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acrisis #61 Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:36 PM

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:angry:  I really don't know when to play any more ... and am starting to blame MM more than ever.

Jumped in to hit the 2x on a few tanks, school is still in session, and guess what?  Just went 6 losses : 1 win between three different tanks. 

Pretty much every time I take a tank out it is in a +2 match. Every time we lost red had at least on extra +2 tier vehicle, of which multiple considered best in tier vehicles, etc. IS6 IS3 T29 ... Red gets a platoon of VII IS >50% and we get a platoon of level V T-34 <50%, they got several KV fortresses and an OP one shotter ISU TD and/or an AT15A ... we got a T49 or Hellcat.   Yeah consider it a challenge to try once and lose, but not 3 4 5 6 times in a row, and not with the random influx of people playing this game.

The ONLY time green won out of the 7 battles was when we had a single mid range VI advantage  and WR of 5 greens > 50% vs 5 reds < 50%.  One loss I considered strategic error. Green spread thin. The mid tiers and one top tier were fighting the entire OP red army. 5 other losses, pretty much destined to fail due to MM. You look at the roster and go ... eheh. MM. Then after summary you look the players WR ... again eheh.  

 

... I don't know. Because the lopsidedness of this game and the ongoing steamrolling is just getting bloody ridiculous; and the frustration factor continues to be an inch away of stopping the love/hate madness. 


 

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thewontonsoup #62 Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:59 PM

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View PostENO75, on 15 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

I think we're all losing a bunch because we're playing the way we always did... We stubbornly hold onto our conventional tactics and expect the plethora of transients during their one month charge on the game to follow suit. 

 

Idiots with 400 battles calling games and other idiots following them with their 30% win rates... and what do we do? Naturally resist that urge since it's essentially subscribing to stupidity and head off to do the "right" thing instead of embracing the meat cushion that we could be using for our own protection. 

 

I can't speak for everyone- but I continue to find myself and my platoon mate making the same mistake. We're playing the game the way we learned to for 5000+ missions- some upwards of 12000... playing with people who have 1/10th that exposure to the game yet expecting too much from them. Playing with the wild cards has actually changed the repetitive nature of the game and while enormously frustrating has simultaneously rejuvenated that challenge.

 

  

 

Hell I started calling games after I hit 100 battles (atm little over 200) and my WR is 58% and climbing more and more each day. Why do I call? Because I am not new to WoT. Its just the people who call battles that have no understanding of the game etc that gets me upset. What really makes a nice loss is when your team has no situation awareness.....We got a default sixth sense and yet people are idiots and turn their [edited]towards people or don't even know people are there.

 



acrisis #63 Posted 18 March 2015 - 09:06 PM

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Good for you and you clearly benefit from your WOT experience that most of the blitz players do not have. Be warned. You can only carry solo so far. And, you can call as much as you want, tried it several times this afternoon, to get negative, whatever, we just want to hear the booms,  ... etc.
 

Teams are at their worst ever. After losing a bunch with a couple avg mediums, I figured I'd take my IS out as I can dish out some damage at least. Another three losses in a row in my IS. 

3 W : 12 L this afternoon 

Last battle.  Asked for help with the bridge at falls creek.  Me (IS) + Tiger + Centurion. Rest wanders off.  I've got my favorite rock spot, face a T32 diagonally across the bridge ... I cannot see any part single of him, he's completely concealed by the bridge, yet mysteriously enough he can hit my turret for 1/5 of my HP?! Anyhow. Doesn't matter. I can't shoot him because no part of him sticks out.  Figure the Tiger and Centurion can handle him. Other reds get spotted. Some shots ring. I inch FWD, get a shot in on a VIII, bounced, meh. Now suddenly three VIII reds charge across the bridge. I get one shot in and during my reload, while I try to back up and get blasted away.  Here's the summary of steamroll number x of today, by OP tank & WR red teams: 


As you can see, I got one shot in, the other two (-.-) did ZERO.  I think the Tiger II and AT25 were at cap, where they did a bit of damage. 

You just hit rock walls head on in this game, and it just makes you want to break your iPad and / or uninstall the game. Throw all your effort and some money away.   I don't have the benefit of WOT experience, and played a fair bit for fun, before getting a bit more serious, wotbstars puts me at about 70% of the playing populous overall, after tugging my stats up in the past month and half. So, I'm not exactly playing noob level ... but it is just nucking futz when your "random" team loses 3/4 of the battles due to tier imbalances and team imbalances. 
 


