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What's up with that module target skin mod?

Mods hack cheating

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ahredstealth #21 Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:31 PM

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View PostWriterDude, on 04 September 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

 The key would be discovering how widespread this is. Anecdotally, I have noticed an increasing number of damaged modules, although that's not the same thing as evidence of an issue.

 

Simmer down, Church Lady.  (Ha ha ha.  Couldn't resist.)

 

I agree with the first part of this statement.  It would be nice to know how many people are running the Mod.  I would bet the percentage is fairly small for two reasons.  1) The population of this game that care about it enough to load mods are probably also on the forum, and we're the minority... so you're probably talking about a minority of a minority.  2)  A lot of people aren't running jail broken devices, and/or just don't know how to work Mods.  (I fall squarely into category 2 because I'm old enough now where my VCR blinks 12:00)

 

The second part...  eh... not so sure.  Now we are getting into tinfoil hat territory.  "I just know I'm getting more module damage" is a statement that screams to me that it's in your head.  I haven't noticed a big change.  I've been ammo racked less in the past 100 games.  Perhaps the hit skin Mod is making them shoot for my driver instead of my ammo rack?

 

I'm just not ready to jump on the "everyone is using it" bandwagon.

 

It would be nice for Wargaming to say something official on the matter though, and if they can tell some how who is using hit skins.  Just saying something to that second part would probably deter some people from using them.


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1carburo #22 Posted 04 September 2015 - 09:07 PM

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View Postahredstealth, on 04 September 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

While I agree that it seems less then on the up and up, I'm not certain if this is being utilized by a large enough player base to effect me that greatly.  I also hope WG'ing will do something, but I'm not going to worry about it in the meantime until I start seeing it become more widespread.

 

I think it's starting to be noticeable, and it will only get worse. I don't remember having many games where my driver/loader was killed again and again until very recently. Those games are relatively frequent now. Either players have become much better -a short solo run at tier X will fast disabuse anyone of this notion, or more and more are using mods to target modules/crew.



WriterDude #23 Posted 04 September 2015 - 09:16 PM

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View Postahredstealth, on 04 September 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Simmer down, Church Lady.  (Ha ha ha.  Couldn't resist.)

 

The second part...  eh... not so sure.  Now we are getting into tinfoil hat territory.  "I just know I'm getting more module damage" is a statement that screams to me that it's in your head.  I haven't noticed a big change.  I've been ammo racked less in the past 100 games.  Perhaps the hit skin Mod is making them shoot for my driver instead of my ammo rack?

 

LOL...

 

 

True, it's totally tinfoil. Not only that, it's BAD tinfoil - subjective experience is always < objective facts. It's funny - I'm with you that I've been ammoracked less in the past month than ever. 

 

That's the weird thing. It seems that snap shots from mediums do module damage all the time now. It's completely loopy to use that as some kind of evidence, but at the same time... well, let's leave it up to WG to fix the skin thing. One thing we could do is watch after the 2.1 update and see how long it takes for the module damage to escalate again? 


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_bel #24 Posted 04 September 2015 - 10:51 PM

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Couldn't agree more, Im glad someone finally said something. It's totally cheap. The only people saying otherwise are the people who use them. They know it gives them an advantage or else they obviously wouldnt be using the mod. Sooner or later WG will put their foot down on this


Edited by _bel, 04 September 2015 - 10:51 PM.

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SonnetVolta #25 Posted 05 September 2015 - 01:13 AM

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Spend one game in a Caernarvon and you will get VERY paranoid: did I get ammo racked because the red tank got lucky, because he has curated encyclopaedic knowledge of tanks, or because he downloaded a hack patch?

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WGPorscheSpyder #26 Posted 05 September 2015 - 10:01 PM

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I have noticed that lately my KV-4 has been set on fire a lot, so much so that I've started carrying an auto extinguisher. But, I can't say I've noticed much difference in other tanks. I'm not trying to say that there isn't a problem, because I do believe it is. The way I see it, it hasn't spread thick yet, so some see it, others don't. IMO, it would be best for WG to address this issue before it gets really out of hand. It certainly gives an unfair advantage. Us veteran players can kind of "grimace-and-bear-it," but it may turn off a lot of new players, which are kinda WG's bread-n'-butter when it comes to spending sprees. 

