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Vineyards needs fixing

Vineyards

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_Tactician #1 Posted 15 April 2020 - 05:25 AM

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Vineyards used to be my second favorite map. Now it’s barely top ten. The issue with it is that the North spawn is much worse than the south spawn. Any good player can and will abuse the southern spawn by using both the dip near the ruins at the northwest corner and the elevated area to the left of cap (from southern spawn perspective) and have map control. Town doesn’t really matter as it sucks equally for both sides. However, with the southern spawn having control of of almost 2/3 of total map area and pinning the North into the northeast corner and town, the battle is pretty much over. The south also has the ruins for cover going to northwest corner, while north has no cover. The shots from B cap into ruins are much better than from A cap, further making the imbalance wider. When running with P4NDORA, every time we got north spawn, which was about 70% of the time, we tried to “flip” the battle by pushing across cap over to the south side. However, this is taking a platoon running over 70% tiers 8-10 on voice coms to do. Normal players aren’t doing this. On south side we abused the spawn and never lost from it. Overall, the map needs to be changed, perhaps by making it easier to drive to the B cap from North in a similar dip as the south can exploit, andperhaps a raised area right off one of the town buildings with shots acorss to ruins. Either way, changed is badly needed.


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minitel_NA #2 Posted 15 April 2020 - 10:50 AM

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Heatmaps on wotinspector give 507 replays vs 476 for the south spawn.

 

people tend to submit only their victories (even only their mastery games) So it does look like there is a bias.

 

but wait ! that’s encounter ! In supremacy, it’s 216 vs 316... so it looks like the table is turned and overall balanced.

https://wotinspector.com/en/heatmaps/?ts=1559854340&id=23&platform=blitz

 

in any case personally I don’t mind. I still like this map, usually I play both sides (never at the same time mind you).


I like it because it offers a variety of developement, it’s not like some maps (portbay rolleye) with a single scenario.


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_GraceToo #3 Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:13 PM

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The original version of this map was so much better - it was a rare map where the center really could be the best place to be.  Sadly, for no reason I can discern, they needed to re-do it to make it as much as possible like every other map.

 

One person in town can make a big difference - there are multiple shooting lanes including the ability to hit the encounter-battle cap from the top of the stairs.



_Fu_Manchu_ #4 Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:33 PM

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I agree that it was a mistake on WG's part to re-work this map. It was better before. The twilight lighting was also a fantastic change up from all the daylight maps.

 

I also agree with Minitel that this map is okay and doesn't need to be balanced. I win more often than not, regardless of which side I spawn on. It takes different strategies to win from A than it does to win from B, and that's a good thing.



_Cletus #5 Posted 15 April 2020 - 03:50 PM

    [edited] Voodoo [edited] Wizard [edited]

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If I'm driving a medium and I start on the north spawn, I'll usually head over to the ruins, I can't say I've had less success there than on the other side.  And if I'm in a good depression heavy, the cap circle on either side can be really nice, unless your team abandons you.

 

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_Fu_Manchu_ #6 Posted 15 April 2020 - 04:29 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 15 April 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:

If I'm driving a medium and I start on the north spawn, I'll usually head over to the ruins, I can't say I've had less success there than on the other side.  And if I'm in a good depression heavy, the cap circle on either side can be really nice, unless your team abandons you.

 

I very rarely go into the ruins, except later in a battle. I almost always play from the buildings by A and B (even in encounter), or the area around the encounter cap.



minitel_NA #7 Posted 15 April 2020 - 08:55 PM

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View PostDeliciousPancakes_, on 15 April 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

I agree that it was a mistake on WG's part to re-work this map. It was better before. The twilight lighting was also a fantastic change up from all the daylight maps.

 

I also agree with Minitel that this map is okay and doesn't need to be balanced. I win more often than not, regardless of which side I spawn on. It takes different strategies to win from A than it does to win from B, and that's a good thing.


... and I forgot to say this, but I also think I’m winning more often than not, except when team has decided to all go town. In which case it’s 96.9% failure from the start. 
 

View Post_GraceToo, on 15 April 2020 - 03:13 PM, said:

The original version of this map was so much better - it was a rare map where the center really could be the best place to be.  Sadly, for no reason I can discern, they needed to re-do it to make it as much as possible like every other map.

 

One person in town can make a big difference - there are multiple shooting lanes including the ability to hit the encounter-battle cap from the top of the stairs.


I agree town is wonderful, but only if two conditions are met:

  1. Nobody in either team went there
  2. aand I’m in a fast tank (benefiting from town should be acted upon very swiftly (sniping opportunity, base reset obligation, and abandoning town must be done just as swiftly (being seeked or chased, or preventing my team from a general meltdown in a critical hot point).

 

occasionally I would also murder a slow noob who got lost there, but that’s usually just because I need the space for myself or that there is nothing better to do. So, a bit more opportunity scavenging rather than a goal in itself.


Edited by minitel_NA, 15 April 2020 - 08:58 PM.

Minitelrose visiting from EU, occasional player/forumer in the NA

 


Jagdwagengrimm_ #8 Posted 15 April 2020 - 11:58 PM

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I agree. And Canyon is equally as [edited]and unbalanced. As is Mines. Port Bay is up there as well.

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