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For the Missile haters (Mexiteers)


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boppinbobby #1 Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:18 AM

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So I just researched and bought the Sheridan. I am running it with 78% crew and no provisions. I have camo to increase the rating, and full rations to counter some of the missing crew training.

Had a battle similar to the one His Royal Fatness posted on Meadsy69s YouTube channel the other week. Set up on that spotting hill in exactly the same spot and fired 4 missiles with 4 direct hits. The only trouble was I had zero damage. I only got a low roll APCR round off through an advancing E50s lower plate as the red team rushed over. The of the other 6 greens, an E100 went town, an M48 used his last HP to join him before the hill rushed in and the rest all died around me. Can someone explain how they are OP? 

Granted I had enough gold on the T92E1 to 100% crew so I didn't have the crew grind and I free XPd the top gun.

I'm not penetrating half of the targets on the Sheridan that I did in the E1. How are people saying they are OP?

 

 

 


Edited by boppinbobby, 14 February 2020 - 12:30 AM.

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_Cletus #2 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:40 AM

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The t92 is OP.  The missiles are breaking traditional game mechanics.  Not every game and every player is going to be OP in them.  Sometimes, smashers do zero damage.  They are still op.

 

_Crusader6_ #3 Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:46 AM

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View Post_Cletus, on 13 February 2020 - 08:40 PM, said:

The t92 is OP.  The missiles are breaking traditional game mechanics.  Not every game and every player is going to be OP in them.  Sometimes, smashers do zero damage.  They are still op.


Correction: The Missile itself isn’t doing anything.   People using top attack methods are breaking the mechanics.  There is not other issue with the missile - other than folks using non planned engagement style with it, or worse...  
 

For example 

https://youtu.be/YiupvozI8bw


 

 
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j_rod #4 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:07 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 February 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:


Correction: The Missile itself isn’t doing anything.   People using top attack methods are breaking the mechanics.  There is not other issue with the missile - other than folks using non planned engagement style with it, or worse...  
 

For example 

https://youtu.be/YiupvozI8bw

 

This is exactly it. It’s like having a cuddly dog except that it bites you every time you get close. Until you fix the fact that it bites you, you can’t enjoy it’s cuddliness. 


Working as intended
 

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boris55555 #5 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:21 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 February 2020 - 09:46 PM, said:


Correction: The Missile itself isn’t doing anything.   People using top attack methods are breaking the mechanics.  There is not other issue with the missile - other than folks using non planned engagement style with it, or worse...  
 

For example 

https://youtu.be/YiupvozI8bw


I had thought ribble said it would not be changed until seeing what the nerf did...it is “working as intended “ <<<<my phone filled that last bit in! Lol


Atgm non los top down look around bar mechanic

 

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Death__Valley #6 Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:33 AM

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View Postboppinbobby, on 13 February 2020 - 06:18 PM, said:

So I just researched and bought the Sheridan. I am running it with 78% crew and no provisions. I have camo to increase the rating, and full rations to counter some of the missing crew training.

Had a battle similar to the one His Royal Fatness posted on Meadsy69s YouTube channel the other week. Set up on that spotting hill in exactly the same spot and fired 4 missiles with 4 direct hits. The only trouble was I had zero damage. I only got a low roll APCR round off through an advancing E50s lower plate as the red team rushed over. The of the other 6 greens, an E100 went town, an M48 used his last HP to join him before the hill rushed in and the rest all died around me. Can someone explain how they are OP? 

Granted I had enough gold on the T92E1 to 100% crew so I didn't have the crew grind and I free XPd the top gun.

I'm not penetrating half of the targets on the Sheridan that I did in the E1. How are people saying they are OP?


Are you seriously basing how OP a tank is off a single battle? And maybe I’m wrong (I am human after all) but aren’t both tanks using the same gun and ammo? Seems like your low crew XP is skewing your results. 

 

View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 February 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:

View Post_Cletus, on 13 February 2020 - 08:40 PM, said:

The t92 is OP.  The missiles are breaking traditional game mechanics.  Not every game and every player is going to be OP in them.  Sometimes, smashers do zero damage.  They are still op.


Correction: The Missile itself isn’t doing anything.   People using top attack methods are breaking the mechanics.  There is not other issue with the missile - other than folks using non planned engagement style with it, or worse...  
 

