74 replies to this topic

[the_fowlers_snare]

So thankful I'm reading the forum today.  This was an in-game convo recently.

At 99% crew, almost every tank I've looked at has nothing to gain from getting to 100%, except 1 category.  Maybe .01 reload time for instance.  Some tanks have no gain to listed stats.

For those tanks that have no improvement to aiming time going from 99% to 100% crew, what impact does vents have taking it from 100% to 105%?  Or food to 110% / 115% for that matter?

Not to derail topic, but with this logic, how exactly is vents & food important after 100% crew?  Soft stats only?  Certain tanks have more to gain than others?

[reluctanttheist]

Vents impact everything.  Vents adds 5% to overall crew skills, and has been measured as providing 2.5% improvements to everything - reload and aim time, view range, even traverse.  It makes you tank a titch better than the same tank without it.  Using rations + vents together is a good way to reduce load times on tanks with long load times, like the T34 and KV-2, and to make your tank crews perform at their absolute best.  Once you've got to 100% you than do go above 100% with your crew's skill by using these consumables and equipment.

[Praeceladon]

Coated optics, rammer, and stabilizer for my German meds,

For td it depends. Jp aims fast so I just use camo net, rammer, and optics. Don't need the egld.

[Praeceladon]

I thought vents only applied to skills that go from 1 to 5 and doesn't affect base stats. Skills don't take affect till 100% in a tank so that's the only time I use vents.

[reluctanttheist]

Your skills from 1-5 only take effect once you hit 100%, of course.  The effect of vents and rations is cumulative to wherever your current tank's crew is at, and where your skill levels are at.

[Praeceladon]

reluctanttheist, on 18 September 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Your skills from 1-5 only take effect once you hit 100%, of course.  The effect of vents and rations is cumulative to wherever your current tank's crew is at, and where your skill levels are at.

But do vents improve base stats before 100%? if it only affects the 1-5 skills in your skill tree the vents and consumable food are both useless until the tank is 100% then.

 

[Ksftwe]

ahredstealth, on 18 September 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

I politely disagree.  If you're getting ammo racked that often you are over exposing.  I've never run a wet ammo rack in any of my Russian mediums.  I've been racked twice, maybe three times in my T44 when I showed a tank with a big gun my side, and a time or two in my T-34-85 which includes both my Victory and the standard.

 

Don't over extend, keep moving, and keep your Rack Covered, and you can use equipment that will help you in every battle.  I think you will see more benefit from that then a wet ammo rack.

 

I have an 81% WR in the Obj 140, so I don't think I'm playing the tank egregiously wrong. But I've been full health ammo racked a total of 5 times now, and half-health ammo racked at least two times on top of that. Sometimes it's not things you can control like overexposing; a hidden 268 could snipe you on the right and make that bomb go off, or you could be brawling, get tracked, then get hit from the side, etc.

 

I still run Optics over Wet Racks or Vents (which I personally dislike using because I notice no differences even when I try to find one), but if you use Wet Racks, there's nothing wrong with that.

[reluctanttheist]

Praeceladon, on 18 September 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

But do vents improve base stats before 100%? if it only affects the 1-5 skills in your skill tree the vents and consumable food are both useless until the tank is 100% then.

 

Yes they would - so they'd take your 75% crew stats and give them the improvements described for each.

Edited by reluctanttheist, 18 September 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[ACE_Pham_]

While we're at it, let's get reload in the discussion.

 

 

 

Let's use the T34 Tier 8 premium as an example, 4 rounds (EXACTLY 4) a minute, which is 15 seconds for a reload.

 

With only a Gun Rammer, it makes the Reload 13.5 seconds.

 

With only Vents, it makes the reload 14.25 seconds

 

With only Adrenaline, it makes the reload 11.25 seconds.

 

With all 3, it makes the reload 9 seconds......

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ahredstealth]

Ksftwe, on 18 September 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

I have an 81% WR in the Obj 140, so I don't think I'm playing the tank egregiously wrong. But I've been full health ammo racked a total of 5 times now, and half-health ammo racked at least two times on top of that. Sometimes it's not things you can control like overexposing; a hidden 268 could snipe you on the right and make that bomb go off, or you could be brawling, get tracked, then get hit from the side, etc.

 

I still run Optics over Wet Racks or Vents (which I personally dislike using because I notice no differences even when I try to find one), but if you use Wet Racks, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Only 81?  I think there is room for improvement there.  

 

I believe you are correct that full health ammo racks do happen, and will happen more as you go up in tiers, both because of TD skill, and bigger, better ammo rounds in said TD...

 

That being said, you admit that you run rammer, V-stabs, and optics...

 

Do you feel that Optics every match outweigh the 5 full health and 2 half health ammo racks you've had in the past 450~ odd battles you've run the tank in?

 

In my T44, I was getting ammo racked maybe once every 75 games... ish... Maybe more like 50... It's been a while now.

 

You're numbers say about once in every 65 games in your OBJ 140.

 

So the question becomes "Wet Ammo Rack for 1 out of every (we'll say) 50 games" versus "Optics helping you every game," which is more beneficial?

 

I also believe what I was commenting about was the statement "You need a wet ammo rack" for Russian mediums like they are a time bomb, and that fixes the problem.  I disagree with the statement of "need" a wet ammo rack.  If you are getting ammo racked even once every ten games, that may be more of a player problem then a tank problem.

