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Tiger II- When Heavies Camp

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_Cletus #21 Posted 12 June 2020 - 09:54 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 12 June 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:


T-34 can’t pen it. Just a T34 ;) 

 

Dammit, I always get that wrong!


 

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_Crusader6_ #22 Posted 12 June 2020 - 10:42 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 12 June 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

 

Dammit, I always get that wrong!


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otirruborez #23 Posted 12 June 2020 - 11:20 PM

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How is a tank with only 300 pen going through the 252 pike at 500(400 sidescraping) effective?

Edited by otirruborez, 12 June 2020 - 11:21 PM.


_Crusader6_ #24 Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:52 AM

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View Postotirruborez, on 12 June 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

How is a tank with only 300 pen going through the 252 pike at 500(400 sidescraping) effective?


Well the giant 140mm effective  lower plate makes sidescraping in it impossible if red knows how to aim...
  I mean maybe against a bot? 
 

On flat ground anyone with a brain can ventilate the cupola too.  
 

The 252U can only bully muppets. 

 


 

 
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Gitgudm9 #25 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:13 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 12 June 2020 - 07:52 PM, said:


Well the giant 140mm effective  lower plate makes sidescraping in it impossible if red knows how to aim...
  I mean maybe against a bot? 
 

On flat ground anyone with a brain can ventilate the cupola too.  
 

The 252U can only bully muppets. 

 

Unfortunately that's most of the playerbase. I find the 252U to be very strong because it's just so troll - even the sides and rear will bounce your shots if you don't aim properly. It's very difficult to deal with hull-down and it sidescrapes pretty well too, so it's a pain to dig out and a force to be reckoned with when it runs with the mediums. Hell, you can even angle your lower plate against low pen guns because the pike nose is so effective. I'm definitely not saying that it's OP, but it's also undoubtedly strong with a fairly low skill floor. 


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_Crusader6_ #26 Posted 13 June 2020 - 09:53 PM

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View PostGitgudm9, on 13 June 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

Unfortunately that's most of the playerbase. I find the 252U to be very strong because it's just so troll - even the sides and rear will bounce your shots if you don't aim properly. It's very difficult to deal with hull-down and it sidescrapes pretty well too, so it's a pain to dig out and a force to be reckoned with when it runs with the mediums. Hell, you can even angle your lower plate against low pen guns because the pike nose is so effective. I'm definitely not saying that it's OP, but it's also undoubtedly strong with a fairly low skill floor. 


The gun is so typical Russian that it needs troll armor.   
    The 252U is only good due to the majority player base not being able/understanding how, to exploit it.  
 If a good player runs it well, it can be hard to dislodge, so you go farm something else and come back to it when you can exploit its weaknesses.  
    It is mind boggling when one sees a player in a more mobile tank sit and try to figure a fast way to die in place against a 252U 

 

 

 



 


 

 
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otirruborez #27 Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:21 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 13 June 2020 - 12:52 AM, said:


Well the giant 140mm effective  lower plate makes sidescraping in it impossible if red knows how to aim...
  I mean maybe against a bot? 
 

On flat ground anyone with a brain can ventilate the cupola too.  
 

The 252U can only bully muppets. 

 

no. sidescraping hiding the entire lower plate gives the upper plate 370-385 effective. it loses a whole 100mm of armor, but it was near 500 before so you still can't pen it. this tank is not the is7 or is3. the hull is stronger than any tier 10 heavy.

 

the 252 sidescraping has the same pike armor as an is7 head on, LUL. you have to hit the cupolas or rush a 252 that is sidescraping. not even tier 9 td's with gold will get through.

 

it also has better side armor than all tier 10 heavies. it has an unpennable strip at the bottom and half of the upper side can't be penned even totally flat to the tank. you have to shoot the upper middle which is over 200 effective, or shoot below the spaced armor(580 effective) and above the lower strip that is 300 effective. even the entire side of the turret is 230-350 effective. the tank is a serious joke.


Edited by otirruborez, 14 June 2020 - 12:35 PM.


_Crusader6_ #28 Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:39 PM

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View Postotirruborez, on 14 June 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

no. sidescraping hiding the entire lower plate gives the upper plate 370-385 effective. it loses a whole 100mm of armor, but it was near 500 before so you still can't pen it. this tank is not the is7 or is3. the hull is stronger than any tier 10 heavy.

