392 replies to this topic

[PandaRole]

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

 

True. But this isn't WN8. It's also not WoT.

 

 

Not WoT? So you're telling me this isn't a World of Tanks Blitz forum?

[twosp2]

Platoons have a much bigger impact in this than wot because of team size 15 on wot vs 7 here also.

[thunderthies]

PandaRole, on 05 February 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

Not WoT? So you're telling me this isn't a World of Tanks Blitz forum?

 

WoT vs. WoTB. 

[OGFiery]

thunderthies, on 04 February 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

>>Why even have an adjusted WR?

 

Because platooning influences WR. 

 

>>I honestly don't care about WR as much as I care about damage caused to damage received. That is what matters.

 

Agreed.

 

>>WN8 doesn't judge a person by platooning and is considered an excellent system.

 

True. But this isn't WN8. It's also not WoT.

 

 

 

This is WoT. The system is extremely flawed if you don't go by each tank specifically. Otherwise, I can go in a Matilda and stat-pad for hundreds of battles.

 

I'm not going to use this system to judge a person at this rate. I'll continue to use the old way until Neverwish implements Blitz on WoTLabs. WN8 has 4 simple numbers that you go by: Overall WR, Overall WN8, Recent WR and Recent WN8, simple and effective.

[Nutellanism]

Serapth, on 04 February 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Platooning is going to affect so many tangibles beyond winrrate.  People that platoon are generally going to also have higher survival rates and more consistent damage, although they won't have as many outlier games.

 

Ideal would be to just discard all the platooned games completely but it doesn't sound like a possibility.

 

I personally find it more difficult to put out consistant damage while in a toon. Its like im competing with my own toon partner for the damage. When i do play solo, Its almost garenteed that its easier damage.

[DisordeR_]

originalmadkilla, on 05 February 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

 

I just want what's fair also, but do you believe that platooning has only added 3.19% to your normal win rate? Doesn't that seem a bit low?

 

I don't disagree with that at all. I did about 8.5k battles solo (before starting to toon) and was at about 58%, so for me it should probably be more like .16 or .17, but for great players it should probably be closer to .10. I just thought the second looked closer to me than the first option. 

[acrisis]

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

 

You're assuming he plays exclusively with players of equal or greater WR than his own. There has to be some leeway to account for players who platoon to help others. There's a handful who signed up for the Training Grounds thing. In those instances, it's ver plausible that platooning could actually hinder the chance to win.

 

That too. That's in part what I was trying to say when two inexperienced of average players platoon, it may not give much of a benefit at all, if any. I haven't platooned much. Gotten a few requests. Accepted them. While I could coordinate a couple of the young bloods a bit, I did not see a sudden rise in wins, or certainly not where both platoon members survive several times in a row, because some of them are just getting started and still a bit to enthusiastically green. Met two other players online that are similar in play, survival and wins to me, and while we do a bit better together,  you just can't communicate well enough with chat. Even if you had code language, you're driving and shooting ... and texting while doing both doesn't work. So, for me personally if there has been a net effect for the bit of platooning, it probably doesn't amount to much. Which brings me back to the benefit being bigger the more experience you have, the better you know your platoonmate etc.

Edited by acrisis, 05 February 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[thunderthies]

concep, on 05 February 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

 

This is WoT. The system is extremely flawed if you don't go by each tank specifically. Otherwise, I can go in a Matilda and stat-pad for hundreds of battles.

 

I'm not going to use this system to judge a person at this rate. I'll continue to use the old way until Neverwish implements Blitz on WoTLabs. WN8 has 4 simple numbers that you go by: Overall WR, Overall WN8, Recent WR and Recent WN8, simple and effective.

 

It's not WoT. It's WoTB. It's based on the former, but was built from the ground up, not ported. Not everything will translate perfectly and therefore some factors must be tweaked in order to more accurately measure true skill. 

[skittlestime]

Question, why not do both? Player ranked in platoon and solo. I am not sure you will ever make everyone happy with your factor. 

[Unicorn143]

Ok. I am going to begin working on rating. Perfect or not it will be something on top of the winrate that by many ageed is flawed. I am surprised that people did not complain about giving higher weight to the tanks played on the higher tiers as WIN8 is treating all tanks equally what I do not agree as playing tier X is a way harder than playing tier 1.

[DisordeR_]

I see the point though that the point of this game is to win and, therefore, nothing that helps you win should be penalized. Can't penalize gold spammers so why penalize those who platoon? I' m now out of suggestions.

[gl123]

you know what ... how about those whining platoon mates who cry for f. ever coz they got killed on the other side of the map and you did not save them!!!! F... man ... that should be rewarded with multiplier of "3" )

Seriously ... leave the rating as-is ... there is no perfect world ... so why try to make it ?

