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Airborne_Jawbreaker #21 Posted 26 February 2021 - 01:02 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 February 2021 - 03:10 AM, said:


Yes clearly that’s why you have stats like a bot? 
    The last thing I need is to here about the game from a sub 1 damage ratio player. 
 

 

The only thing more liberating than the ability to turn off the chat function in this game is realizing stats are for barrel polishers like yourself. Turns out if you ignore them you can just play the game. I couldn't give two dog droppings what your win rate/hit rate/insert your favorite metric here. I've seen low stat players run circles around people who've bought their wins. I'm not wasting my time carrying mouth breathers just to try and protect my numbers. The game is too biased for it to matter.

 



_Crusader6_ #22 Posted 26 February 2021 - 01:41 PM

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View PostAirborne_Jawbreaker, on 26 February 2021 - 08:02 AM, said:

 

The only thing more liberating than the ability to turn off the chat function in this game is realizing stats are for barrel polishers like yourself. Turns out if you ignore them you can just play the game. I couldn't give two dog droppings what your win rate/hit rate/insert your favorite metric here. I've seen low stat players run circles around people who've bought their wins. I'm not wasting my time carrying mouth breathers just to try and protect my numbers. The game is too biased for it to matter.

 


You where the one here ranting here about teams.  
   Y’think maybe that could partially be the reason that I and a few others called you out.  
 

Your biggest problem is you think you are a decent player, when your actually just a muppet who prefers to blame their team for their own inabilities to understand the game. 

By all means don’t let me stop you continuing on your mad because bad complaints.  
 

 


 


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j_rod #23 Posted 26 February 2021 - 02:28 PM

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View PostAirborne_Jawbreaker, on 26 February 2021 - 07:02 AM, said:

 

The only thing more liberating than the ability to turn off the chat function in this game is realizing stats are for barrel polishers like yourself. Turns out if you ignore them you can just play the game. I couldn't give two dog droppings what your win rate/hit rate/insert your favorite metric here. I've seen low stat players run circles around people who've bought their wins. I'm not wasting my time carrying mouth breathers just to try and protect my numbers. The game is too biased for it to matter.


Stats show competency over time. Anyone that says otherwise has clearly never played sports, been in business or lived in the real world but based on your posts, I’m pretty sure you know how relevant stats are.

 

That said, your comments above are completely disingenuous. “I’m not wasting my time carrying mouth breathers” reads as “I’m not capable of overcoming the shortcomings of my teammates.” You also state that “The game is too biased to matter” while posting on the online forum dedicated to the game? Get the **** outta here with that.


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


Airborne_Jawbreaker #24 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:03 PM

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You continue to prove my point. The games stats are there to make you feel so good about yourself just like the military honor system. If you were allowed to give me negative ratings after every match maybe I'd care that I chose to play with teams that are participating rather than carrying campers and AFKs. Carrying is like having a job, I don't come here to work for your ego. Last time I checked the stats didn't give you anything other than something to wave around like they really matter. If this were a sport I'd get to pick my team, so you take a hit on your asthma inhaler and go back to bragging about your meaningless stats. I'll go on trolling you LEROY JENKINNNSSS!!!

j_rod #25 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:30 PM

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View PostAirborne_Jawbreaker, on 26 February 2021 - 09:03 AM, said:

You continue to prove my point. The games stats are there to make you feel so good about yourself just like the military honor system. If you were allowed to give me negative ratings after every match maybe I'd care that I chose to play with teams that are participating rather than carrying campers and AFKs. Carrying is like having a job, I don't come here to work for your ego. Last time I checked the stats didn't give you anything other than something to wave around like they really matter. If this were a sport I'd get to pick my team, so you take a hit on your asthma inhaler and go back to bragging about your meaningless stats. I'll go on trolling you LEROY JENKINNNSSS!!!


Stats are there bc stats are there. People like to see how they’re playing. We can go philosophical about whether they matter or not, but clearly they matter enough to you to respond and deflect. 

 

As a simple analogy, if I had to pick 11 players for my pick-up soccer game, you’d be the 8th or 9th pick based on how you play. Why? Bc any time I’m doing something competitive, I play to win and you are far less likely to help in that endeavor than most others. 

 

Solid video game reference to finish your trolling. Dork. 


Edited by j_rod, 26 February 2021 - 03:31 PM.

Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
 

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_Crusader6_ #26 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:34 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 26 February 2021 - 10:30 AM, said:


Stats are there bc stats are there. People like to see how they’re playing. We can go philosophical about whether they matter or not, but clearly they matter enough to you to respond and deflect. 

 

As a simple analogy, if I had to pick 11 players for my pick-up soccer game, you’d be the 8th or 9th pick based on how you play. Why? Bc any time I’m doing something competitive, I play to win and you are far less like to help in that endeavor than most others. 

 

Solid video game reference to finish your trolling. Dork. 


He'd be picked 12th as the waterway - and I'm not sure I'm 100% he's competent enough for that role.

 

Thread in a nutshell

 

OP: complains about teams, and how MH doesn't mean anything (shocker)

Forum: points out that based on the OP's actions and stats he's the issue.

OP: Stats don't matter 

FORUM: :facepalm:


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j_rod #27 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:40 PM

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Airborne, you’ve played this game for 119 days, 17 hrs and 15 mins. You are a fantastic illustration of the fact that experience does not necessarily create skill. 

View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 February 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:


He'd be picked 12th as the waterway - and I'm not sure I'm 100% he's competent enough for that role.

 

Thread in a nutshell

 

OP: complains about teams, and how MH doesn't mean anything (shocker)

Forum: points out that based on the OP's actions and stats he's the issue.

OP: Stats don't matter 

FORUM: :facepalm:


Thing is, he’s right about MH being irrelevant and I agree that there is a level of player that needs to be segregated from the player base due their total inability to contribute. However, to suggest that MH should be used to penalize people for bad play just shows that this guy isn’t capable of looking in the mirror. Heaven forbid he ever takes a job in sales bc his family would starve. 


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


Ronin_23 #28 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:42 PM

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When you're good, people on your team will occasionally say things like "stacked team nice" or ask you to call a direction so they can support you. The enemy team will sometimes have a monke or two who say "gg WG sponsored players on red.... RIGGED" and yolo and die.

 

Stats don't matter if you don't have an impact on the game. All the leftover stats are mine, and I will happily take them if you don't want them.



_Crusader6_ #29 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:47 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 26 February 2021 - 10:40 AM, said:

Airborne, you’ve played this game for 119 days, 17 hrs and 15 mins. You are a fantastic illustration of the fact that experience does not necessarily create skill. 


Thing is, he’s right about MH being irrelevant and I agree that there is a level of player that needs to be segregated from the player base due their total inability to contribute. However, to suggest that MH should be used to penalize people for bad play just shows that this guy isn’t capable of looking in the mirror. Heaven forbid he ever takes a job in sales bc his family would starve. 


As soon as we noted a player could only get 10 downvotes a day I knew MH was flawed before it launched.

  That is a no brainer.

 

As to the player base issue:  Here comes the crux of the matter, where does one draw the line?

   I think we all agree that trolls, exploiters etc should be banned - or at least put in a queue that they can only affect other clowns.

 BUT beyond that - where is the line? 

  Someone I think isn't a valued contributor some others may think is a decent player, and honestly if I wanted to play tier X with all 60%'ers I'd just play tournaments.

    It's hard work playing against 2.7k avg dmg + players - while playing pubbie games are fairly easy to carry - as both teams have been drawn from the same bucket of stuff SD mentioned.

 

The OP seems to think he's a decent player - but the only reason I'd want him in my battle queue is to farm damage - or let me get more damage and kills if he is green.

 

Then you take some of the tier X Super Unicums, and they'd be saying the same thing about me - 

 

You cannot make an arbitrary line in this game, as the skill levels are so vastly different.

 

But you will note MM rants don't get posted by 60%+ players.

 


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j_rod #30 Posted 26 February 2021 - 03:51 PM

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View PostRonin_23, on 26 February 2021 - 09:42 AM, said:

When you're good, people on your team will occasionally say things like "stacked team nice" or ask you to call a direction so they can support you. The enemy team will sometimes have a monke or two who say "gg WG sponsored players on red.... RIGGED" and yolo and die.

 

Stats don't matter if you don't have an impact on the game. All the leftover stats are mine, and I will happily take them if you don't want them.


^^^ this. When I look at who is on my team or red’s and see a player that I know is an upper 60%er, I know that they are more likely to impact the game. I don’t say to myself “well, the game is actually rigged and that player got lucky with their winrate and 2.5k average damage.” 