 

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patman_ct #64 Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:02 PM

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So, I'm grinding the Russian light/medium line. I've had 24 battles in the A-20 over 3 days and generated a 29% win ratio despite trying a bunch of different playing styles in an attempt to do better (for those compelled to comment on my skills, please keep reading first). Nothing worked so I punted and used a portion of my free experience balance to get the T-34. I'm 8 battles in and have a 100% win ratio. Whereas I hope it continues for selfish reasons, the win streak is just as wrong as the losing streak. Something in MM is not correct.

 



patman_ct #65 Posted 18 March 2015 - 11:09 PM

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View Postacrisis, on 18 March 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Good for you and you clearly benefit from your WOT experience that most of the blitz players do not have. Be warned. You can only carry solo so far. And, you can call as much as you want, tried it several times this afternoon, to get negative, whatever, we just want to hear the booms,  ... etc.
 

Teams are at their worst ever. After losing a bunch with a couple avg mediums, I figured I'd take my IS out as I can dish out some damage at least. Another three losses in a row in my IS. 

3 W : 12 L this afternoon 

Last battle.  Asked for help with the bridge at falls creek.  Me (IS) + Tiger + Centurion. Rest wanders off.  I've got my favorite rock spot, face a T32 diagonally across the bridge ... I cannot see any part single of him, he's completely concealed by the bridge, yet mysteriously enough he can hit my turret for 1/5 of my HP?! Anyhow. Doesn't matter. I can't shoot him because no part of him sticks out.  Figure the Tiger and Centurion can handle him. Other reds get spotted. Some shots ring. I inch FWD, get a shot in on a VIII, bounced, meh. Now suddenly three VIII reds charge across the bridge. I get one shot in and during my reload, while I try to back up and get blasted away.  Here's the summary of steamroll number x of today, by OP tank & WR red teams: 


As you can see, I got one shot in, the other two (-.-) did ZERO.  I think the Tiger II and AT25 were at cap, where they did a bit of damage. 

You just hit rock walls head on in this game, and it just makes you want to break your iPad and / or uninstall the game. Throw all your effort and some money away.   I don't have the benefit of WOT experience, and played a fair bit for fun, before getting a bit more serious, wotbstars puts me at about 70% of the playing populous overall, after tugging my stats up in the past month and half. So, I'm not exactly playing noob level ... but it is just nucking futz when your "random" team loses 3/4 of the battles due to tier imbalances and team imbalances. 
 

 

Amen!

mooneyman2 #66 Posted 19 March 2015 - 01:06 AM

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View Postpatman_ct, on 17 March 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

 

If I have achieved a 53.5% win ratio over the course of say 9700ish battles over 8 months, having started in the low 40's, how is it possible to drop to 53.16 in 100ish battles (that's roughly less than 1% of my total battle count) over 4 days?  And, at least 75% of those losses I was highest or second highest score on the team? 

 

Because you didn't have the good sense to put it down and kept plowing through it, chasing the losses.  The best way to defend your WR is to stop playing when you start losing.  If that means you only play 4-5 games, oh well.  



dorian666gray #67 Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:21 AM

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I read that a lot here on the forum - when losing put the device down and stop playing. I'm not picking on anyone in particular but frankly that doesn't make any sense. The game's totally random. There are literally thousands of people queued up to play 24/7. You're equally as likely to go on a 12 game winstreak as you are a 12 game losing streak. Now, if you all are saying put it down for *psychological* reasons, then I get it. Makes sense.

dorian666gray #68 Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:32 AM

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I thought what ENO said earlier was insightful. It's an accurate assessment of what I've been doing. I use the same old tactics and assume Im playing with seasoned drivers. For example, I'll drive on out thinking the Jagdtiger or whatever behind me has got my back. Cut to one minute later, everyone on the team is dead including me. I wonder what happened to my support and look back and hey there's Jagdtiger still sitting in the corner spinning around and shooting the dirt.

dorian666gray #69 Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:38 AM

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I do agree though that also something is just plain wrong with the game. Is it MM? Gotta be. I've never been in so many lopsided steamroll games. Even when I'm on the winning side (rarely, so it seems lol) I recognize the ridiculousness of a 7-0 pounding. I don't want to play steamrolls. I want brawls that go down to 1 v 1.