 

the 252 sidescraping has the same pike armor as an is7 head on, LUL. you have to hit the cupolas or rush a 252 that is sidescraping. not even tier 9 td's with gold will get through.


You can sit against the wall all you want.  
   But neither the 252U or the IS-7 can sidescape and get their gun in action without exposing the lower plate.   
 If a 252U or IS-7 sits against the wall, you can just HE them to whittle them down.   
  Pike nosed tanks are not good at sidescrapes, as the lower plate gets exposed before the gun. 
if you angle the 252U in a manner to hide the lower plate on a sidescrape you expose some weak area way earlier - like the 56mm effective ‘gap’ after the UFP. At that angle it is just below the mantlet on the hull.   
 


 

If you are going to try to lecture folks about tanks, maybe have some subject matter knowledge first. 


 

 
 


 

 
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otirruborez #29 Posted 14 June 2020 - 12:43 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 14 June 2020 - 12:39 PM, said:


You can sit against the wall all you want.  
   But neither the 252U or the IS-7 can sidescape and get their gun in action without exposing the lower plate.   
 If a 252U or IS-7 sits against the wall, you can just HE them to whittle them down.   
  Pike nosed tanks are not good at sidescrapes, as the lower plate gets exposed before the gun. 
if you angle the 252U in a manner to hide the lower plate on a sidescrape you expose some weak area way earlier - like the 56mm effective ‘gap’ after the UFP. At that angle it is just below the mantlet on the hull.   
 


 

If you are going to try to lecture folks about tanks, maybe have some subject matter knowledge first. 


 

 
 

dude.

 

https://blitzhangar.com/en/tank/obj-252u

 

angle it it yourself. turn the turret to where the lower plate is to the left or right of the barrel. it's completely covered. i already gave all the effective armor while it's being sidescraped. i didn't make up numbers.

 

the is7 is not the 252. the is7 has a much weaker hull and when it sidescrapes it's easily penned. the 252 has a whole 100mm of armor more than the is7.

 

the pike nose design is a horrible, horrible weakness, it's just the 252 has an INSANE amount of armor that the loss of armor when angled does not matter at all.

 

there is nothing to argue here. these are the numbers wg gave the tank. even the mighty t34 shooting gold would not scratch the paint off the hull of a sidescraping 252.

 

that part of the hull below the mantlet is not even shown when sidescraping...that would mean the lfp would be showing. that's not how you sidescrape.

 

https://imgur.com/a/8hQPb1U

 

anything to the right of the barrel is out of view. and that's super steep. you can lessen the angle more with no problems.


Edited by otirruborez, 14 June 2020 - 01:05 PM.


_Crusader6_ #30 Posted 14 June 2020 - 01:01 PM

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Do yourself a favor. Go look at Armor Inspector.  
  BlitzHanger Armor models are pretty good - but not as detailed for weak spots as Armor Inspector. 
I pen a lot of 253U’s and get called a hacker when they try to sidescrape. 
 

It is a terrible tank to try that in, IF an opponent has a brain. 


 

 
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otirruborez #31 Posted 14 June 2020 - 01:10 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 14 June 2020 - 01:01 PM, said:

Do yourself a favor. Go look at Armor Inspector.  
  BlitzHanger Armor models are pretty good - but not as detailed for weak spots as Armor Inspector. 
I pen a lot of 253U’s and get called a hacker when they try to sidescrape. 
 

It is a terrible tank to try that in, IF an opponent has a brain. 

 

lol you're so lost. no reason to continue this. if you penned one then they overangled to where you penned the actual side of the tank or they forgot to hide their lfp. which means that's not even sidescraping. it was an attempt at best. the tank has 59% winrate and massive survival rate for a reason.


Edited by otirruborez, 14 June 2020 - 01:13 PM.


_Crusader6_ #32 Posted 14 June 2020 - 01:57 PM

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View Postotirruborez, on 14 June 2020 - 08:10 AM, said:

 

lol you're so lost. no reason to continue this. if you penned one then they overangled to where you penned the actual side of the tank or they forgot to hide their lfp. which means that's not even sidescraping. it was an attempt at best. the tank has 59% winrate and massive survival rate for a reason.


A failed 55% reroll who struggles in 8 and above badly tells me I am lost? 
 

I’ve said it’s strong because of players like you who can’t play well. 
  My point was I can destroy them because I actually know their weaknesses.  
 

