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Obj 252u vs. WZ-112-2 Celestial: Compare/Contrast and Authors Notes

252u Obj 252u WZ-112-2 112-2 Copare/Contrast Mr_2wertyxsads Thoughts

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Poll: BEFORE YOU READ! (11 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 5 battle in order to participate this poll.

Which tank do you think is better?

  1. Obj 252u (5 votes [45.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. 112-2 (6 votes [54.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.55%

There is no answer here, I want you to post your thoughts in the comments below about why you are suprised at my decision or why you agree with it.

  1. I like clicking buttons Though -_- (5 votes [45.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. You Don't tell me what I can and cannot do! (6 votes [54.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.55%

Vote Hide poll

Mr_2wertyxsad #1 Posted 24 September 2020 - 11:39 PM

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Round 2:  The 252u and the 112-2 Celestial: Titans of T8, pt. 1 of ?

I am back.  And by request of tankeatingtiger (AKA TET), I am going to cover the 252u and 112-2 Celestial.  These two tanks are both Communist clones of the IS-3, and there is many a debate about which one is the best.  I own both, and played both very well.  Allow me to walk you through the stats, personal thoughts, and my final conclusion about which one, once and for all, is the better clone.

 

The Object 252u:  Soviet Supreme, extra armor.

This tank is very, VERY, highly spoken about.  The turret armor, the UPF's, and even the rear are all capable of making even the most surely aimed shot bounce like a Sky Ball TM.  This tank boasts very strong armor, with the frontal reaching 130mm when flat, but the angle that it lies upon makes it upwards of 400mm at the right angles.  The tank also boasts a hugely strong turret aside from the cupolas, the front of the turret being upwards of 250mms, and almost tauntingly penable.  But don't be fooled, that's just the hitbox being weird.  The tank also boasts amazing pen for a heavy when using CS, with 236 AP pen,  278 APCR pen, and 75 HE pen.  Those pen numbers are more than enough to hit the weak spots of most T8/9 tanks, meaning that 7/10 times you won't even need to load Prammo.  While yes, it does have wimpy DPM of only 1,795, it makes up for the lack of damage dealing ability with the simple fact that if your enemy isn't a Lowe, VK 100.01(P) or a EXP, it will be unable to pen you without resorting to APCR/HEAT.

 

Another interesting thing about the 252u is the speed.  While having a 15.06 HP/tonne, it has only a 35km/h top speed.  That means you would do better crawling backwards through barbed wire while dragging 150 extra pounds of dumbbells on a leash while blindfolded in the rain and mud.  It has poor terrain resistance as well, 1.2/1.5/and 1.8 for roads, off road, and in water.  It has your standard T8 Heavy traverse of 26*, and 1910 health with the extra HP equipment(which is the recommended option, because +4% armor doesn't make your weak spots any more strong than they already are, just more HE resistant).  It has a shocking 20% camo rating while stationary, despite how big and heavy it is.  This tank is the quintessential Russian steel brick in T8 for good reason.  The tank's players all boast an average of 48.77% survivability, meaning that more often than not your tank will last the entire battle, dealing damage to the last.  There are many stories of being completely surrounded by red and bouncing shot after shot and causing many an aneurism, though in practice most enemies know where to aim and what to shoot to pen your tank like a block of moldy Italian Spaghetto cheese.

 

The WZ-112-2 Celestial:  Clone IS-346463131w

The Celestial is a workhorse, no lying.  This tank boasts some insane frontal armor versus most other heavies and mediums of same and even higher tier.  Having 140mms of frontal armor, but being sloped, makes it somewhere closer to 250+mms.  This tank, while boasting less armor on both the front and the turret than it's soviet counterpart, puts out more damage with a DPM of almost 100 more at 1893 with Calibrated Shells.  The 112-2 also has much better mobility stats, with 42km/h forward motion.  And trust me on this one, forward is about the only direction this tank goes.  It is very much able to steamroller over most other heavies it comes across, even other lesser skilled 112-2's.  It does have many drawbacks however.  The gun is the definition of "Hit or Miss."  There is no "I have a 99.999999999999% chance of hitting, I can't possibly miss!"  You have a 50/50 shot of hitting the dirt NEARBY the target, not about hitting the tank itself.  It also has a horrific cost repair factor of 5.7, which is quite high for if you want to try and make credits.  The gun has benefits however.  Because you have APCR standard ammo, you get HEAT as the Prammo, which gains a great boost from the CS you want to use on this tank.  The tank even has better pen than the 252u, with 226/297/67 for the pen of the APCR, HEAT, and HE respectively.