NwOnt211 #70 Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:12 PM

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CptCheez #71 Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:26 PM

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View Postdorian666gray, on 18 March 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

I do agree though that also something is just plain wrong with the game. Is it MM? Gotta be. I've never been in so many lopsided steamroll games. Even when I'm on the winning side (rarely, so it seems lol) I recognize the ridiculousness of a 7-0 pounding. I don't want to play steamrolls. I want brawls that go down to 1 v 1.

Unfortunately, that's rarely the result of a truly random matchmaker.  Truly random matches, which these are, are much more likely to result in a vast mismatch in skill between teams than they are to result in evenly matched teams.

 

Let's say any 1 person's skill in the game is represented by a value from 1-10.  Now roll 7 * 10-sided dice.  That's the "skill level" for that team.  Roll them again, and that's the "skill level" for the other team.  You're going to see many more rolls with a very wide variance than you will rolls that are close in value.  Here's some results from a random dice rolling app:

 

7d10 → [8,10,8,9,5,2,10] = (52)
7d10 → [4,3,10,5,8,1,1] = (32)

 

7d10 → [3,1,10,1,3,5,4] = (27)
7d10 → [1,4,8,2,9,8,10] = (42)

 

7d10 → [9,10,2,1,6,6,10] = (44)
7d10 → [10,4,4,6,3,8,10] = (45)

 

7d10 → [3,10,10,5,10,2,8] = (48)
7d10 → [6,4,3,5,7,7,7] = (39)

 

7d10 → [3,8,7,10,10,10,1] = (49)
7d10 → [1,6,5,5,1,6,10] = (34)

 

7d10 → [1,4,6,2,5,4,7] = (29)
7d10 → [7,10,1,9,7,5,2] = (41)

 

7d10 → [6,7,6,5,3,1,5] = (33)
7d10 → [2,10,4,9,6,3,3] = (37)

 

7d10 → [1,4,5,7,2,9,10] = (38)
7d10 → [5,6,3,2,9,10,6] = (41)

 

7d10 → [10,4,1,1,2,9,4] = (31)
7d10 → [8,8,8,4,9,1,9] = (47)

 

7d10 → [2,8,6,3,8,7,4] = (38)
7d10 → [7,4,2,4,5,3,4] = (29)

 

Assuming that a "close game" would only be the result of the team values being within, say, 5 of each other, then only 3 of the above 10 examples would be a close game.  The other 7 would be steamrolls one way or the other.


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RedBarchetta3 #72 Posted 19 March 2015 - 07:47 PM

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View PostCptCheez, on 19 March 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Unfortunately, that's rarely the result of a truly random matchmaker.  Truly random matches, which these are, are much more likely to result in a vast mismatch in skill between teams than they are to result in evenly matched teams.

 

Let's say any 1 person's skill in the game is represented by a value from 1-10.  Now roll 7 * 10-sided dice.  That's the "skill level" for that team.  Roll them again, and that's the "skill level" for the other team.  You're going to see many more rolls with a very wide variance than you will rolls that are close in value.  Here's some results from a random dice rolling app:

 

7d10 → [8,10,8,9,5,2,10] = (52)
7d10 → [4,3,10,5,8,1,1] = (32)

 

7d10 → [3,1,10,1,3,5,4] = (27)
7d10 → [1,4,8,2,9,8,10] = (42)

 

7d10 → [9,10,2,1,6,6,10] = (44)
7d10 → [10,4,4,6,3,8,10] = (45)

 

7d10 → [3,10,10,5,10,2,8] = (48)
7d10 → [6,4,3,5,7,7,7] = (39)

 

7d10 → [3,8,7,10,10,10,1] = (49)
7d10 → [1,6,5,5,1,6,10] = (34)

 

7d10 → [1,4,6,2,5,4,7] = (29)
7d10 → [7,10,1,9,7,5,2] = (41)

 

7d10 → [6,7,6,5,3,1,5] = (33)
7d10 → [2,10,4,9,6,3,3] = (37)

 

7d10 → [1,4,5,7,2,9,10] = (38)
7d10 → [5,6,3,2,9,10,6] = (41)

 

7d10 → [10,4,1,1,2,9,4] = (31)
7d10 → [8,8,8,4,9,1,9] = (47)

 

7d10 → [2,8,6,3,8,7,4] = (38)
7d10 → [7,4,2,4,5,3,4] = (29)

 

Assuming that a "close game" would only be the result of the team values being within, say, 5 of each other, then only 3 of the above 10 examples would be a close game.  The other 7 would be steamrolls one way or the other.

 

Wouldn't using seven 3-sided dice be more applicable? Assuming no fail-platoons, the potential spread will only be 3 values. Never mind, misunderstood what you were doing. 

