53 replies to this topic

[alexbuildit]

CptCheez, on 05 October 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

Whaaaaat?  Where's the footage I gave you of the T2 Light taking a ramp with Speed Boost?? 

Oops.... I thought you had something planned for those :-) .... It's still coming right?

[reluctanttheist]

ahredstealth, on 05 October 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Now it looks like there will be multiple ways to approach through the town, the desert fun is still there, and TDs will have to do more then climb a hill and cop a squat.

 

Yet is this not a viable strategy?  Using a teammate's view to score hits on tanks you can't see?  Seeing an enemy TD on Desert or Dead Rail means I have to watch out for TDs a bit more than usual - and that's also part of the games's strategy.  I would like to see old Oasis Palms brought back and present Desert Sands retained, yet keep the new versions of these maps too.

[CptCheez]

pgrass101, on 05 October 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Nice video, are the sandbags destroyable?

 

I would like to more about obstacles and cover.

 

Thanks guys just hints for future videos

 

Yes, they are destructible.  The archways that used to be there have been replaced with destructible sandbags.

 

Videos about obstacles and cover and such are more in the realm of a full walkthrough/guide, and that's not really the purpose of these.  We were asked to keep them to 3-4 minutes just to give an overview of the map changes.

 

alexbuildit, on 05 October 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Oops.... I thought you had something planned for those :-) .... It's still coming right?

 

It sure is!  

 

reluctanttheist, on 05 October 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I would like to see old Oasis Palms brought back and present Desert Sands retained, yet keep the new versions of these maps too.

 

I would agree about Oasis Palms.  That map is different enough in its old and new versions that they could be called different names.  Desert Sands isn't nearly as drastic of a reworking though, not enough to keep both versions and call them different things.

[pgrass101]

Thanks Captain looking forward to the full review

[ahredstealth]

reluctanttheist, on 05 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

 

Yet is this not a viable strategy?  Using a teammate's view to score hits on tanks you can't see?  Seeing an enemy TD on Desert or Dead Rail means I have to watch out for TDs a bit more than usual - and that's also part of the games's strategy.  I would like to see old Oasis Palms brought back and present Desert Sands retained, yet keep the new versions of these maps too.

 

But definitely not always the best strategy.  If you should be a second line support tank, and you're spawn kamping for your shots, you're not bouncing Red shots, or intimidating tanks not to make certain moves.

 

Also gets rid of randomly seeing a medium/heavy/scout tank climb the hill and park next to the TD...  which drove everyone nuts.

 

I think my opinion would also change if the "sniping location" wasn't right at spawn.  If you had to roll out somewhere and fight to secure the best location, then I could probably shrug it off.

 

But rolling 45 feet from your spawn location up a hill, and then sitting there for the rest of the match (unless the light bulb goes on) seems like it could be improved upon to me.

[mike82198]

reluctanttheist, on 05 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Yet is this not a viable strategy?

Irrespective of tank, map or tier, how often have you seen this game's recognized good players camp spawn? 

WG is not just pushing you and everyone else off the hills and into the fight, but is also nudging you to victory. 

Either way, there's an ideological process here: camping spawn is out.

[reluctanttheist]

I haven't watch a lot of hotshot videos with TD gameplay, so I have no idea what best player practices exist for TDs.  But having overwatch of your team, ready to fire a shot from someplace with a good vantage point makes sense to me.  As ahred points out - perhaps it's better to have such locations located some distance away from spawn to prevent kempshots, someplace that would require your team to spot for the TDs.  Malinovka has a couple of these at the base of the hill leading to the windmill, and both a fairly close to spawn too.

[ahredstealth]

mike82198, on 05 October 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Either way, there's an ideological process here: camping spawn is out.

 

It does almost seem like this is the case, doesn't it?  People complain that Mines is imbalanced, and Copperfield is boring, yet the two maps that have been redone are the ones that have people rolling just a few feet from spawn and then sitting for the rest of the match.

 

reluctanttheist, on 05 October 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

I haven't watch a lot of hotshot videos with TD gameplay, so I have no idea what best player practices exist for TDs.  But having overwatch of your team, ready to fire a shot from someplace with a good vantage point makes sense to me.  As ahred points out - perhaps it's better to have such locations located some distance away from spawn to prevent kempshots, someplace that would require your team to spot for the TDs.  Malinovka has a couple of these at the base of the hill leading to the windmill, and both a fairly close to spawn too.