For example 

https://youtu.be/YiupvozI8bw


The broken missile mechanics are only PART of the problem. WG is nerfing the T92 armor for a reason. The biggest issues for me are the guidance hacks, the look hacks making map objects translucent (both of which WG says they’re fixing), and the fact the missile isn’t at all used how it was intended in real life. The ATGM ammunition took 800 meters of flight before the guidance could activate. These lights should not be able to play the role of heavies and TDs by sitting front line on a hill and raining missiles on tanks directly across the peak from them. And while this is only effectively done by a very small percentage of players, it should not be capable at all.



Morphman11 #7 Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:40 AM

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Build the wall. And this time no little door to let missile tank players through.

swampydoodle #8 Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:59 AM

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View PostMorphman11, on 13 February 2020 - 08:40 PM, said:

Build the wall. And this time no little door to let missile tank players through.


Exactly this.^^^^^



Chiefmac #9 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:44 AM

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View Postzcostilla, on 13 February 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:


Are you seriously basing how OP a tank is off a single battle? And maybe I’m wrong (I am human after all) but aren’t both tanks using the same gun and ammo? Seems like your low crew XP is skewing your results. 

 


The broken missile mechanics are only PART of the problem. WG is nerfing the T92 armor for a reason. The biggest issues for me are the guidance hacks, the look hacks making map objects translucent (both of which WG says they’re fixing), and the fact the missile isn’t at all used how it was intended in real life. The ATGM ammunition took 800 meters of flight before the guidance could activate. These lights should not be able to play the role of heavies and TDs by sitting front line on a hill and raining missiles on tanks directly across the peak from them. And while this is only effectively done by a very small percentage of players, it should not be capable at all.

Boom ! 



boppinbobby #10 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:59 AM

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View Postzcostilla, on 13 February 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:


Are you seriously basing how OP a tank is off a single battle? And maybe I’m wrong (I am human after all) but aren’t both tanks using the same gun and ammo? Seems like your low crew XP is skewing your results. 

 


The broken missile mechanics are only PART of the problem. WG is nerfing the T92 armor for a reason. The biggest issues for me are the guidance hacks, the look hacks making map objects translucent (both of which WG says they’re fixing), and the fact the missile isn’t at all used how it was intended in real life. The ATGM ammunition took 800 meters of flight before the guidance could activate. These lights should not be able to play the role of heavies and TDs by sitting front line on a hill and raining missiles on tanks directly across the peak from them. And while this is only effectively done by a very small percentage of players, it should not be capable at all.

No not at all, it was merely to point out that in the same situation a better player had more luck by doing the same thing. His video ended with the last few players rushing in one at a time so he had better finish. All we both did was aim gun up and to the side causing the Missile to arc around the hill but still hit sideways. Unfortunately mine didn't cause damage.

I agree my aim is off with crew and no provisions. But unless I either aim in the sky or maybe load calibrated shells, I'm not getting any more pen.


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Death__Valley #11 Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:22 AM

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View Postboppinbobby, on 13 February 2020 - 11:59 PM, said:

No not at all, it was merely to point out that in the same situation a better player had more luck by doing the same thing. His video ended with the last few players rushing in one at a time so he had better finish. All we both did was aim gun up and to the side causing the Missile to arc around the hill but still hit sideways. Unfortunately mine didn't cause damage.

I agree my aim is off with crew and no provisions. But unless I either aim in the sky or maybe load calibrated shells, I'm not getting any more pen.


Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying. I wonder what tanks you both were hitting.


This is another justification, in my opinion, that these ATGMs need a time (distance travelled) buffer before the controls kick in. They were never meant to be used the way we use them in game. I know I sound like a broken record, but the ATGM guidance system takes time to activate (enough time for the missile to travel 730 meters). And according to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source of info) would they weren’t even installed in the T92. The ATGM need a time/distance travelled buffer BEFORE THE GUIDANCE SYSTEM ACTIVATES. It also SHOULD HAVE LINE OF SIGHT TO TARGET for controlling the missile. I would also recommend limiting the tank’s ammo capacity and then adding a gun option to NOT CARRY ATGM rounds and add capacity for more APCR, (which really happened in Vietnam).