 

While this tank is lesser to the 252u on paper, in the field is a different story.  The 252u feels like a beached whale, the mobility really bogging down the armor by making it harder to weave yourself into a tizzy of cherry red before the enemies scope.  The WZ-112-2, with the extra mobility and speed, is able to get to positions faster, easier, and with greater success.  It lacks the pike nose and the frontal triangle that makes the 252u an easy target in the open, meaning the tank can better side scrape and move across open spaces with less headaches and more shocked laughter as you bounce two 640 shots off your turret armor.  The 112-2 also has a VERY forward mounted turret, meaning it does well in reverse side scrape situations and being dominant in being able to corner peek without exposing too much of the tank to enemy fire if they aren't expecting you.

 

The main issues I have with this tank is the cupolas.  Everyone is able to pen them it seems, and no matter what you cannot defend them.

 

Authors Notes and Experiences.

I own both of these tanks.  They are good tanks.  Very good and obedient to their driver.  But every machine has quirks, and these tanks are no exceptions.  In my 140 combined battles in each I have learned to cope with their weaknesses and lean on the strengths.

The 252u:  Slow and Steady gets you killed.

The title says it all.  This tank is SLOOOOOOW.  While it is faster than a VK 100 or a T28, it will not win you a cup in a drag racing training room.  The tank is meant for one thing only:  Driving into positions, clearing enemies and paving a path for the greens to follow you into the heat of battle behind, and wringing the salt from the tear filled eyes of those who blast "OPE TONK, NO SKILL" when people get killed with you in their line of sight.  The major quirk I've noticed is that if you angle like a Maus, but in moderation, and wiggle while hiding your LFP, you WILL bounce almost everything that gets lobbed at you.  Your ammo also has that Soviet bias we all love. 

 

252u:  This gun can make Grille tanks look on in awe.

The tank will hit shots on the move that will make you wanna march to WG HQ and kiss the code designer for this game on the wrist as tribute of the wonderful job they did breaking the shots accuracy.  I've won games by ammo racking mediums on the move and slapping heavies for 400 damage and then by the time they are reacting I am already behind cover.  Don't try this as your main strategy however.  The 252u has the usual 122mm Russian gun accuracy issues, where even fully aimed shots fly wide.  Patience is a virtue, and in the 252u it is a requirement.

 

252u:  Armor for days, but Pike noses a mile wide

This tank is great for armored combat and medium hunting.  They cannot pen you frontally, save for one glaring weakness:  The nose of the pike, specifically your LFP.  At less than 60mms, that triangle of sadness is the one weakness on a otherwise perfect frontal assault tank.  You spend more time hiding it and making sure people can't hit it than actually being mindful of what's going on in the battle and to downrange at the reds, meaning you miss out on chances to merc some damage and take some names.  The 252u also suffers from depression.  Or rather a lack of it.  6* is not a lot, but is better than most tanks that are soviet or Chinese designs get.  *Makes a sideways glance at the WZ-120*

 

WZ-112-2:  The Bears and the Bulls - You are not a bull

This tank CANNOT ram.  Don't try it, don't get close and ram.  This is an open invite to medium tanks to swarm you and out run your frontal armor.  What you want to do instead is bait tanks into hitting your UFP or sides, and use your armor profile to make reds waste their DPM and shells on you.  The more damage you absorb, the less is being dealt to your team, and the more .

 

112-2:  This gun makes you VERY angry VERY fast.

This gun is one of the worst in T8 in terms of accuracy without being motionless for 10+ seconds.  This tank is meant to bait shots and out trade without motion.  The way I use the gun is to block shots at closer range and to smack missiles out of the sky as they streak towards me from above.  The best use of your tanks gun, in terms of damage and pen, is to take yourself and go to the heavy flank.  You have the armor and penetration with HEAT to do some serious flank holding, with or without support.  Even though you have a sub 2k DPM, your 14 second reload is still scary to face when you have a high chance of bouncing the tank shooting you.

