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_Crusader6_ #61 Posted 25 February 2020 - 07:59 PM

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Okay so I played 55 games today.  
  Subtract the 4 tier X as they are top tier regardless. 
51 games 

22 tier 9,   19 of those 22 where low tier. 
25 games in tier 8, 8 of those games where low tier.  
4 tier 7, 3 of those games I was low tier.  
 

So what.  It’s not like it’s +/-2 and your team has 2 tier 9 5 tier 8 and the other team has 5 tier X and 2 tier 9, because that used to happen.  
 

 


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_Crusader6_ #62 Posted 25 February 2020 - 07:59 PM

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I have it by tank type too if anyone cares. 
    
 
I hate Annihilator spammers...  
Tank Hoarder: 471 tanks in Garage:  485/488 Played Tanks Aced
 
 
I need more tanks...
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 

 


RATT_TAT_TAT_TAT #63 Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:58 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 25 February 2020 - 07:59 PM, said:

Blah bu blah bla bla blahh, blah bu bu bla blah   
  Subtract the 4 tier X as they are top tier regardless
Blah bu blah bla bla blahh, blah bu bu bla blah.  
Blah bu blah bla bla blahh, blah bu bu bla blah

Blah bu blah bla bla blahh, blah bu bu bla blah. Blaaa bla blu blu ba bla bla
 

 


So what your saying is, I should just buy tier ten Premium tanks and I’ll never have to worry about being low tier. 
 

Thanks Crusader!

 



RonaldusMaximus_ #64 Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:04 PM

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View PostRATT_TAT_TAT_TAT, on 25 February 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:


So what your saying is, I should just buy tier ten Premium tanks and I’ll never have to worry about being low tier. 
 

Thanks Crusader!

 

 

That was kinda disrespectful.


 


ODDEO_GUY #65 Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:23 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 25 February 2020 - 07:24 PM, said:

 

21 games at which tier?


5, 6, 7, and 8.



acrisis #66 Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:26 PM

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View PostRATT_TAT_TAT_TAT, on 25 February 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:


So what your saying is, I should just buy tier ten Premium tanks and I’ll never have to worry about being low tier. 
 

Thanks Crusader!

 

 

It is a fair observation. Tier X is never low tier.


For the rest being low tier / high tier all depends on:

- the server you are on ( more players, less players ) 
- along with that the time of day and thus number of players online

- platooned or not
- same control or not
- supremacy or not 

So, if you play on a low population server, in certain tiers, especially odd # tiers like 5 & 7 & 9, in platoon toon with supremacy off and same control on ... expect possibly long wait times and to be low tier a lot. 

Simply based on server population and queueing.

 

No conspiracy. 

 

 


 

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_Crusader6_ #67 Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:30 PM

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View PostRATT_TAT_TAT_TAT, on 25 February 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:


So what your saying is, I should just buy tier ten Premium tanks and I’ll never have to worry about being low tier. 
 

Thanks Crusader!

 


Absolutely, and WG thanks you for your contribution to this quarter’s profits ;) 


I hate Annihilator spammers...  
Tank Hoarder: 471 tanks in Garage:  485/488 Played Tanks Aced
 
 
I need more tanks...
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 

 


_Cletus #68 Posted 25 February 2020 - 09:33 PM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:


5, 6, 7, and 8.

 

So, even though it was a sample of only 21 games spread across 4 tiers.....jeez you're talking about only 5-6 games per tier, assuming equal distribution.  Yeah, that's not even close to enough to make any real judgements.  But, even so, I'd be willing to bet that your tiers 6 and 8 have a higher rate of being high tier than do your 5 and 7.


 

If it burns when I pee, does that mean I wouldn't be a good fireman?
 

ODDEO_GUY #69 Posted 25 February 2020 - 11:49 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 25 February 2020 - 09:33 PM, said:

 

So, even though it was a sample of only 21 games spread across 4 tiers.....jeez you're talking about only 5-6 games per tier, assuming equal distribution.  Yeah, that's not even close to enough to make any real judgements.  But, even so, I'd be willing to bet that your tiers 6 and 8 have a higher rate of being high tier than do your 5 and 7.