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BootlegTampico #27 Posted 05 September 2015 - 10:09 PM

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View PostSonnetVolta, on 04 September 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Spend one game in a Caernarvon and you will get VERY paranoid: did I get ammo racked because the red tank got lucky, because he has curated encyclopaedic knowledge of tanks, or because he downloaded a hack patch?

 

lol, Caern is easy to rack.

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Str8UpJack #28 Posted 06 September 2015 - 02:01 PM

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Problem is you just don't know who is using it.  I doubt WG can know either.  


It sucks that these types of mods are created because now it will lead to a new wave of hackusations every time someone gets ammo racked or set on fire.  Mods like this are a poison that do nothing good for the community.  


I guess the answer is WG devs insert some code into the game that prevents the game from loading on a device that is Rooted or Jailbroken..( is that even possible ? )

 

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BR1XT0N #29 Posted 06 September 2015 - 04:53 PM

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I just don't see this being worth getting upset about. Everyone knows where these modules are

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PRIMO412 #30 Posted 06 September 2015 - 04:56 PM

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Knowing where they are on any tank above teir 5 and being able to hit dead center within milliseconds? One takes a bit of brain processing power compared to the other.

 


Edited by DeadNinjaStorage, 06 September 2015 - 05:00 PM.


BR1XT0N #31 Posted 06 September 2015 - 05:09 PM

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All front engine tank modules that you'd care about hitting are in roughly the same spot; all rear engine tank modules you'd care about hitting are in roughly the same spot. With that said, absolutely do not believe that it makes the difference between a good player and a bad one. Or even a good player and a better one.

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PRIMO412 #32 Posted 06 September 2015 - 05:37 PM

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Yes engines are a little easier to remember and don't require a dead center to set a blaze.  The crew members and ammo racks do require dead center hit to kill/destroy and can cause much more of a problem. bushka stopped using is because he felt it was dirty pool. Might have to test it , for educational purposes only of course. 

 



WriterDude #33 Posted 06 September 2015 - 05:45 PM

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View PostBR1XT0N, on 06 September 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

All front engine tank modules that you'd care about hitting are in roughly the same spot; all rear engine tank modules you'd care about hitting are in roughly the same spot. With that said, absolutely do not believe that it makes the difference between a good player and a bad one. Or even a good player and a better one.

 

I'm not claiming this is making unicorns. At most, I'd claim it makes weak players into vaguely more competent players. The skins mod isn't going to move them into position to take those shots, for example.

 

I worry about three things in the game context. First, it gives the impression that there isn't a level playing field. That means second, regardless of actual utility, it means that some people will use mods in the expectation that they give an advantage. Third, if mod developers get traction, it's just a matter of time before more potent mods start showing up that really DO make a difference.

 

In the personal context, jailbreaking a device for this sort of thing is a poor choice. It's not a poor choice like getting a full-body tattoo of the lyrics to "Ice, Ice, Baby," but still not a great plan.

 


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Abrams_Army #34 Posted 07 September 2015 - 05:19 PM

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This game should be treated like NASCAR in many respects- we all have the same basic equipment to work with and therefore (in theory) a level playing field.  We also all know that one's WR is not always an accurate reflection of how good (or bad) one is, especially if the earleir days of your Blitz "career" was spent yoloing and shooting HE at everybody (oops- that's me).  If someone is going to all these lengths to get an advantage and think that it is "fine" to have to use a mod with the term JAIL BREAK in it, then I grieve for our next generation (and not- of course- just for that reason alone)...Most of us have lots of integrity despite being in our faceless separate electronic corners spread out across North America.  BUT, if there are players out there using these mods, then I strongly disagree with that choice.  Becuase ultimately, it is a choice someone is making to use a mod NOT sanctioned by WG for this game. I'm done venting.  :B

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osxuser93 #35 Posted 07 September 2015 - 05:25 PM

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Two thoughts:

 

First: As Str8upJack already pointed out, a mod like this makes it distinctly unpleasant to play, because when I get modules damaged again and again, I will wonder "was that guy using a hack, or was I playing badly?" And when a 45% WR player wins epically, I will wonder "was that a fair win and he's getting better, or was he just a cheater?" 