 

112-2:  No pike nose, less headaches.

Long and short story:  The pike nose design is a bygone era of Blitz.  Blitz now has many mobile or high pen tanks.  They negate the benefits of a hull down pike nose tank like the IS-3 or the Obj 252u.  You're lack of having to hide your LFP means you can focus less on what's in front of you like a low rock or a building chunk, and focus more on your angles and your positioning for side scrape and reverse side scrape.

 

Conclusions and Final, Determining Stats:

"Why did this take so long?" I hear you cry.  "Obviously it was the *indeterminable chatter from all the massed forums*"  Well worry not, I have a reason for everything I do, including what I choose not to do, like my homework and time management.

 

The 252u and the 112-2 are both amazing tanks with good and bad qualities.  But once before and once again, I turn to the stats to help my choice along.

 

The 252u and the 112-2 are both on the higher spectrum for the WR of T8 heavies.  But looking at the stats, the 252u leads in every category, save one.  60% average WR, 1.7k average damage, 1.34 D/R, 1 average kill, 2.13 KD/R, and 48.77% survivability, and 3541 players in the last 30 days.  The only stat where the 112-2 does better in is spots.  It gets 1.26 spots per battle compared to the 252u's 1.21 spots per battle.

 

So, according to the stats, the 252u is the better tank, and I support this claim.  The 252u has the armor, gun, and Russian bias needed to win most contests it finds itself in.  The Chinese Bear, while VERY close to the 252u, and surpassing it in many a category, has too many flaws to be a reliable and ready replacement for the self appointed King of T8.  The cupolas are easy to snipe.  The tank has a repair ratio of 5.7, as opposed to the 4.5 of the 252u, meaning it makes more credits.  The 252u can ALSO reverse side scrape, and in many ways better than the 112-2 because of the side armor being so strong.  The frontal armor, which is great in angled engagements, simply becomes metal to Prammo, as opposed to the 252u, who with a simple twist of the joy stick becomes cherry red in a face hug.

 

Both of these tanks are superb, and worth the buy.  I enjoyed my 112-2 more so than the 252u, simply because it was faster and didn't have a pike nose.  But time and again, when all else fails, I reach for my Russian Steel Block, and time and again it sings the sweet song of victory for me.

 

A big thanks to TET for asking me to review the 252u/112-2 rivalry, hopefully this helps put the argument to bed more or less.  Sorry for the text wall, hope you were entertained on the way down.


 

There's a time for talk and a Time for shooting.

Now Shut up and send 'em some Lead!


Eshga #2 Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:04 AM

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Owing the 112-2 and having played the 252u on a friend's account, I can say I much rather prefer the 112-2. the extra mobility really helps in getting where you want to fast, the gun is pretty good but like  what was said, its not very accurate. The armour is very good on both tanks but the 112-2 dosen't have that triangle of sadness like the 252u. Overall, the 112-2 in my opinion is a better tank because it is more balanced, the mobility is miles better and the armour isn't quite as troll but I still usually block 1000+ damage per match.                                                                                                                                                              

 

 

                                   P.S. bonus points if you got the 112-2 in the deal with the type 62

 

 

Thanks for reading, Eshga.


Just got type 62 and it’s AMAZING. At2 is op btw

Mr_2wertyxsad #3 Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:19 AM

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View PostEshga, on 24 September 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

Owing the 112-2 and having played the 252u on a friend's account, I can say I much rather prefer the 112-2. the extra mobility really helps in getting where you want to fast, the gun is pretty good but like  what was said, its not very accurate. The armour is very good on both tanks but the 112-2 dosen't have that triangle of sadness like the 252u. Overall, the 112-2 in my opinion is a better tank because it is more balanced, the mobility is miles better and the armour isn't quite as troll but I still usually block 1000+ damage per match.                                                                                                                                                              

 

 

                                   P.S. bonus points if you got the 112-2 in the deal with the type 62

 

 

Thanks for reading, Eshga.


Thank you for thanking me.  I actually was really neck and neck on my decision on which one was the "better" tank.  The stats were the only reason I did not declare the 112-2 the winner out of pure fanboyness.  I prefer the 112-2 over the 252u, but the 252u is the one tank in my garage where I can be angry, paying only half attention to m gameplay, and still pull a win.  They are still both amazing tanks and both have a permanent spot in my garage for as long as I will play this game.


