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LarsGarvey #341 Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:12 PM

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Oh, I think Siouxinpa just answered my "nasty spots" question. Thank you!

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putnamJavi #342 Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:15 PM

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Great help Sioux!  Thanx

siouxinpa #343 Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

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View Postnaktl, on 30 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

 

Here is another link for armor and targeting:

http://www.worldoftanksguide.com/cgi-bin/tank_analyzer.cgi

 

 

View PostputnamJavi, on 12 August 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Great help Sioux!  Thanx

 

Credit where credit is due. I learned about the site on this thread from Naktl.


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naktl #344 Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:14 PM

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The following is all basic stuff as I am trying to figure out the game.

 

For "end game" purposes there are 27 tanks to memorize at present, T8-10.

 

In addition to lower front glacis-

 

The area around the front and back wheel will often track as well as do damage.  This particularly true on the Pershing for instance.  This area can also get to the engine on many tanks it seems.

 

Many tanks have ammo in the turret, often in the non-reinforced parts, which you can usually see.  The sides of turrets are becoming one of my favorite target areas.

 

Of course the cupola on almost all turrets.  This is particularly important to learn how to target on US tanks.  You have to understand something about the trajectory of your gun.

 

German Med/Heavy have a front mounted engine.

 

All the IS tanks have fuel and engine upper rear hull.  You can see and target the fuel tanks.

 

The non-machine gun port on most tanks is slightly vulnerable and is often the driver.

 

There is often a small area around the gun mantlet that is vulnerable, but hard to target unless you have a very accurate gun.

 

The turret crease can be vulnerable.

 

If you have time on an opponent try targeting different areas and note the damage and effect.

 

If I am struggling with a tank I go look it up.  I also revisit the tank I am driving to understand its soft spots and the best chance of getting bounces.

 

"Wiggling" the hull works amazingly well in some cases, particularly with TDs.  Turret wiggling on hull down tanks makes a big difference since it makes the cupola very hard to target.  

 

On some of the sloped armor tanks you can use a rise to protect your lower glacis while exposing a better hull angle.  I do this to try and get a bounce so I can roll the rise and take a shot while they are reloading.

 

I am still figuring out gun depression.  Germans typically have lousy depression.  These means a bunch of things, but one thing it means is that situationally you can effectively "hug" them.  I often get this wrong though for some reason.

 

If you haven't learned to sidescrape go look at some videos.  It's situational, but if you can get it set up it can allow you to fight multiple tanks at a choke point.  I still often get it wrong.  It can also be a little nerve wracking since you will be getting hit a lot and some no damage shots will not register as bounces.  Watch to see if there are any derp guns since they can make it go horribly wrong.

 

Recently I have been trying to learn to drive.  I still drive as if drunk most of the time so I am having marshmallow roasts on the carcass of my tank even more than usual (which is saying a lot). Learning to drive backwards without reversing your turret and understanding the turn radius and effects of turning on speed and accuracy seem a big deal.

 

Previously I relied a lot on position and would often have several spots per map that I use as the battle develops.  I think most people have some version of that.  The thing is of course that the spot is only as good as the developing flow of the battle.  Many times I see people get wedded to a spot.  After T8 the US and German TDs are not as useful as snipers, in great part because of mobility.  I like to snipe with Mediums, but since there is often no one effectively scouting or flanking I end up doing ( or trying at least) more of that in my Mediums at present.

 

I know this is all basic stuff and not 100%, but it is a lot to learn really.   Part of the appeal of the game for me.

 

I will add a post with some map routes I don't see others using much.

 

 

 

 

 


 


naktl #345 Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:49 PM

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Map routes to try for optimizing the flames and heat output of your tank.  I can never remember the names of the maps.

 

Desert town.