Edited by RedBarchetta3, 19 March 2015 - 08:35 PM.

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acrisis #73 Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:32 PM

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Good point with regards to wide variance in a random roll. 

But besides the set of 7 dice with 7 or more values representing the WR values for the tank drivers 35 40 45 50 55 60 65

there should also be a set of 7 dice with 9 values 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 for the tanks across the three tiers, representing some weighting along the lines of stock, avg, edited, heavily armored, heavily gunned, ... 

 

Many times you're that above average or highest WR driver in the team in low tier tank, unable to do much damage with the limited gun and armor he can use. 


So it is more than just WR imbalance ( which I know I like to harp on)
 


 

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CptCheez #74 Posted 19 March 2015 - 09:01 PM

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View Postacrisis, on 19 March 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Good point with regards to wide variance in a random roll. 

But besides the set of 7 dice with 7 or more values representing the WR values for the tank drivers 35 40 45 50 55 60 65

there should also be a set of 7 dice with 9 values 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 for the tanks across the three tiers, representing some weighting along the lines of stock, avg, edited, heavily armored, heavily gunned, ... 

 

Many times you're that above average or highest WR driver in the team in low tier tank, unable to do much damage with the limited gun and armor he can use. 


So it is more than just WR imbalance ( which I know I like to harp on)
 

 

Oh I agree, there's more than player skill that comes into play.  WG even stated that in an earlier version of the PC matchmaker, they tried adding in a bit that tried to take into account the tank's mounted equipment (gun, etc.), and it went horribly wrong.

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dorian666gray #75 Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:08 AM

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Good post, Cheez. I didn't say anything about WR though, just MM. I don't think MM takes into account WR. I think WR is an overall poor metric of a player's performance. My point - if I even had one - was that MM is pitting superior tanks against inferior ones. I've seen games recently where red had three T-54s and my green team had like a Panther II or some crap as a match. It's weird matchmaker stuff that I've never seen up until recently. I've been playing this since the week the app dropped.

herbie424 #76 Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:39 AM

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View Postchristian1470, on 15 March 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

I am doing the seal clubbing thing less. My T18 stays parked, and I barely take out my T2Light. Why? I'm starting to feel bad for the seals. I'd hate to be steamrolled by a couple pros, or even one, while trying to learn how to play the damn game. I've moved on. Now, seal clubbing for me is the T1Heavy, or something similar. Chance I'll see tier 7, and not much worry against tiers 5&6.

And yes, one can successfully club seals in a T2Light.   :)

 

Those of us who are and should be playing III-V tiers are really unhappy with this situation.  

 

 

 

 

 


cl1nt_B3astWood #77 Posted 20 March 2015 - 12:42 AM

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Steps to happiness.

 

1. Take a break from the game for awhile or.....

 

2. Do what I do and seal club some tier 4 noobs with a Hetzer.

 

 

 

 


Say what again! I dare you, I double dare you, say what again!

dorian666gray #78 Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:35 AM

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Going down to lower tiers where the players generally have much less experience and ruining their games has got to be one the most childish things I've ever heard of.

bigpoppadaddy #79 Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:49 AM

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This is a long thread, pretty popular one I might add. Over the weekend besides the mismatches, AFK tanks, Noobians and other crazy stuff that happened I agree it blew hard.  I get the Mismatches sometimes but I thought to computer was supposed to be angle t determine users skill rate??  10 matches on Saturday I played n Tier 8 thru 10 matches with the avg players experience was about 500 games and in total minus my stats a Win rate of 43.7%.  But, my opponents had over 5,000 matches played and a win rate of 53.1%. Sunday was almost identical in the lack of experience and childish behavior on my teams.

 

I just posted about selling my Caernarvon. This weekend took me from a 70% win rate down to 51% in it before I sold it today. I thought about taking a break from the game but I love it to much.  I'm just going to alter my play style to become more selfish. I feel like I give, support tanks an try to keep my team alive and it just goes to waste or unnoticed.  I do agree with the user who said we've played so long that we don't change. Well I'm changing!!!:harp:

 


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cl1nt_B3astWood #80 Posted 20 March 2015 - 02:52 AM

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View Postdorian666gray, on 19 March 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Going down to lower tiers where the players generally have much less experience and ruining their games has got to be one the most childish things I've ever heard of.

 

not all of them are noobs, a lot are people working their way up a new tank line. Granted, some of them are noobs, but not completely.
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