 

However, I will quite humbly admit that I am no where near the master of Russian mediums, and will bow out to your superior skill.  So, Yoda, do you advise Wet Racks in that third equipment spot?  Because I've got the T-shirt and the hose ready.  I'm all about that competition.

Edited by ahredstealth, 13 November 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[reluctanttheist]

Ksftwe, on 18 September 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

I have an 81% WR in the Obj 140, so I don't think I'm playing the tank egregiously wrong. But I've been full health ammo racked a total of 5 times now, and half-health ammo racked at least two times on top of that. Sometimes it's not things you can control like overexposing; a hidden 268 could snipe you on the right and make that bomb go off, or you could be brawling, get tracked, then get hit from the side, etc.

 

I still run Optics over Wet Racks or Vents (which I personally dislike using because I notice no differences even when I try to find one), but if you use Wet Racks, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

+1 for use of the word "egregious"

[99caliber]

But doesn't it all depend on what tank your driving?

[reluctanttheist]

This thread is about the best combo for aim time.  We are comparing the benefits of EGLD + Vstab versus Vents + Vstab.  The latter is the preferred combo whenever possible.  This combo would apply to meds and heavies and possibly TDs in an aggressive mode.  TDs or mediums playing scout could go for binocs and/or camo net.

Edited by reluctanttheist, 20 November 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[Psychopathy]

Should add the consumable 10% extra crew skills?

[Worship_Him]

in my opinion always get the gun rammer

[PA60Pilot]

I'm going to disagree with this graph "a little".  I think the premise is good, but the execution is lacking a little.  The problem I have is the time this chart assumes it takes to aim is 1 "something"...I assume it's a second...though I'm unaware of any tank that has a one second aim time.

 

The longer the aim time, the more pronounced the benefit is with egld.  This is shown clearly on the chart.  What would it look like if the chart went to the longest aim times in the game - say the 3.4 seconds of the T34?  

 

The chart supports the argument that vents are superior for most of the first second (I can only assume, since the axis is not labled), but towards the end, EGLD starts to pull away.  I suspect there will be a significant difference at second number 3 between vents and EGLD.

 

Am I reading something wrong?  I ran vents for 1100 battles on the T34, before switching to EGLD.  It's much more livable with EGLD.

[Lephturn]

My issues is that this measures % bloom remaining and that leaves out something REALLY important. The size of the aiming circle. I don't need to wait for it to fully shrink if the circle is smaller to begin with. I only need it to get small enough to be effective.  What I really want to see is which combination gets me to a small enough circle at say 200 meters that I have a good probability of hitting my target. That may mean that the combination that is the best for a heavy with massive bloom and a big starting aim circle won't be the right choice for a medium with a smaller starting aiming circle and less bloom.

 

If I only really need to get the circle down to 50% on one tank and setup vs. 70% on another tank and equipment setup to get the same shot that will make a big difference.

 

I need to take the time to test it. Oh training rooms - what we'll be able to do once you arrive!

[WhiskeyCyclone]

Funny seeing this thread again, last night I was driving my Pz. S35, and noticed I had the EGLD installed. What? Aim time is 1.1 seconds, there is no faster aim time in game than that, why did I install EGLD in the first place? Wasted equipment slot right there. So now I'm going back to see if there are any other equipment errors I've overlooked. It's never a bad idea to check those early tanks for redundant or just plain stupid load outs.

[reluctanttheist]

The time graph is a ratio of total aim time.  1 on the graph above would relate to the aim time of a tank without equipment, and you can see the percentage improvements with various combos of equipment.  The T34 is a good tank to try these combos out on.  I noticed that sufficient bloom reduction to targets seemed faster with the Vstab alone vs GLD alone - so I was able to drop the GLD and use Vents to help with reload time, which is the Achilles' heel of the T34.  It helps reduce reload time by 2.5%, so 0.4 seconds, which I confirmed.  I timed the effect in a recorded game and I went frame-by-frame between firing and fully reloading to make sure I had the numbers right.  Given the long aim time of the T34, you'd think you'd want the Vstab and GLD, but the reload time screams for help even more because it's so long.  Given the decent accuracy of the T34's gun, I simply don't miss the GLD, but sure like the help with load time. Combining Vents and GLD drops your aim time another 3% over Vents + Vstab, but given that Vents improves hull and turret traverse, improves terrain resistance values and helps with the T-34's abysmal view range, it's a no-brainer to use Vents instead of the GLD if your tank can mount Vstab.

 

TL;DR version: Vents knocks more off reload time than aim time because reload time is MUCH longer.

Edited by reluctanttheist, 14 December 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[_Whiplash]

Great graph! Equipment is a tricky thing. Okay so we are talking about aiming here right? Not just your equipment in general. The choice of equipment has a lot to do with how you're playing the tank. Let's make an example of two completely different play styles. The Leo vs the obj140, one is a sniper one is a brawler. GLD holds no benefits while you're moving and only comes into play when you stop your tank and aim. Vstabs don't actually reduce your aim time. Vstabs only reduce the size of your bloom during movement or turret rotation. Even if your tank can't get Vstabs doesn't always mean get a GLD either. Say your tank can't get Vstabs but has a 2.2 second aim time. You'd be silly to slap a GLD on your tank when there are far more viable options such as optics or vents. Don't forget that food stacks with vents so there already you've outweighed your GLD and have + to all of your skills. Both of those tanks don't require GLD anyways due to their excellent aim time. There is a "general" equipment layout by really each tank needs to be dealt with case by case.