392 replies to this topic

[DisordeR_]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

 

Only wins made in platoon are penalized. Not all wins. If you have 10000 wins and only 1000 wins made in platoon then your adjusted number of wins will be 9700. You only lose 300 of wins made when played in platoons. It is perceived that you have 0.7 wins playing solo for 1 win you booked playing platoon. So your platoon wins will be taken with a bit of salt. I do not buy the story that player who win 70 of 100 times with platoon would win the same 70 times playing the same battles solo. 

 

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

 

I for one see no problem in having stats adjusted based on platooning. I'll be the first to admit that my WR would be lower if I never platooned. In fact it was solely BECAUSE I platooned with players better than myself that I became a more proficienct player. 

 

Anyone saying platooning doesn't increase your chances of winning isn't being honest with themselves. 

 

I'm not arguing for no penalty, but saying that you would lose 30 more battles out of 100 if solo just seems high to me.  I'm fairly certain if I ran 100 games solo and 100 platooned that I would have fewer losses but I would guess it would be closer to 10-15 less. Again, just my thoughts having played a lot of battles. 

[_law]

96% of victories in a platoon. I can't say I agree with platoon penalties but I just want a noob radar.

[thunderthies]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

 

 

	battles	wins	platoon wins	Platon wins adjustment	Platoon wins penalty	Adjusted wins	Win Rate	Adjusted win rate	Diff
jmstichler	13560	8502	2889	0.3	867	7635	62.7	56.31	6.39
Serapth	3384	1848	23	0.3	7	1841	54.61	54.4	0.21
fullestnuke	9402	7659	7362	0.3	2209	5450	81.46	57.97	23.49

 

Meh. This seems to be weighted a little too heavily. I can personally attest to Nuke's skill and while he always rocks the platoon, he is far above a 57.97 WR player. I stil feel it's reasonable to make an adjustment based on platoon victories, but perhaps it should be adjusted slightly. 

[twosp2]

Yeah there should be a coefficient for platooning I just don't think nearly that high. Take as mentioned above fullest. He has mainly platoon wins but is a amazing player regardless having faced him many times. I don't think this factors the platoons total individual skill enough.

 

This is a really awesome job though Face!

 

 

[thunderthies]

jmstichler, on 05 February 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

 

 

I'm not arguing for no penalty, but saying that you would lose 30 more battles out of 100 if solo just seems high to me.  I'm fairly certain if I ran 100 games solo and 100 platooned that I would have fewer losses but I would guess it would be closer to 10-15 less. Again, just my thoughts having played a lot of battles. 

 

Agreed. The adjustment is weighted too heavily IMO.

[Unicorn143]

jmstichler, on 05 February 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

 

 

I'm not arguing for no penalty, but saying that you would lose 30 more battles out of 100 if solo just seems high to me.  I'm fairly certain if I ran 100 games solo and 100 platooned that I would have fewer losses but I would guess it would be closer to 10-15 less. Again, just my thoughts having played a lot of battles. 

 

Do you want to run a test ? Would you be honest ? We will first run 100 platoon games (10 each tier)  together and then 100 games each of us alone the same tank and see how good we score platoon and and solo ?

[thunderthies]

Face, please take these comments as constructive criticism. I think it's safe to say we're all overwhelmingly happy with your work and are quite appreciative of it.

[Unicorn143]

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

 

Agreed. The adjustment is weighted too heavily IMO.

 

Fine. What would be the fair rate ? 0.1 0.2 0.3 ?

[Serapth]

As I said earlier, shouldn't it be possibly to figure out win rate platooned ( that's a given ), total games played, and total wins, and use that to calculate what percentage of times the player wins platooned vs what they win unplatooned, then use that delta as your modifier.  So people that stink unplatooned get a greater modifier than those that are equally good in and out of platoons.

[Unicorn143]

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

Face, please take these comments as constructive criticism. I think it's safe to say we're all overwhelmingly happy with your work and are quite appreciative of it.

 

Only what I want to do is to be fair. If people like fullestnuke just take an honest approach and play solo at least 20 games and then 20 games platooning. We can compare their performance. But they HAVE TO BE HONEST! Otherwise it does not make sense.