Medium route:

Try abandoning the desert fight altogether.  Cut diagonally from spawn through the center railway bridge and pull up parallel to the opposing flat wall.  The enemies heavies should be just behind that wall.  The base on the other side of you.  If your heavies are doing their job the enemy will know you are there, but not be able to get at you without exposing themselves to focused fire from your heavies.  Usually they will have much more attention on that. You will be able to see their orientation and when they fire.  Start playing peek-a-boom.  You will almost always have free side shots with no return fire.  It works better on the side of the map where the rail extends all the way to the edge, but can work on both.  If done well it can also let your heavies push, exposes snipers, etc.

 

I have some okay routes on Mines, the one where half the map is a hill and the other half a town and the copper mine, but I often struggle with the map that has the bunkers up top and the town in the snow.  I know what "normal" routes and choke points might develop, but I have been looking for counterintuitive yet effective routes on maps.  These are often high risk, but can also really pay off.  Any examples on those maps?

 

Playing the far shed from your spawn in a Medium on the Copper map is an example.  Using the Church as a staging area without triggering the base in the hill/town map is another.

 

I have also been trying to develop scouting routes on mediums.  These should reveal targets for snipers, show your team the general movement of the enemy, not get you killed and optimally bait the enemy into your main force.  People are so obsessed with kills that if you flash a medium the entire opposing force will often chase it.  This means that the first part of your map may involve running away effectively after having been seen (or encountering the enemy van without an out and sploding).  Many of my routes are still getting me killed (drunk driving), but some are getting better.  You don't necessarily do a lot of damage or get kills in the first parts of the battle, but can end up in good position.  You will also sometimes find a stranded TD or Heavy and can ride the painted pony until their friends show up.  Doing this I often end up taking one or two shots at one end of the map and then completely relocating to the other side of the map and taking one or two more shots, etc.

 

This is mostly medium stuff.  Heavies and TDs are really different of course.  It is mostly also for if you aren't platooned I think.  I am still figuring out how to integrate my developing play style into platoons.

 


 


siouxinpa #346 Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:06 PM

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One thing that I see often is players wanting to completely obliterate a blocking force before advancing.  Sometimes they even withdraw from a numerical advantage situation to respond to an S.O.S.

 

This happens most obviously near choke points, at the bunkers on Rockfield or the bridge on Falls Creek. After the battle progress for 2 minutes or so, one side will acquire either a vehicle advantage or a combined hp pool advantage. This is the decisive moment, the entire match depends on what happens next.

 

If a team decides to completely attrit the enemy from previous positions, trading shots trench warfare style, they will weaken their flanks possibly leading to defeat. This leaves the battle in someone elses hands. Either your flank or your enemies will be rolled up, there is no middle ground. The side that loses the flank usually will lose.

 

If the force decides to attack the weakened enemy, they will almost always be dealt with quickly and severely. This changes your role from the blocking force to the flanking force allowing you to roll down on the remaining enemies flank. Again, almost always leading to victory.

 

The choice is yours....and of course your teammates.


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siouxinpa #347 Posted 12 August 2014 - 09:25 PM

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Finally got my baby!!!

 

 

Not bad for my first battle.


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twosp2 #348 Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:16 PM

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Congrats Sioux!

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microcarnage #349 Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:30 AM

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View Postnaktl, on 12 August 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

I have also been trying to develop scouting routes on mediums.  These should reveal targets for snipers, show your team the general movement of the enemy, not get you killed and optimally bait the enemy into your main force.  People are so obsessed with kills that if you flash a medium the entire opposing force will often chase it.  This means that the first part of your map may involve running away effectively after having been seen (or encountering the enemy van without an out and sploding).  Many of my routes are still getting me killed (drunk driving), but some are getting better.  You don't necessarily do a lot of damage or get kills in the first parts of the battle, but can end up in good position.  You will also sometimes find a stranded TD or Heavy and can ride the painted pony until their friends show up.  Doing this I often end up taking one or two shots at one end of the map and then completely relocating to the other side of the map and taking one or two more shots, etc.