 

This is such a silly discussion and it’s continually driven by people that are incapable of acknowledging (and addressing) their own shortcomings. 

 

Or in summary - mad because bad. 


Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


j_rod #31 Posted 26 February 2021 - 04:32 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 26 February 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:


As soon as we noted a player could only get 10 downvotes a day I knew MH was flawed before it launched.

  That is a no brainer.

 

As to the player base issue:  Here comes the crux of the matter, where does one draw the line?

   I think we all agree that trolls, exploiters etc should be banned - or at least put in a queue that they can only affect other clowns.

 BUT beyond that - where is the line? 

  Someone I think isn't a valued contributor some others may think is a decent player, and honestly if I wanted to play tier X with all 60%'ers I'd just play tournaments.

    It's hard work playing against 2.7k avg dmg + players - while playing pubbie games are fairly easy to carry - as both teams have been drawn from the same bucket of stuff SD mentioned.

 

The OP seems to think he's a decent player - but the only reason I'd want him in my battle queue is to farm damage - or let me get more damage and kills if he is green.

 

Then you take some of the tier X Super Unicums, and they'd be saying the same thing about me - 

 

You cannot make an arbitrary line in this game, as the skill levels are so vastly different.

 

But you will note MM rants don't get posted by 60%+ players.

 


Ever see that PETA meme asking the rhetorical question about where to draw the line and the response is this? Point being, I believe there is a certain level of player that detracts from the game bc of their inability to make any basic contribution. It’s the equivalent of putting a 10 year old into a grown-up’s basketball game. Sure they might throw up a random shot and make it on occasion, but for the most part it means that their team is playing a man down when they’re in. 

 

As far as what the actual line is - we’ve always said winrate is a pretty solid proxy for skill right? I think it’s as simple as taking the bottom 5% of players by winrate with a minimum number of battles played and segregating them out into their own training queue. I also think that WG shouldn’t try to hide this from the players, but should let them know in a positive way that they are trying to help and then let them graduate back up into the standard queue when they’ve achieved a certain determined criteria.

 

I understand the perceived risks/concerns with removing any players from the basic queue, but I also think that WG underestimates the negative impact these types of players have to the game. Without any data to back it up, I’d speculate that any incremental revenue derived from this bottom 5% is offset by the negative impact they have on the game. The perception alone that WG acknowledges the issues would be a solid PR move IMHO and show that they are proactively trying to address the issue. 


Edited by j_rod, 26 February 2021 - 04:32 PM.

Eventually given an infinite number of typewriters and an infinite number of Monkeys, they will come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. - C6 articulating the Infinite Monkey Theorem
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


acrisis #32 Posted 26 February 2021 - 06:06 PM

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Trolling and serial unfair play deserves downvotes and banning.  Beyond that, there's not much that can be done.
Players of all levels are allowed to play on a scale of poor, below average, average, above average and great. 

 

If you are under the weather, you may pick the game up to pass the time, but you play less well than usual ... should that not be allowed?
If somebody has physical limitations due to age, illness or injury ... should they be excluded?
People with weaker devices and poorer connections?
 

MM gives and MM takes. 

 

MH will likely be improved. 
WG has said they will play closer attention to trolls and botters. 

And as far as all the insults ... at least try to stay classy. 

 


 

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_Crusader6_ #33 Posted 26 February 2021 - 06:26 PM

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View PostRonin_23, on 26 February 2021 - 10:42 AM, said:

Stats don't matter if you don't have an impact on the game. All the leftover stats are mine, and I will happily take them if you don't want them.

Everyone has an impact on the games they play.  
   Some impacts just aren’t positive...

 

Everyone needs to understand it is a first and foremost a mobile game. 
  There is a reason the top level tournaments are mobile device only.  
 

Once we all understand it’s a F2P Mobile game - then what comes with that needs to be an acceptance of the vastly diverse skill of the player base.  
  
If a player wants to have a bigger impact on the games they play, they need to live longer and do more dmg and get more kills.  
   It doesn’t matter what the teams are.  Play your best - try to win, and guess what, you will win a lot more than not trying.  
 

The difference between a 55% player and a 60% player while large is usually just 1-2 extra pens a game.  
  The same goes for 60-65% etc.  

   

Survive longer, while doing more damage and you will win longer.  
   Sitting back and not doing damage early is just as bad as yolo’ing and dying early.  
 