 

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AYUWOOWUYA #4 Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:30 AM

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The secret OPness of the 112-2 is the reverse speed

_Crusader6_ #5 Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:56 AM

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You forgot to mention both are stupid brainless heavies and totally food for the T26E5 the thinking man's heavy.

 

 


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tankeatingtiger #6 Posted 25 September 2020 - 04:04 AM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 24 September 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

You forgot to mention both are stupid brainless heavies and totally food for the T26E5 the thinking man's heavy.

 

 

It's frightening to think that there are people who still cling blindly to the AX > Sheriff school of thought. :ohmy:


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otirruborez #7 Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:20 AM

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the main advantage the 252 has is the fact it can sidescrape even though it has a pike nose. even with gold you will not pierce an angled 252 hull on even ground(its weakest point). cs gold will go straight through the 112-2 hull if they don't feel like taking time to aim at the turret cheeks.

 

also helps a third of the side of the tank will bounce gold rounds.

 


Edited by otirruborez, 25 September 2020 - 06:24 AM.


whatzup22 #8 Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:29 AM

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View Postotirruborez, on 25 September 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

the main advantage the 252 has is the fact it can sidescrape even though it has a pike nose. even with gold you will not pierce an angled 252 hull on even ground(its weakest point). cs gold will go straight through the 112-2 hull if they don't feel like taking time to aim at the turret cheeks.

 

also helps a third of the side of the tank will bounce gold rounds.

 

Dont forget the back



otirruborez #9 Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:39 AM

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View Postwhatzup22, on 25 September 2020 - 06:29 AM, said:

Dont forget the back

yea that's part of the side armor since it angles over there. the tank is a complete joke tbh.


Edited by otirruborez, 25 September 2020 - 07:39 AM.


thenerfdude #10 Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:47 AM

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The 252 has a slight edge in alpha since it has 420 compared to the normal 400 alpha. It would almost always win trades unless you are fighting tds.

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_Cletus #11 Posted 25 September 2020 - 12:50 PM

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Very nice writeup, this and the comparison you did yesterday are both fine pieces of work and are good for the forums and the game, so thank you.  

 

I prefer the WZ-112-2.  The pike nose on the 252u ruins it for me.  When I got my WZ it was super rare, sometimes people thought I was a tester.  Since it was one of my first premiums that I truly loved, I might be biased towards it, and my pike nose hate might bias me away from the 252u.  The 252u seems to be overrated, and the WZ seems to be correctly rated, in the minds of the general populace, which is kind of interesting to me.  


 

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Mr_2wertyxsad #12 Posted 25 September 2020 - 01:41 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 25 September 2020 - 06:50 AM, said:

Very nice writeup, this and the comparison you did yesterday are both fine pieces of work and are good for the forums and the game, so thank you.  

 

I prefer the WZ-112-2.  The pike nose on the 252u ruins it for me.  When I got my WZ it was super rare, sometimes people thought I was a tester.  Since it was one of my first premiums that I truly loved, I might be biased towards it, and my pike nose hate might bias me away from the 252u.  The 252u seems to be overrated, and the WZ seems to be correctly rated, in the minds of the general populace, which is kind of interesting to me.  


To tell you the truth Cletus, the WZ only was edged out of the winners circle due to the stats and the alpha difference.  The two tanks are very similar and both are better in certain situations over the other.  I also prefer the WZ over the 252u, but I make my decisions based on stats, not "BeCaUsE I LiKe It MoRe," like many other posts about these tanks have gone.


 

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Now Shut up and send 'em some Lead!


_Cletus #13 Posted 25 September 2020 - 02:17 PM

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View PostMr_2wertyxsad, on 25 September 2020 - 07:41 AM, said:


To tell you the truth Cletus, the WZ only was edged out of the winners circle due to the stats and the alpha difference.  The two tanks are very similar and both are better in certain situations over the other.  I also prefer the WZ over the 252u, but I make my decisions based on stats, not "BeCaUsE I LiKe It MoRe," like many other posts about these tanks have gone.

 

That's probably a better way.  I make my decisions based on the guidance I receive from my spirit animal [the platypus, a bill that seeks prey and poisonous claws behind, never noticed because of a comical exterior] while on a ayahuasca journey.


 

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