 

In addition, the missile proved to have a very long minimum range. Due to the layout of the vehicle, the missile did not come into the sight of the gun/tracker system until it was 800 yards (730 m) from the vehicle, at which point it could start to be guided. Because of its maximum range of about 2,200 yards (2,000 m), the system was only effective within a fairly narrow span of combat distances.” - From the “M551 Shillelagh” wiki, link below

 

Aiming the missile was simple; the gunner simply kept his gunsight on the target, while electronics in the sighting system tracked the missile optically and sent corrections through an IR link (similar to a TV remote control). In general the gunners were able to achieve excellent hit rates.” - From the “M551 Shillelagh” wiki, link below

 

Armor units consisted solely of tanks (minus headquarters company) and mechanized infantry units consisted solely of M113s. In this role, the real problem with the Sheridan was its limited ammunition load; normally, only 20 rounds and 8 missiles; although, as the M551s in Vietnam service were not equipped with missiles or their guidance equipment, this increased the basic load of conventional rounds” - From “Sheridan” wiki, link below

 

“The only niche where the M551 Sheridan was not ideal was the medium and long-range anti-tank engagement. The muzzle velocity was so low that a HEAT round fired at longer ranges would have to be "lofted", making aiming difficult, and the flight time would be so long that a moving target would be very difficult to hit. However, it appeared there was a solution to this problem by equipping the tank with gun-fired anti-tank missiles. For longer range engagements a missile would be fired instead of a HEAT round, and although its velocity would also be relatively slow, the guidance system would make a hit highly likely anyway. The M551 Sheridan appeared to offer the best of both worlds; for infantry support the large calibre gun allowed it to fire full-sized artillery rounds and canister shot, while also giving it reasonable short-range anti-tank performance from the same gun.” From the “Tanks in the Cold War” wiki, link below

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-51_Shillelagh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T92_Light_Tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M551_Sheridan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_the_Cold_War

(Edited to clarify my recommendations, in bold)

Edited by zcostilla, 14 February 2020 - 07:13 PM.

-INDEFINITELY ON HIATUS


boppinbobby #12 Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:47 AM

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View Postzcostilla, on 13 February 2020 - 10:22 PM, said:


Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying. I wonder what tanks you both were hitting.

 

Also, this is another justification, in my opinion, that these ATGMs need a time (distance travelled) buffer before the controls kick in. They were never meant to be used the way we use them in game. I know I sound like a broken record, but the ATGM guidance system takes time to activate (enough time for the missile to travel 800 meters). And according to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source of info) would they weren’t even installed in the T92. I would also recommend limiting the tank’s ammo capacity and then adding a gun option to NOT CARRY ATGM rounds and add capacity for more APCR, (which really happened in Vietnam).

 

Armor units consisted solely of tanks (minus headquarters company) and mechanized infantry units consisted solely of M113s. In this role, the real problem with the Sheridan was its limited ammunition load; normally, only 20 rounds and 8 missiles; although, as the M551s in Vietnam service were not equipped with missiles or their guidance equipment, this increased the basic load of conventional rounds” - From Sheridan Wiki, link below

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-51_Shillelagh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T92_Light_Tank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M551_Sheridan
 

 

Ok I just watched mine it was 3 missiles, 2 in the side of the E50(M) and one from above in an is7. 

He had an STB, a wz 5A and a Progetto. So he had easier targets. 

The video was entitled world of dummies.


Edited by boppinbobby, 14 February 2020 - 06:47 AM.

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wannabeunicum #13 Posted 14 February 2020 - 07:09 AM

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You literally just started, get a few dozen battles and try again, super OP.

_Cletus #14 Posted 14 February 2020 - 01:49 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 13 February 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:


Correction: The Missile itself isn’t doing anything.   People using top attack methods are breaking the mechanics.  There is not other issue with the missile - other than folks using non planned engagement style with it, or worse...  
 

For example 

https://youtu.be/YiupvozI8bw

 

Correction to your correction:  Missiles are breaking hull-down and cover mechanics, when using them as WG told us they intended them to be used.  They need to be removed.


 

tedg5 #15 Posted 14 February 2020 - 02:23 PM

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In most games missiles themselves have little specific impact, it’s the overall tank that’s kinda OP. However, there are some (few) players that can make the missiles do crazy things and then they are OP. My opinion. :arta:

cheesehead247365 #16 Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:23 PM

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Watch this abuse of missiles if you don't think something is wrong.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNiJ6yd46E8

VelociTanker #17 Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:03 PM

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#Mexit

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boppinbobby #18 Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:11 PM

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View PostVelociTanker, on 14 February 2020 - 08:03 AM, said:

#Mexit

After watching Fugit's video I couldn't resist it.


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9_V0LT #19 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:09 PM

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The tanks are OP without the missiles -which is OK, we’ve dealt with OP tanks before, but the ability to cheat by abusing the shoddy missile guidance system, regardless of how much actual damage they inflict in particular battles, just leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. 

Yeah, I'm back. Let's not make a big deal about this.


Destroy0 #20 Posted 14 February 2020 - 06:05 PM

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I stand by my claim that it's not the missiles that are causing the inbalance, it's the apcr that allows it to snapshot like a leo.




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