If it angles to hide the lower plate - then there is a gap on the UFP 

  If it angles to hide that gap, the LFP is exposed before the gun.  
 

But hey keep up the condescending tone, it’s going to serve you really well...
 


 

 


 

 
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cheasesteak #33 Posted 14 June 2020 - 03:10 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 14 June 2020 - 12:39 PM, said:


if you angle the 252U in a manner to hide the lower plate on a sidescrape you expose some weak area way earlier - like the 56mm effective ‘gap’ after the UFP. At that angle it is just below the mantlet on the hull.   

 
 

For those of us that don’t have the paid version of armor inspector, which you need for premium tanks, can you more precisely describe where this weak spot is?   Or better yet point at it on a picture of a 252?


 

 


Kiwi_Kebab #34 Posted 14 June 2020 - 04:57 PM

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http://imgur.com/gallery/hNQPWmX

 

Here's a Lowe looking at a Obj. 252U. 

 

Seems like the gun can get out before the lower plate is exposed, but it's touchy. Being too narrow or too wide would not be difficult. The weakspots would be hard hits for heavies at medium range. 


Edited by Kiwi_Kebab, 14 June 2020 - 05:00 PM.


_Cletus #35 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:02 PM

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The 252 is situationally OP, but the tiger II is really strong in a lot more situations.  As Cru says, when he goes hull down, don't sit in front of him.  Save him for later or just get around him, either way outside of that position the 252 is vulnerable to everybody.  You might get away with sidescraping it sometimes, but that's risky.  It's strong, but tiger II is generally stronger I think.

 

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j_rod #36 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:21 PM

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View Postotirruborez, on 14 June 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

 

lol you're so lost. no reason to continue this. if you penned one then they overangled to where you penned the actual side of the tank or they forgot to hide their lfp. which means that's not even sidescraping. it was an attempt at best. the tank has 59% winrate and massive survival rate for a reason.


Let’s see....whose opinion to trust?

 

Reroll playing almost exclusively strong premiums that can only get a 55% winrate through 1100 games that has done nothing but argue with folks since they’ve been on the forum

 

Or

 

Long-term forumer with 65k games, almost every tank in the game and a 61% lifetime winrate.

 

Tough decision, truly. 


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_Crusader6_ #37 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:29 PM

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View PostKiwi_Kebab, on 14 June 2020 - 11:57 AM, said:

http://imgur.com/gallery/hNQPWmX

 

Here's a Lowe looking at a Obj. 252U. 

 

Seems like the gun can get out before the lower plate is exposed, but it's touchy. Being too narrow or too wide would not be difficult. The weakspots would be hard hits for heavies at medium range. 


Look beside the driver hatch.  
https://imgur.com/a/PI5p4GH

 

Depending on the height of the opposing tank, the 252U can be a very tough nut in a sidescrape - especially if it can’t aim for cupola or mantlet weakspot easily. 
  
Tanks that are lower get a decent turret ring shot, I found this issue against a T32 in my 252u and he nailed me several times - so I uploaded the replay and went looking in the shots in Armor Inspector.  
 

   Don’t get me wrong it’s a strong tank - but it can be farmed easily if you exploit the weak spots. 
       I utterly demolished one in my Pershing a few days ago - and he went off accusing me of hacking. 
   I just was patient and knew how and where to aim.  
  

 


    


 

 
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j_rod #38 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:35 PM

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View PostKiwi_Kebab, on 14 June 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

http://imgur.com/gallery/hNQPWmX

 

Here's a Lowe looking at a Obj. 252U. 

 

Seems like the gun can get out before the lower plate is exposed, but it's touchy. Being too narrow or too wide would not be difficult. The weakspots would be hard hits for heavies at medium range. 


That’s also firing AP. 


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_Crusader6_ #39 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:41 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 14 June 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:


That’s also firing AP. 


You can actually ammorack a side scraping 252U in a Löwe with APCR thru the lower part of the turret by the turret ring. 
     Ask me why I know and don’t side Scrape a 252U anymore....

 

 


 

 
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j_rod #40 Posted 14 June 2020 - 07:47 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 14 June 2020 - 01:41 PM, said:


You can actually ammorack a side scraping 252U in a Löwe with APCR thru the lower part of the turret by the turret ring. 
     Ask me why I know and don’t side Scrape a 252U anymore....

 

 

Yup

 

https://imgur.com/a/1fK6yh4

 

 


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