You need to focus fire and get red tanks out of game, while trying to ensure you aren’t getting knocked out of game early.  
     Even a sometimes hopeless position can drive a win, as you can survive long enough and do enough damage before you die that you occupied red long enough for your team to reach the fight.  
 

 


I hate Annihilator spammers...  

 
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Airborne_Jawbreaker #34 Posted 26 February 2021 - 08:07 PM

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The question was what is the point of the MH system if there are unlimited positive votes and only limited negative votes. You disagree with my playing style, which is fine. Can you voice that by calling me out with the MH system? So what's the point? Take away the penalties, give everyone equal or unlimited up and down votes and make me a two star player in my opinion. Right now I'm 5-Star awesome. Y'all know darn well the point of the MH system was to cut down on the number of player penalty requests going to WG. You think a down vote means something and move on. At the same time you get constant up votes so you think you are pretty sweet. WG gets to avoid hiring moderators and everyone is happy.

Kiwi_Kebab #35 Posted 26 February 2021 - 09:23 PM

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I think he just wants an Ineffective/Selfish Player/Unlucky/Antisocial set of complaints that don't cause bans, but just subtract from someone's MH star rating. 

 

MH Praises are tied to game performance, while MH Complaints are tied to game behavior. Due to the nature of praises, it is easy to see how players associate complaints in the same way. 

 

The problem remains that there are players that legitimately and systematically go out of their way to violate game rules. We want a system that gets rid of these players. Current Military Honor just makes people less likely to send tickets in, meaning rule violators will be more common given that the alternative system (MH) barely works. 


Edited by Kiwi_Kebab, 26 February 2021 - 09:24 PM.

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__V_O_P__ #36 Posted 27 February 2021 - 12:22 AM

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View PostKiwi_Kebab, on 26 February 2021 - 09:23 PM, said:

I think he just wants an Ineffective/Selfish Player/Unlucky/Antisocial set of complaints that don't cause bans, but just subtract from someone's MH star rating. 

 

MH Praises are tied to game performance, while MH Complaints are tied to game behavior. Due to the nature of praises, it is easy to see how players associate complaints in the same way. 

 

The problem remains that there are players that legitimately and systematically go out of their way to violate game rules. We want a system that gets rid of these players. Current Military Honor just makes people less likely to send tickets in, meaning rule violators will be more common given that the alternative system (MH) barely works. 

 

Stop wanting. Start suggesting. What system are you suggesting that can deal with egregious breaches yet also cannot be used by the same players to troll normal folk AND doesn't mean more work for WG?



Airborne_Jawbreaker #37 Posted 27 February 2021 - 02:41 PM

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View Post__V_O_P__, on 27 February 2021 - 12:22 AM, said:

 

Stop wanting. Start suggesting. What system are you suggesting that can deal with egregious breaches yet also cannot be used by the same players to troll normal folk AND doesn't mean more work for WG?

I made the suggestion

  1. Cut automatic penalties from the MH system
  2. Give equal number of positive and negative votes (Currently it takes multiple negative votes in a match for a vote to register, I'm open to an argument for keeping this feature to avoid spamming green tanks/players)
  3. Continue to use the reporting system for the egregious violations


Kiwi_Kebab #38 Posted 27 February 2021 - 06:07 PM

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View Post__V_O_P__, on 26 February 2021 - 06:22 PM, said:

 

Stop wanting. Start suggesting. What system are you suggesting that can deal with egregious breaches yet also cannot be used by the same players to troll normal folk AND doesn't mean more work for WG?

I don't know. I don't suggest because I do not purport to be good enough (or paid enough) to develop a technology better than a whole team of game developers that would personally benefit from creating the proper system themselves. I do not have access to their finances, I cannot know what system would be cheaper, efficient, etc. I am a player on the outside of the black-box who only sees that MH in its current form is not only irrelevant, but makes the problem worse by reducing the amount of cheaters who go through actually support tickets. A 3-hour ban is nothing to these cheaters but a badge of honor, and that's the best Ive seen MH do.

 

I am also not saying that such a system would be easy to optimize, which is exactly why I would rather leave it to the professionals to create. Most player suggestions for this miss the mark, why would mine be any different? I have no responsibility to do WG's job for them. I will tell them when their systems don't work though, being one of the affected parties.


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