I bounce tiers because the advice here is to do just that.

 

Why isn't it close to enough? It should be somewhere around average games/day, and I don't think the average games/day is even 21, my guess is lower. Maybe a dozen or so, if what we're led to think about the player base is true.

 

Look, I'm here as a newbie stating the reasons the game is frustrating in real time. An inside look at what a newbie sees as he or she is learning the game, learning the tanks, tiers, maps, etc. Mods could use this information as marketing research. Or they could treat the "complainers" as a nuisance to be discredited, mocked, stat-shamed, whatever.

 

Crusader tells me again that it's not a problem. The number one issue for many, many players seems to be matchmaking, myself included. I have played 3,652 games as of this moment. A guy who clearly is the best player in the world after playing a rather minuscule 61,762 games just told me my issue isn't an issue, it just doesn't matter. Next comes stat shaming, right?

 

Clearly my fault, I just suck. 

 

"This bugs me."

"You suck!"

 

 

 



__V_O_P__ #70 Posted 26 February 2020 - 12:19 AM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 11:49 PM, said:


I bounce tiers because the advice here is to do just that.

 

Why isn't it close to enough? It should be somewhere around average games/day, and I don't think the average games/day is even 21, my guess is lower. Maybe a dozen or so, if what we're led to think about the player base is true.

 

Look, I'm here as a newbie stating the reasons the game is frustrating in real time. An inside look at what a newbie sees as he or she is learning the game, learning the tanks, tiers, maps, etc. Mods could use this information as marketing research. Or they could treat the "complainers" as a nuisance to be discredited, mocked, stat-shamed, whatever.

 

Crusader tells me again that it's not a problem. The number one issue for many, many players seems to be matchmaking, myself included. I have played 3,652 games as of this moment. A guy who clearly is the best player in the world after playing a rather minuscule 61,762 games just told me my issue isn't an issue, it just doesn't matter. Next comes stat shaming, right?

 

Clearly my fault, I just suck. 

 

"This bugs me."

"You suck!"

 

 

 


look at it from the other way around. someone without much experience in the game says something is broken and wrong. people say they disagree  and the someone gets uppity over it. these types of MM posts occur with staggering frequency, people are just cutting to the chase. 
 

Now of course MM is an issue - it’s central to the game. And people like to blame the teams for their performance and so MM carries the can for bad teams. but really the issue is the player base.
 

final point: FWIW being bottom tier is an opportunity for masteries and other medals.



EL_Din_46 #71 Posted 26 February 2020 - 12:58 AM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 03:49 PM, said:


I bounce tiers because the advice here is to do just that.

 

Why isn't it close to enough? It should be somewhere around average games/day, and I don't think the average games/day is even 21, my guess is lower. Maybe a dozen or so, if what we're led to think about the player base is true.

 

Look, I'm here as a newbie stating the reasons the game is frustrating in real time. An inside look at what a newbie sees as he or she is learning the game, learning the tanks, tiers, maps, etc. Mods could use this information as marketing research. Or they could treat the "complainers" as a nuisance to be discredited, mocked, stat-shamed, whatever.

 

Crusader tells me again that it's not a problem. The number one issue for many, many players seems to be matchmaking, myself included. I have played 3,652 games as of this moment. A guy who clearly is the best player in the world after playing a rather minuscule 61,762 games just told me my issue isn't an issue, it just doesn't matter. Next comes stat shaming, right?

 

Clearly my fault, I just suck. 

 

"This bugs me."

"You suck!"

 

 

 


I don’t understand why you should think that anyone is saying that you suck or that you don’t have a good reason to be frustrated. I don’t see anyone saying that.
 

They are saying that 21 is not a good sample size. That is just the way statistics works and has nothing to do with you, me or the man in the moon.
 

