehicle fleet. But you will gradually collect enough Spare Parts to unlock new slots for purchased tanks in time.


boppinbobby #4 Posted 13 February 2020 - 11:24 PM

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It does seem that IMO you need at least 4 players with a clue, that can work together to do well. They also need to have situational awareness sorted so even if you're not all fighting the same battle you end up winning the war. 

This is why I see the 7 man barrage working as it doesn't take the latter, situation awareness or tactics into account, so strength in numbers wins. Doesn't mean it's fun.

There's a lot of players with higher WR than me but in their stats, have less battles and less of every other battle related stat. You seem to be able to be carried by better play to a certain extent.

 


Edited by boppinbobby, 14 February 2020 - 12:07 AM.

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Duke_87 #5 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:09 AM

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>> aren’t they on red, too

IMO, that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what is enjoyable about the game...other than just winning. Teamwork, organization, spotters, challenge...these require players who at least have some clue.

Red teams dominated by awful (sub 47%ish) players are boring (7-0) and ones on green are infuriating (0-7). And when it’s both teams...

And when you are forced to meat shield mode, it takes the fun out of good aggressive play and spotting and...you just slow roll and farm. Boo.

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Absolute_Sniper #6 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:23 AM

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View PostBorisBaddenov, on 13 February 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:

Ok, but those players are equally spread between red and green teams, yet the complaints are always that the green team had bad players.

 

Dont both teams draw from the same bucket? 

 

 

Peace-

Boris 

Yes. Everyone gets the same MM. Tiers 9-10 when I usually play give me the same 20-30 people every night. Sometimes they’re on green, sometime they’re on red. It’s one of the reasons platoons dramatically increase your chances of winning. It allows you to choose 2 out of 7 greens


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superfly29erguy_1 #7 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:23 AM

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View PostDuke_87, on 14 February 2020 - 12:09 AM, said:

>> aren’t they on red, too

IMO, that shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what is enjoyable about the game...other than just winning. Teamwork, organization, spotters, challenge...these require players who at least have some clue.

Red teams dominated by awful (sub 47%ish) players are boring (7-0) and ones on green are infuriating (0-7). And when it’s both teams...

And when you are forced to meat shield mode, it takes the fun out of good aggressive play and spotting and...you just slow roll and farm. Boo.


Oh they are, not disagreeing, but they end up being on green too at some point;)

 



superfly29erguy_1 #8 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:25 AM

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View PostBorisBaddenov, on 13 February 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:

Ok, but those players are equally spread between red and green teams, yet the complaints are always that the green team had bad players.

 

Dont both teams draw from the same bucket? 

 

 

Peace-

Boris 


Correct, and even though its an easy kill on red at times, it still isn't fun to get free damage. It doesn't make you a better player when you play a team with good players. I think grinding tanks provided that learning curve. Using the crap gun or slow engine...it isn't a focus anymore.

 



BAR_001 #9 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:05 AM

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View PostBorisBaddenov, on 13 February 2020 - 04:18 PM, said:

Ok, but those players are equally spread between red and green teams, yet the complaints are always that the green team had bad players.

 

Dont both teams draw from the same bucket? 

 

 

Peace-

Boris 

 

 They may be drawn from the same bucket, but that doesnt mean they are equally distributed. I dont think MM is that sophisticated. So 2 or 3 unicoms on one vs 2 or 3 deadbeats on the other and meh players like me making up the rest of the teams, the idea of a "contest" becomes badly compromised. Its like putting two amateur ball teams against one another, but one team has two or three high school kids on it and the other has two or three professionals on it. Ohh the drama! :sceptic:

 

 The problem with 5.5 is that it removed a HUGE portion of a players requirment to earn their way up the ladder.


Edited by BAR_001, 14 February 2020 - 03:10 AM.

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LtRaseiniai #10 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:57 PM

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I had a six kill game yesterday, in a game where I didn't do anything well at all.

 

The reds split in seven solo groups.  None of them trying to fight anyone.  And no one my team trying to fight and of the reds at all.  Several of the players on my team could not have killed an afk tank.

 

 



krietenstein34 #11 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:18 PM

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No, they are always on my team. :)
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_Zakalwe_ #12 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:52 PM

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View PostBorisBaddenov, on 13 February 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

 It really does seem that the changes from 5.5 drastically reduced the amount of games/time it takes for new players to get into the middle and upper tiers. 

 

Technically I don't think this is true. New players still have to grind each tier. The xp grind seems to be largely the same, minus a few modules. And each low-tier battle lasts significantly longer thanks to more hitpoints and lower dpm. True that you can research multiple lines of a nation in higher tiers faster though.

 

I think the difference is, players are choosing to play higher tiers because low tiers become mind-numbingly boring very quickly. Sealclubbers can't club with the same advantages, so they moved up. And new players move up because the gameplay is actually interesting.

 

Personally I think that's the biggest problem with the 5.5 changes. It was supposed to help retain new players, right? Simplify, ease their entry to the game, nerf the sealclubber advantage. But they made it oh so tedious. Gotta wonder how many quit before reaching mid-tiers simply because they got bored.



_Crusader6_ #13 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:32 PM

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View PostAbsolute_Sniper, on 13 February 2020 - 07:23 PM, said:

Yes. Everyone gets the same MM. Tiers 9-10 when I usually play give me the same 20-30 people every night. Sometimes they’re on green, sometime they’re on red. It’s one of the reasons platoons dramatically increase your chances of winning. It allows you to choose 2 out of 7 greens


I would say that depends on what tier and tank you play, and how good you and your Toon are. 

 The only tier I see a dramatic increase in WR when platooned is tier 8.  Simply as soon many red toons are bad in 8.  
   Tier 9/10 depending when you play can sometimes guarantee a SU toon on red. 

    


  
 

 


 

 
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Si1verBlood #14 Posted 14 February 2020 - 09:20 PM

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People complain to find an excuse for being worse than they think of themselves. I know this from experience. Lately I have been overanalysing my losses (mostly because of the SA thread) and I realized that most of the time if I made a certain decision/move, I would have either avoided the loss for the team, or at least made it way more close to a tie. We all get trash teams, we all get over powered teams and most of the time we all get average teams....of course 5.5 pushes new players to play at tiers that they have no idea how to play, but it hardly changed the usual tardation variable of the teams.

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 22 February 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

Accept that bad players are a feature of the game.   

 


_Crusader6_ #15 Posted 14 February 2020 - 11:06 PM

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View PostSi1verBlood, on 14 February 2020 - 04:20 PM, said:

People complain to find an excuse for being worse than they think of themselves. I know this from experience. Lately I have been overanalysing my losses (mostly because of the SA thread) and I realized that most of the time if I made a certain decision/move, I would have either avoided the loss for the team, or at least made it way more close to a tie. We all get trash teams, we all get over powered teams and most of the time we all get average teams....of course 5.5 pushes new players to play at tiers that they have no idea how to play, but it hardly changed the usual tardation variable of the teams.

  Bingo. I go back to old threads here and see the same commentary - you can find it for 2014.  
Every game I’ve lost - even massive damage/kill games, I can see where I made mistakes - and mostly likely cost the win.  
 


 

 


 

 
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