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What Pen should you have as a Heavy?


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BillyNair #1 Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:29 PM

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As a Light, your roll isnt so much to slug it out, so your pen isnt really much of a concern when deciding on a tank, but, as a Heavy, you usually need to go face to face with an OP armored tank since you cant get around to flank him often. Is there a general rule of thumb when deciding on your next tank to get as far as Pen goes?

 

For me, the faster reload is way Way WAY more important than Max damage (I will take a BP over a Smasher all day every day! And I will only us the AT7 with the baby gun and play the support roll) So, when I go to get a Heavy, and trying to decide between a few, I look at ROF long before DPM. But, I still am not sure what "Penetration" I should be looking for. Is there a general rule like 30mm per Tier, so at Tier 7 you have 210mm or whatever? I have been wondering this for a while, but now that I have grinded about all I care to under 8s, and looking at going up to get more 8-10s, I am seeing that Pen plays a lot more into choosing a tank than it did before.

 

And, how much consideration should I put into the AP vs APCR? Like, as a Heavy, is there a minimum pen that my AP needs to be before the reliance on Prammo is just too restrictive to the point where I will be spending too much to stay stay in the game?



generalhonks #2 Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:39 PM

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As much pen as you can get I guess. I don’t play heavies that much so my opinions don’t really matter that much.


 

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__Frostbite #3 Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:51 PM

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There is no general rule of thumb for penetration in a class, but there is a very blurry line for what is acceptable and what is not for certain tiers.

This is just gonna be a list of what pen is going to be needed to go through heavies frontally at each tier:


At Tier 10, you can pen nearly everything frontally with 330mm of HEAT or 320mm of APCR. If that means running Calibrated Shells to get that pen, that's usually worth it for most players. As for standard shells, 260mm of AP pen is pretty good for taking care of lower plates and any other weak spots frontally.
At Tier 9, its helpful to have 330/320 pen to pen Tier 10's, but that's going to be overkill for Tier 8's. You can make do with 300mm HEAT/290 APCR pen. AP should be around 240mm.
At Tier 8, I would recommend having at least 250mm of HEAT or 240mm of APCR. Tier 8 heavies are surprisingly strong now. 220mm of AP pen is plenty, anything above 200mm will work.

I don't play enough Tier 5-7 to really know what pen is required, but I'll give it my best shot. Basically the lower tier's prammo should be roughly equal to the higher tier's standard.

Tier 7: Basically take the AP from Tier 8 and apply that to Tier 7 prammo. Most tanks at this tier don't have HEAT, so 200mm of APCR will do and 220mm of APCR is good. 170mm of AP pen is fine.
Tier 6: 170mm of APCR, 130mm of AP.
Tier 5: 130mm of APCR, 100mm of AP.


To be honest, I don't really look at penetration all that much. Credits have never been and never will be a reason for me to not spam prammo when needed. My mentality is that I do whatever I need to do to give me the best chances at winning. 99% of the time, I start by firing standard shells and I judge each shot case-by-case to see what shell makes the most sense. I usually will make a reasonable effort to pen with standard shells because more damage, but if I have to take unreasonable shots to pen with standard, it's time to load the gold. If I still can't pen, I either switch to HE (rarely) or find a new target/relocate. Occasionally, I'll still relocate or pick a different target even if I can pen a tank with gold that's in front of me, because sometimes its more important to take out a certain tank that is more dangerous to my team rather than just taking every damage opportunity that I have.
 


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THERebrth #4 Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:56 PM

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Pen is important, but different tanks are suited for different situations, and your job as the driver is to put yourself in positions where you can be useful. Its not a question of "how much pen i should have", its "how do I play this tank in particular". If you know how to play different tanks, pen is only a very tiny issue since what you lack in pen is going to be made up in different other stats.

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LordDumptruck #5 Posted 26 November 2020 - 09:11 PM

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The 2 ways I try it are:

On German and Japanese lines, or tanks whose guns generally havehigh pen stats, I start with gun rammer and then if I feel like I’m having trouble with dealing more damage than I’m taking, I shift to calibrated shells

On lines where either word on the street is that pen isn’t as good or I don’t know how the pen is going to fare, I start with calibrated shells and then shift to gun rammer if I have an easy time penning heavies in one on ones and frontal pushes

 

Generally I prefer to have a faster reload on my heavies than calibrated shells: it’s not for 100% of my tanks, but in the late game when I’m down to one on one fighting I have bounced a lot of standard ammo rounds off my opponents even with calibrated rounds when at close range, and if I switch to prammo for a sure pen I may need that faster reload to out dpm my opponent. 
 