 

I also will admit to having an almost complete lack of experience in most of the TD areas of the game.  However, when you see a AT-15A crawl its way on top of a hill right by spawn and then wait to shoot instead of holding the front line, bouncing shots, and tracking tanks on the front line it's kinda painful.  Some TDs have armor and guns that are far more useful then just "chillin on the hill."  You and I both have an AT-15A.  Would you take yours up there?  I pushed town with mine the few times I ran it on that map.

 

I'll also admit to rolling my T49 up into those very hills and playing one handed for the rest of the game because I could.  Or even in my Tetrarch.  That doesn't mean that my T49 will be completely useless now, or I will hate the new map, it just means I'll be playing it like other maps now.  Using cover, shoot and scoot, second line fire support, etc etc.

 

Plus, I would imagine for most new players who struggle with spotting dynamics to begin with, losing half your life on that map every game to an unseen adversary was probably pretty frustrating.  I know in a medium on that map, step one was always push the half-pipe, win there, and then move on and around to try and spot the TD that I KNEW would be sitting on top the hill, then wait for my team to blast him, and watch him boogie down the hill, and then pick him off as he flounders around wondering what to do next.

 

It's not the first map that I would have picked for a rework, but if they redid Oasis Palms because of a perceived problem, I can see that Desert Sands being high on the priority list for them.  (Them being WGing)

[_CH3F]

Love it. Can't wait. How do you get onto that trial map. Can I get on. Just to check it out. Whatcha think?

[CptCheez]

chefejl74, on 05 October 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Love it. Can't wait. How do you get onto that trial map. Can I get on. Just to check it out. Whatcha think?

 

Club Wargaming members are given early access to some updates in order to create preview content like this for the rest of the community.

[Ookla_the_Mok]

Meh. Hard to think too much before playing it, but not inspiring. Reworked town has some promise but there appears to be a level of topography that WG is using too often while eliminating the unique maps. Port Bay was a genius map, but the rework of Oasis and Desert have been a step below that level of success.

 

Many people hate on TDs sniping but a few maps should emphasise the importance of spotting mechanics, map use, etc.

[furicle]

Glass cannons are the biggest losers. 

 

All these high armour TDs will just end up playing like slow heavies, but the glass cannons are (again) put at a bigger disadvantage.

 

Sniping has got a bad name, and doesn't make for high wow factor video, so it got the short end of the stick.

[APaperTiger]

ahredstealth, on 05 October 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

 

I also will admit to having an almost complete lack of experience in most of the TD areas of the game.  However, when you see a AT-15A crawl its way on top of a hill right by spawn and then wait to shoot instead of holding the front line, bouncing shots, and tracking tanks on the front line it's kinda painful.  Some TDs have armor and guns that are far more useful then just "chillin on the hill." 

 

I'll also admit to rolling my T49 up into those very hills and playing one handed for the rest of the game because I could.  Or even in my Tetrarch.  That doesn't mean that my T49 will be completely useless now, or I will hate the new map, it just means I'll be playing it like other maps now.  Using cover, shoot and scoot, second line fire support, etc etc.

 

Plus, I would imagine for most new players who struggle with spotting dynamics to begin with, losing half your life on that map every game to an unseen adversary was probably pretty frustrating.  I know in a medium on that map, step one was always push the half-pipe, win there, and then move on and around to try and spot the TD that I KNEW would be sitting on top the hill, then wait for my team to blast him, and watch him boogie down the hill, and then pick him off as he flounders around wondering what to do next.

 

It's not the first map that I would have picked for a rework, but if they redid Oasis Palms because of a perceived problem, I can see that Desert Sands being high on the priority list for them.  (Them being WGing)

 

Bingo. Some TDs are meant to camp and snipe. Some TDs are meant to brawl and push. I'd be the last one to advocate for an AT 2 or a T18 to climb the southern hill on Desert Sands and snipe. But that is exactly what a T49, SU-85, or PzJag I should do. If you've never seen the beauty of a green Crusader sitting in a desert shrub silent as a submarine while your T49 destroys half the red team, you've missed out!

 

I get that medium players love to flank, circle, and slither through hills. I get that heavies love to angle and peek-a-boom in cities. But mediums already have Falls Creek, Dead Rail, Oasis Palms (new), Rockfield (new) and Middleburg. Heavies already have Port Bay, Desert Sands, Fort Despair, and Middleburg.