 

 


Ran into you last night on the map with bunkers. You circled the middle bunker quickly exposing my team coming up the hill, I was hidden in a bush but I tried to take advantage of this by firing a shot at your backend at the end of your circle.  Due to exposing myself with the shot to you, I get nailed by four of your teammates that were following you that hadn't been seen yet.  My team was a bit slow behind me and I took most of the damage from that battle.  It didn't end well for my end.


Edited by microcarnage, 13 August 2014 - 01:31 AM.


_ENO_ #350 Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:49 AM

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View Postsiouxinpa, on 12 August 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Eno -- The modelling site is great info.  I've found worldoftanksguideto help a lot too.

 

Another good place I've searched for information on a variety of tanks: 

 

http://wotguru.com/w...ot-guide-e-100/

 

 

 

Specific to the E-100 again and not really a formal deployment of information as much as identifying resources overall.

 

I just got back up to work now so being on night shift does afford me a bit of time to work on this kind of stuff. 

 

What I would like to be able to do is accumulate all that information on one post... then I can "multi quote" and add feedback from others during the discussions specific to that platform. Might even be able to make a "directory" on the first page that shows what post number each vehicle is profiled. 

 

Naktl- I didn't get a chance to say anything earlier and I don't like to type on my ipad- but that was pretty awesome elaboration. Thank you! 



naktl #351 Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:12 AM

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View Postsiouxinpa, on 12 August 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

One thing that I see often is players wanting to completely obliterate a blocking force before advancing.  Sometimes they even withdraw from a numerical advantage situation to respond to an S.O.S.

 

This happens most obviously near choke points, at the bunkers on Rockfield or the bridge on Falls Creek. After the battle progress for 2 minutes or so, one side will acquire either a vehicle advantage or a combined hp pool advantage. This is the decisive moment, the entire match depends on what happens next.

 

If a team decides to completely attrit the enemy from previous positions, trading shots trench warfare style, they will weaken their flanks possibly leading to defeat. This leaves the battle in someone elses hands. Either your flank or your enemies will be rolled up, there is no middle ground. The side that loses the flank usually will lose.

 

If the force decides to attack the weakened enemy, they will almost always be dealt with quickly and severely. This changes your role from the blocking force to the flanking force allowing you to roll down on the remaining enemies flank. Again, almost always leading to victory.

 

The choice is yours....and of course your teammates.

Yeh, when I am in a heavy or sometimes in one of the T8 TDs I will watch for this moment and push.  Sadly what often happens is that the rest of my team just watches this.  Same thing often happens if I have gotten an enemy turned around away from a a choke point.  Perfect time to push, but they just often watch me explode.  I have started using the Attack! button a bit and it sometimes works.  It's a roll of the dice though.


 


_ENO_ #352 Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:19 AM

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This is where I've found TS3 works- since it's easier to get the larger group to climb on when two tanks initiate a charge instead of one. Wish we could reliably get 3-4 people together in the same match (on the same team!)

 

(test)

 

 



siouxinpa #353 Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:24 PM

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Since the battle at that point is fairly static, I take the time to tell them what I'm going to do and I want them to follow me between shots. It happens so often I have it shortcutted on the keyboard, then I'll wait for one affirmative before heading out.

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Lephturn #354 Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

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Well thanks everyone who accepted - I sent all the invites last night.

 

Next step - TS3. I can't use it all the time, but I can see it will be helpful to set up a platoon and communicate in game.


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N2rock #355 Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

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Look forward to teaming up with you Lephturn

 

So guys- I have a serious hatred of Fort Despair- and it seems to come up more frequently for me than any other map. That map just seems to have no "flow" to it. Even worse for me as a TD since there's no really good long sight lines. I usually try to back up the biggest heavy on my team, which usually results in an enemy medium flanking us and taking me out. I just can't get a handle on a TD strategy for this map. Any advice?



Lephturn #356 Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:19 PM

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Agreed with Fort Despair - it is well named for me.