Except for tier ten-heavies with APCR/HEAT ammo/prammo rounds benefit a lot from that calibrated shell boost. 



j_rod #6 Posted 26 November 2020 - 09:25 PM

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The key is to look at all the attributes of the tank you’re playing and then to play in a manner that maximizes the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses. If you have lower pen, but better gun handling, aim for the weak spots or get on the sides or rear of reds if you’re mobile. If you have high pen and alpha but slow reload, make sure you don’t get caught where you can get rushed.

Every tank has strengths and every tank has weaknesses. You win by using the strengths and mitigating the weaknesses.

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Mako__Reizei___ #7 Posted 26 November 2020 - 10:39 PM

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I'd personally go with Calibrated Shells. DPM is irrelevant if you can't penetrate your shots and you need to sometimes finish off a heavily armored target. The DPM boost that Gun Rammer gives in today's meta doesn't really cut it for me, 7% boost seems so measly when you can consistently pump out that damage with CS. And CS is kind of a staple imo since you'll definitely want to be able to pen your shots when you need to trade and seeing that mediums often have HEAT for gold rounds CS makes an even bigger difference. 

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Morphman_ #8 Posted 27 November 2020 - 02:44 AM

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Taking a BP over the Smasher is the most hilarious thing I have heard today. In a 1v1 situation the Smasher wins without question. The Smasher is the most beautiful vehicle out there. Cease your heresy.

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Morphman_ #9 Posted 27 November 2020 - 02:45 AM

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View PostMako__Reizei___, on 26 November 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'd personally go with Calibrated Shells. DPM is irrelevant if you can't penetrate your shots and you need to sometimes finish off a heavily armored target. The DPM boost that Gun Rammer gives in today's meta doesn't really cut it for me, 7% boost seems so measly when you can consistently pump out that damage with CS. And CS is kind of a staple imo since you'll definitely want to be able to pen your shots when you need to trade and seeing that mediums often have HEAT for gold rounds CS makes an even bigger difference. 

Have you heard of aiming? 


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Ronin_23 #10 Posted 27 November 2020 - 03:04 AM

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If enemy tanks are too red, too often, you need more pen. 

Please correct my comma splices.


LordDumptruck #11 Posted 27 November 2020 - 03:26 AM

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View PostAnathsHairy3rdLeg, on 27 November 2020 - 02:45 AM, said:

Have you heard of aiming? 

That’s all you have to contribute? Aiming has its limits if your penetration doesn’t give you more options. 



Morphman_ #12 Posted 27 November 2020 - 03:34 AM

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View PostLordDumptruck, on 26 November 2020 - 09:26 PM, said:

That’s all you have to contribute? Aiming has its limits if your penetration doesn’t give you more options. 

Have you heard of weak points?


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TheMainframe #13 Posted 27 November 2020 - 03:45 AM

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View PostAnathsHairy3rdLeg, on 26 November 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

Have you heard of weak points?

Some guns have such bad pen that "weak spots" for the average tank will still be red. These tanks will need CS to offset the lack.

 

You might as well just say "git gud" lol


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LordDumptruck #14 Posted 27 November 2020 - 03:46 AM

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View PostAnathsHairy3rdLeg, on 27 November 2020 - 03:34 AM, said:

Have you heard of weak points?

News to me, here I’ve thought all tanks are impenetrable and this game just didn’t make any sense. 



Mako__Reizei___ #15 Posted 28 November 2020 - 12:02 AM

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I think we have Morphman 2.0

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j_rod #16 Posted 28 November 2020 - 12:06 AM

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View PostMako__Reizei___, on 27 November 2020 - 06:02 PM, said:

I think we have Morphman 2.0


Or the Artist Formerly Known as Morphman


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LordDumptruck #17 Posted 28 November 2020 - 01:08 AM

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I mean to be fair, aiming AT weak points is something I should incorporate into my game. 

_BobaFett #18 Posted 28 November 2020 - 01:09 AM

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View PostLordDumptruck, on 27 November 2020 - 08:08 PM, said:

I mean to be fair, aiming AT weak points is something I should incorporate into my game. 

Wait, you can aim in this game??? 

 

Pfft, I don't believe you. Next you're gonna tell me you can drive in this game too. *defiant shrug*


Edited by Nathanronco, 28 November 2020 - 01:10 AM.

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LordDumptruck #19 Posted 28 November 2020 - 01:11 AM

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View PostNathanronco, on 28 November 2020 - 01:09 AM, said:

Wait, you can aim in this game??? 

 

Pfft, I don't believe you. Next you're gonna tell me you can drive in this game too. *defiant shrug*

*smirk

ever heard of STEERING?



_BobaFett #20 Posted 28 November 2020 - 01:19 AM

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View PostLordDumptruck, on 27 November 2020 - 08:11 PM, said:

*smirk

ever heard of STEERING?


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