The thing is everybody is frustrated by being low tier battle after battle - the same way everybody is frustrated by not penning the front of an AT series tank. Dealing with being low tier, rng etc is as much a skill as learning the weak spots on a tank. That’s where the factors acrisis mentioned come in.
 

But it is partly an art because the players MM has to work with keep changing from day to day and hour to hour. I had about three days last week when my Krupp 38 (D) was mostly low tier but my same tier PZ IV G was rarely low tier. The Krupp has the second highest T5 WR while the PZ IV G has the sixth lowest WR. With the players in the queue then the tanks balanced out that way in the MM. Then the weekend hit and everything changed. After trying different tiers and tanks I had to go to the next step - play on a different day. 

 

So, if you are looking for a perfect solution - there isn’t one and as long as the game is open to the public there probably will never be one. But at least we can gradually learn better imperfect solutions.


 

This is what you get for letting rednecks play with antimatter, boss.

 

John Ringo, Hell’s Faire


_Cletus #72 Posted 26 February 2020 - 01:02 AM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 05:49 PM, said:


I bounce tiers because the advice here is to do just that.

 

Why isn't it close to enough? It should be somewhere around average games/day, and I don't think the average games/day is even 21, my guess is lower. Maybe a dozen or so, if what we're led to think about the player base is true.

 

Look, I'm here as a newbie stating the reasons the game is frustrating in real time. An inside look at what a newbie sees as he or she is learning the game, learning the tanks, tiers, maps, etc. Mods could use this information as marketing research. Or they could treat the "complainers" as a nuisance to be discredited, mocked, stat-shamed, whatever.

 

Crusader tells me again that it's not a problem. The number one issue for many, many players seems to be matchmaking, myself included. I have played 3,652 games as of this moment. A guy who clearly is the best player in the world after playing a rather minuscule 61,762 games just told me my issue isn't an issue, it just doesn't matter. Next comes stat shaming, right?

 

Clearly my fault, I just suck. 

 

"This bugs me."

"You suck!"

 

 

 

 

Why u mad bro?  I told you how to be high tier more often, play even number tiers.  I challenged you to research it yourself rather than take my word for it.  What do you want from me?  Instead of a solution were you looking for a hug?  Shall I cuddle your nards?  What would make you feel special?


 

If it burns when I pee, does that mean I wouldn't be a good fireman?
 

__V_O_P__ #73 Posted 26 February 2020 - 02:37 AM

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View Post_Cletus, on 26 February 2020 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

Why u mad bro?  I told you how to be high tier more often, play even number tiers.  I challenged you to research it yourself rather than take my word for it.  What do you want from me?  Instead of a solution were you looking for a hug?  Shall I cuddle your nards?  What would make you feel special?


in game friend invite?



ODDEO_GUY #74 Posted 26 February 2020 - 03:13 AM

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View Post_Cletus, on 26 February 2020 - 01:02 AM, said:

 

Why u mad bro?  I told you how to be high tier more often, play even number tiers.  I challenged you to research it yourself rather than take my word for it.  What do you want from me?  Instead of a solution were you looking for a hug?  Shall I cuddle your nards?  What would make you feel special?


Did you read that in a mad voice?

Try again in a cynical, is-what-it-is, shoulder shrug voice.

And cut the baby talk. Mocking. Is this third grade? Just cause your wife talks to you like that....? ;^)

 



ODDEO_GUY #75 Posted 26 February 2020 - 03:14 AM

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View Post__V_O_P__, on 26 February 2020 - 02:37 AM, said:


in game friend invite?


And you're so funny.

Mocking.

Jeez.



ODDEO_GUY #76 Posted 26 February 2020 - 03:16 AM

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View PostEL_Din_46, on 26 February 2020 - 12:58 AM, said:


I don’t understand why you should think that anyone is saying that you suck or that you don’t have a good reason to be frustrated. I don’t see anyone saying that.
 

They are saying that 21 is not a good sample size. That is just the way statistics works and has nothing to do with you, me or the man in the moon.
 