 

The only time I seem to win is on higher tier games if I attach myself to a couple of heavies and we stick together.

 

It is a very tough map for a TD. I have an SU-100Y that I do really well with on maps like Copperfield but it's more of a brawler heaven on that map. It is very easy to be flanked without the enemy being spotted. On the outside edge where it's more open there isn't a lot of cover, so playing peek-a-boom with a TD is difficult. Maybe I just need to learn the map better, but I seem to be most successful there with a light or medium.

 

Bear in mind I'm a n00b and I'm only Tier 4 mostly grinding a few lines (started down German to the DW2 then switched to American for a while and now working on Russian) so my Tier V and Tier VI games I run in premiums. I'm slowly learning the maps better, but I find Fort Despair a tough one.


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putnamJavi #357 Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:15 PM

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Fort Despair is tough to play as a sniper b/c you have to rely on your scouts to identify the enemy.  You've got to maximize your TD's strengths.  What I do on my SU-100Y is have both binos equipped for the greater sight line.  The TD's speed allows me to make a mad dash to the closest ledge overlooking the middle of the map.  This helps me & my team identify the enemy blips on the map first and directs my next move.  There are 3 main avenues of approach in this map.  The two flanking routes along the outside of the Fort and the inside plus the middle dash to the base capture.  By identifying the enemy movements first, you learn where the main thrust is.  From there, I either reinforce the closest players or I'll move to a flanking position to hit them where least expected.  As we know, unless you're platooned it's close to impossible to coordinate how your team will play and respond.  Most players will either make a mad dash to an objective or will mill around identifying the strongest tank (or most HP if evenly matched) before following that into battle.  Same holds true for the enemy.  Just remember the TD rules of play:  If unable to snipe, roll heavy and deep. 



siouxinpa #358 Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:23 PM

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Fort Despair has two main engagement zones.

 

The majority of the time engagements in higher tiers happen in white zone.  The mounds form a choke point, funnelling fire down one main channel, between the mounds and the wall, and one secondary channel, the other side of the mounds. Who ever wins this fight will win the battle.

 

The blue zone fight is usually between the mediums and other flankers.  Occasionally a lemming train forms on one or both sides that follows the mediums toward the blue zone, making it the primary engagement zone. If both teams meet head on there, winner of the fight wins the battle.  If only one side has superiority in the area, if the smaller force can block the enemy and if their main body recognizes what has happened and reacts, the smaller force will lose the fight but win the battle. Otherwise the larger force will overwhelm the smaller force and then do the same to now numerically inferior enemy on the other side of the map.

 

IMO, heavies should lead the fight in the white zone. Mediums should lead the fight in the blue zone. TDs if they are slow should support the white zone, if they have reasonable speed could support either.

 

Never go into the ruins in the initial movement to contact. There are too many "fatal funnels" to be aware of. This map has really juicy looking tank pads, don't be fooled if you go up on to one the countdown timer to your destruction has begun.

 

All of this being said, battle movement is fluid and at any point in the battle all of these suggestions could go out the window.

 

 


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Lephturn #359 Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:16 PM

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Excellent breakdown - thank you!

 

If I am in a medium or a light (being a lower tiered n00b) I will sometimes run up on to one of the shooting platforms to try and spot the enemy - I don't try to do it to fight from. The moment I spot a couple of enemies I back down and relocate. Maybe I should rethink that.

 

In a TD I usually go to an area where I can fire into the blue zone - but I suppose I should simply be setting up to provide fire support for the meds or heavies on my team instead.

 

When i am driving a medium I have had good luck with some of the great cover in the flag area and using that to nail those heading into the blue zone. I usually survive the fight better using the cover near the flag than out in the blue area where I seem to get picked off by TDs.


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DrWylde #360 Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:28 PM

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Great conversation and information - thanks to all.   I'll be showing in TS today or tomorrow - headgear works very effectively.

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