 

Second: From a technical standpoint, my strong suspicion is that a mod like this works by accessing the game's hit skin files. Normally this type of access would be disabled by iOS's app permissions, but jailbreaking can bypass those. It may be too late now (someone has undoubtedly made copies of these files already), but it seems like WG could use some sort of encryption/permissioning system to protect these files and ensure that they were only readable by the game. Perhaps encrypt the hit skin files, and then embed the decryption key into the game's compiled binary so that it wouldn't be easily extractable by hackers. (This is just educated guessing, because although I'm a computer scientist and have done some iOS development, I haven't actually tried anything like this.)



Lokeen #36 Posted 07 September 2015 - 05:29 PM

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This is an advantage not offered by WG and not offered as part of the game. It is an unfair advantage and I consider it cheating. 

Just knowing that this is out there is making me think twice about even loading up the game. 

 

If this is going to continue to be allowed in the game then I'll be closing my WG account and quitting blitz. 

 

 



Rion12 #37 Posted 07 September 2015 - 05:55 PM

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As someone who actually spent a good amount of time studying and memorizing ammo rack and other module locations, the existence of such mods annoys me quite a bit. 

 

It provides an advantage that normally only came with semi-extensive study and memorization. It renders pointless the study that some players put in so that they could perforate other tanks' engines/ammo racks/fuel tanks more consistently than the average player. I honestly feel that players who bothered to put in the extra time to search and memorize module and crew locations should really be the only ones who should be able to have such an advantage. Having a module locator mod makes it so that hitting modules is no harder than trying to hit a not-red area.



MSixteen #38 Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:18 PM

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I have the module/crew location mod installed. I also played PC for YEARS before Blitz even came out, so I already knew where to shoot to damage whatever module. Not the crew, except for the driver in some tanks, but the modules like engines/ammo racks/fuel tanks I knew like the back of my hand.

 

The modules I have are for those who watch my videos so they can learn for themselves without having to look them up after the game. If you watch any of my videos before I installed the mods, and any of the videos after you won't notice any change in where I aim. Besides... I snapshot the majority of the time and don't fully aim anyways so the mod is no help to ME personally.

 

I do recognize that the mod could easily be exploited, which is the intention of the creators, but I personally don't gain any benefit from it. If you do not believe me, I don't really care. I know why I installed the mod, and it wasn't to give myself an 'edge'.


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WriterDude #39 Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:32 PM

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View PostLokeen, on 07 September 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

This is an advantage not offered by WG and not offered as part of the game. It is an unfair advantage and I consider it cheating. 

Just knowing that this is out there is making me think twice about even loading up the game. 

 

If this is going to continue to be allowed in the game then I'll be closing my WG account and quitting blitz. 

 

I am 100% with you - I certainly think this is cheating. Regardless of any other factor, it creates an un-level playing field. 

 

I'm not sure I'd go as far as deleting my WG account, but at the same time, this entire topic makes me feel a little anxious about the game. I almost wonder if the answer would be to switch off to the XBox edition, where presumably it would be much more difficult to modify the game files.

 

Cheating is toxic in any context, but cheating in a game leaves me feeling the cheater has a character deficit. 

 

I'm considering what actions I need to do in response. I know for certain that any videos that I see with these interface mods will generate a report to WG. Has anyone had a chance to communicate with WG staff?

 

I reported this to WG support this morning as a rules violation. Has anyone else reported this to WG Support? Do the forum mods have any comment on this?


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BR1XT0N #40 Posted 07 September 2015 - 07:45 PM

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Man, I dunno what to think about this. Like I've already said, I just don't think it gives anyone enough of an advantage to actually get upset about.  I know for me personally, most of the shots I fire are aimed at the center mass of whatever part of the tank is exposed. It's pretty rare that I'm in a situation where I'm taking careful aim, and when I do, I'm mostly shooting for the engine. The location of a tanks engine is not one of the great mysteries of the universe. Secondly, to me, a rule that's not enforced isn't really a rule.

 

So that's how I feel about it, but I see on the forums and in other messaging discussion that people who I respect are upset about it. What I'd like to see happen is for WG to take a position on it and then actually enforce whatever decision they make. In the mean time, I'll jail break my iPad and tell you guys if my WR jumps.

 

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