The thing is everybody is frustrated by being low tier battle after battle - the same way everybody is frustrated by not penning the front of an AT series tank. Dealing with being low tier, rng etc is as much a skill as learning the weak spots on a tank. That’s where the factors acrisis mentioned come in.
 

But it is partly an art because the players MM has to work with keep changing from day to day and hour to hour. I had about three days last week when my Krupp 38 (D) was mostly low tier but my same tier PZ IV G was rarely low tier. The Krupp has the second highest T5 WR while the PZ IV G has the sixth lowest WR. With the players in the queue then the tanks balanced out that way in the MM. Then the weekend hit and everything changed. After trying different tiers and tanks I had to go to the next step - play on a different day. 

 

So, if you are looking for a perfect solution - there isn’t one and as long as the game is open to the public there probably will never be one. But at least we can gradually learn better imperfect solutions.


I am trying to say most players aren't averaging their MM over hundreds of games, and would it be terribly difficult to adjust MM to what an average player could see? Would it be a "Less Imperfect" solution, if not, why?



_Cletus #77 Posted 26 February 2020 - 03:18 AM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 09:13 PM, said:


Did you read that in a mad voice?

Try again in a cynical, is-what-it-is, shoulder shrug voice.

And cut the baby talk. Mocking. Is this third grade? Just cause your wife talks to you like that....? ;^)

 

 

You shouldn't bring up my wife, you'd have no hope of handling her.  And honestly, you don't know me like that, that's out of line.  As for baby talk, I was assuming middle school or so based on your grasp of statistical analysis.


 

If it burns when I pee, does that mean I wouldn't be a good fireman?
 

Palepatriot #78 Posted 26 February 2020 - 04:05 AM

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*wishes he could squeeze in 55 battles like Crusader in a day* 

 

#jealous



EL_Din_46 #79 Posted 26 February 2020 - 04:24 AM

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View PostODDEO_GUY, on 25 February 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:


I am trying to say most players aren't averaging their MM over hundreds of games, and would it be terribly difficult to adjust MM to what an average player could see? Would it be a "Less Imperfect" solution, if not, why?


It probably does average over a large enough number of games. In my example I played 5 - 10 games in one tank at low tier followed by a similar number of same/high tier games in a different tank. The only odd thing that I noticed was that it happened for more than one day. I didn’t bother counting the games since the result seemed roughly balanced. 
 

To see if there is an overall balance we’d have to step back far enough to see thousands of games. There are players in the EU forum who have run computerized statistical studies involving tens of thousands of battles, so it might be possible, but I’m not going to be the guy that does that. (And don’t ask for a citation please, it was a few months ago).

 

As for how difficult, I don’t think it’s easy. The biggest variable is the decisions thousands of people make about when to play, what tier and what tank. With a guiding principal that whoever shows up quickly gets into a battle there is a lot of cats to herd. WG has made changes for new players, ratings games, the 6.2 MM tests and so on, so I’ll give them credit for trying. Since the NA server has the second lowest player base it didn’t qualify for the 6.2 MM test. Even on the EU server players don’t think that there enough people online simultaneously for the 6.2 test or new player MM rules to be reliable. Any change would be harder here. 

 

 


Edited by EL_Din_46, 26 February 2020 - 05:00 AM.

 

This is what you get for letting rednecks play with antimatter, boss.

 

John Ringo, Hell’s Faire


RATT_TAT_TAT_TAT #80 Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:54 AM

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View PostRonaldusMaximus_, on 25 February 2020 - 09:04 PM, said:

View PostRATT_TAT_TAT_TAT, on 25 February 2020 - 08:58 PM, said:


So what your saying is, I should just buy tier ten Premium tanks and I’ll never have to worry about being low tier. 
 

Thanks Crusader!


That was kinda disrespectful.


No. 

If I respond in a satirical way, that clearly makes me look like an idiot, it’s called self deprecating. 







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