[Nutellanism]

gl123, on 04 February 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

you know what ... how about those whining platoon mates who cry for f. ever coz they got killed on the other side of the map and you did not save them!!!! F... man ... that should be rewarded with multiplier of "3" )

Seriously ... leave the rating as-is ... there is no perfect world ... so why try to make it ?

 

Because people are stat-aholics.

[naktl]

Perhaps you could take look at the actual differences.  You also have some people who only platoon or only solo.  I might look at the actual differences, but then platooning might be considered just another choice you make that effects your overall stat.  There is basically nothing that keeps a player from platooning.  Platooning might raise your WR like yoloing hey diddle diddle right down the middle every game might lower it.

 

Also, please don't feel you have to stop posting about the site.  This stuff is great and I am grateful you are doing it.

[mehliveat]

Regarding platoons.

 

Would you be able to plot WR vs Platoon %, then we can see what is the relationship between the two and how much advantage is in platoon  I am hoping that it will be a linear relationship (or at least can be approximated by one), then we can use the its coefficent (gradient) as the adjustment.

[_S3MPRIAN_]

So will platoon losses be factored in? I somehow ended up with a 13% platoon victory rate o.o. I guess my noob days still take their toll

[Serapth]

_S3MPRIAN_, on 05 February 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

So will platoon losses be factored in? I somehow ended up with a 13% platoon victory rate o.o. I guess my noob days still take their toll

 

don't worry, that's not what that stat means.  It's saying 13% of your victories came platooned.  Not that you are victorious 13% of the time.  It's just a rough estimate of how much you platoon vs solo

[johndd1_winner]

twosp2, on 05 February 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Platoons have a much bigger impact in this than wot because of team size 15 on wot vs 7 here also.

 

I'm not so sure. A 3-man toon on pc can be extremely impactful.

 

I don't want to get too caught up in this discussion. But I am interested to know why a player who platoons at a higher rate than the average player should get penalized. Or, better put, why should platoon WR factor into a rating scheme at all? Platooning is not an auto-win button that many seem to want to make it sound. The players must still go out and play the game.

 

Often I encounter a platoon of good/great players on the red team. In fact, I'd say I face more good platoons than I get on my team, frankly. Platooned or not, one must still win. Fundamentally, platoon or not platoon should have no more impact on a rating system than percentage of gold to standard rounds fired. The action is allowable within the games rules, and is therefore irrelevant to a players ratings.

 

Personally, I find platooning with another good player distracting from time to time. Jostling with each other for the same spot on the map, getting in each other's way because our strats/play styles are too similar. Feeling obligated to go somewhere on the map I know my tank will not perform simply because my platoon mate is going there.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is two good players in a platoon must still make that platoon work in order to secure the win. 

[thunderthies]

johndd1_winner, on 05 February 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

 

I'm not so sure. A 3-man toon on pc can be extremely impactful.

 

I don't want to get too caught up in this discussion. But I am interested to know why a player who platoons at a higher rate than the average player should get penalized. Or, better put, why should platoon WR factor into a rating scheme at all? Platooning is not an auto-win button that many seem to want to make it sound. The players must still go out and play the game.

 

Often I encounter a platoon of good/great players on the red team. In fact, I'd say I face more good platoons than I get on my team, frankly. Platooned or not, one must still win. Fundamentally, platoon or not platoon should have no more impact on a rating system than percentage of gold to standard rounds fired. The action is allowable within the games rules, and is therefore irrelevant to a players ratings.

 

Personally, I find platooning with another good player distracting from time to time. Jostling with each other for the same spot on the map, getting in each other's way because our strats/play styles are too similar. Feeling obligated to go somewhere on the map I know my tank will not perform simply because my platoon mate is going there.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is two good players in a platoon must still make that platoon work in order to secure the win. 

 

The more I think about this the more I am inclined to agree with you, concep and others who have pointed to not having a platoon adjustment. I think a valid argument can be made for both sides, but there are also just so many factors to platooning, as you mentioned, that nullify its effectiveness. 

 

In the end I'm not super concerned about it though. I'm just happy to have the ability to look up players' stats outside of the game. Beggars can't be choosers. 

[johndd1_winner]

thunderthies, on 05 February 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

 

The more I think about this the more I am inclined to agree with you, concep and others who have pointed to not having a platoon adjustment. I think a valid argument can be made for both sides, but there are also just so many factors to platooning, as you mentioned, that nullify its effectiveness. 

 

In the end I'm not super concerned about it though. I'm just happy to have the ability to look up players' stats outside of the game. Beggars can't be choosers. 

Yeah, again, I don't care enough either way to scream and stomp my feet about the issue. I do, on some levels, understand the other sides argument, as you also stated. But Overall I think platooning, while certainly effective, is not itself the easy win scenario.