[thunderthies]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

 

Fine. What would be the fair rate ? 0.1 0.2 0.3 ?

 

Frankly I couldn't say with any degree of certainty. Perhaps someone with more mathematical expertise can chime in. Thank you again for hearing our concerns!

[DisordeR_]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

 

Do you want to run a test ? Would you be honest ? We will first run 100 platoon games (10 each tier)  together and then 100 games each of us alone the same tank and see how good we score platoon and and solo ?

 

Absolutely, but I'm not sure how long that would take. It's probable that no matter what number you use someone will be pissed off - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like thunder says, I am in no way criticizing the tremendous work you have done so far and I am in awe at the skills needed to put that together that fast. Just making constructive suggestions that should not in any way be taken offensively. 

[Unicorn143]

Serapth, on 05 February 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

As I said earlier, shouldn't it be possibly to figure out win rate platooned?

 

Not possible. It is unknown. We do not know how many times player been in platoon playing this tank. We only know how many times he won playing in platoon.

[Blazin40s]

Interesting idea on the platoon victories. It would also be interesting to see with and without the platoon victories derating

[thunderthies]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

 

Only what I want to do is to be fair. If people like fullestnuke just take an honest approach and play solo at least 20 games and then 20 games platooning. We can compare their performance. But they HAVE TO BE HONEST! Otherwise it does not make sense.

 

Agreed. As I mentioned, anyone unwillingly to admit that platooning positively impacts their WR is not being honest. For example, in my IS-6 I almost exclusively platoon with Steven. He and I are on the same page and we play well together. In that tank I have several hundred games and an 82 percent WR, but overall I am not an 82 percent WR player. Granted I also platoon with players whose WR's are lower than mine, but I still readily admit that ultimately platooning stat pads my WR. 

[Unicorn143]

jmstichler, on 05 February 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

 

Absolutely, but I'm not sure how long that would take. It's probable that no matter what number you use someone will be pissed off - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like thunder says, I am in no way criticizing the tremendous work you have done so far and I am in awe at the skills needed to put that together that fast. Just making constructive suggestions that should not in any way be taken offensively. 

 

Guys, only what we have to focus is making system fair. System that is twisted one way or another will gain no respect from players. It now seems to me that 0.3 penalty is too stiff. What about 0.15

 

	battles	wins	platoon wins	Platon wins adjustment	Platoon wins penalty	Adjusted wins	Win Rate	Adjusted win rate	Diff
jmstichler	13560	8502	2889	0.15	433	8069	62.7	59.51	3.19
Serapth	3384	1848	23	0.15	3	1845	54.61	54.52	0.09
fullestnuke	9402	7659	7362	0.15	1104	6555	81.46	69.72	11.74

Edited by face4stas, 05 February 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[thunderthies]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

 

Guys, only what we have to focus is making system fair. System that is twisted one way or another will gain no respect from players. It now seems to me that 0.3 penalty is too stiff. What about 0.15

 

	battles	wins	platoon wins	Platon wins adjustment	Platoon wins penalty	Adjusted wins	Win Rate	Adjusted win rate	Diff
jmstichler	13560	8502	2889	0.15	433	8069	62.7	59.51	3.19
Serapth	3384	1848	23	0.15	3	1845	54.61	54.52	0.09
fullestnuke	9402	7659	7362	0.15	1104	6555	81.46	69.72	11.74

 

This looks about right to me. 

[Serapth]

face4stas, on 05 February 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

 

Not possible. It is unknown. We do not know how many times player been in platoon playing this tank. We only know how many times he won playing in platoon.

 

hmmm that's too bad and a strange missing stat.

 

What about taking all the winrates of top near 0% platoon players, and the same from top near 100% platoon players.  The difference would be an accurate ratio.  You could do the same with bottom end for both ends as well.

[_law]

Im not sure if wr should be calculated at all. Dmg ratio IMO is the best way to judge another player. 

[dddqqq]

 

Instead of focusing on winrate you could make a system based off of contribution instead. Average damage, spots, k.d, damage ratio, etc.