 

Ookla_the_Mok, on 05 October 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Meh. Hard to think too much before playing it, but not inspiring. Reworked town has some promise but there appears to be a level of topography that WG is using too often while eliminating the unique maps. Port Bay was a genius map, but the rework of Oasis and Desert have been a step below that level of success.

 

Many people hate on TDs sniping but a few maps should emphasise the importance of spotting mechanics, map use, etc.

 

Exactly. When I'm in a light tank and certain maps come up, my first thought is: Oh, man, this is going to suck. There should be at least one or two maps where light tank drivers are licking their chops while medium tank drivers are scrambling to get behind solid cover and heavy tank drivers are wondering what happened to their health pools.

 

I agree with those who hate camping from spawn. I'd be cool with putting the sniper ledges on the east and west sides of Desert Sands so that TDs had to work to get there. The lighthouse on Mines and the water tower on Copperfield come to mind as sniping positions that are earned, not given away. But I think there should be one or two maps where heavy tanks and slower medium tanks feel pinned down and paralyzed by sniper fire. I think that would balance out some of the maps where TDs feel press-ganged into service as front-line heavies and where light tanks feel press-ganged into service as medium flankers.

[APaperTiger]

Also… we can drive our tanks up on the wings of the crashed airplane? Are the wings made of Stalinium, then? And if so, then what on Earth caused such a stronk plane to crash in the desert?

[CptCheez]

APaperTiger, on 05 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

Also… we can drive our tanks up on the wings of the crashed airplane?

 

Yup, you sure can!  Not sure why you'd want to, but you can...

[_Kase]

CptCheez, on 05 October 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

Yup, you sure can!  Not sure why you'd want to, but you can...

 

maybe to get a better view of the cap, (if the dunes are in the way from below the plane) to blind shot reset, maybe, or if your view range is good enough

[Junk_Fuel]

Nice video alex n cheez!! Waiting for the ramp jumping lol!

And i am so happy they removed thoes camp hills. The only tank ive ever drove up thoes hills in was the Churchill gc cause i was sooooo desperate for a win  and we ended up losing the match anyways.  Imo thoes hills are absolutely useless 70% of the games. I admit ive seen a few matches someone pull off a great game being there. But they had the team to make the difference. Or the knowledge to take advantage of it. Or luck cause if i ever try to camp i get heavies keeping me company......

Edited by Dead_Fr0g, 05 October 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[ahredstealth]

APaperTiger, on 05 October 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Bingo. Some TDs are meant to camp and snipe. Some TDs are meant to brawl and push. I'd be the last one to advocate for an AT 2 or a T18 to climb the southern hill on Desert Sands and snipe. But that is exactly what a T49, SU-85, or PzJag I should do. If you've never seen the beauty of a green Crusader sitting in a desert shrub silent as a submarine while your T49 destroys half the red team, you've missed out!

 

A T49 is not meant to be stationary and snipe.  I'm saying I've done it.  It can work, but I do not feel it is always the best option.  If you do not use the unreal speed of a T49, you are missing out on one of the best shoot and scoot tanks in the game.

 

Ookla_the_Mok, on 05 October 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

 Port Bay was a genius map, but the rework of Oasis and Desert have been a step below that level of success.

 

I do love me some Port Bay, and it's probably currently my favorite map, but I do wonder how long it will be until it's "everyone fights in the hills, then rolls to the city" instead of the random-ness of what we have now... Sort of like how long it took for everyone to roll hills on Middleburg...

 

I think the city could have been done a bit differently, but that's only a small issue with an otherwise fun map.

 

I think every map will have an issue if you dig into it far enough.

[christian1470]

Dead_Fr0g, on 05 October 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Nice video alex n cheez!! Waiting for the ramp jumping lol!

And i am so happy they removed thoes camp hills. The only tank ive ever drove up thoes hills in was the Churchill gc cause i was sooooo desperate for a win  and we ended up losing the match anyways.  Imo thoes hills are absolutely useless 70% of the games. I admit ive seen a few matches someone pull off a great game being there. But they had the team to make the difference. Or the knowledge to take advantage of it. Or luck cause if i ever try to camp i get heavies keeping me company......

Yeah, Nope. Desert sands campsites were THE best places for an E-25, EVER! If only they had the original oasis palms when the E-25 came out. I agree that some TDs are MEANT to camp and snipe. If they weren't, they would have sufficient armor. There would be no camo nets or binoculars. Some TDs are meant to stay out of view range, but too many maps already make it almost impossible to do so. Fort despair and the new oasis palms are close to impossible. WG is sacrificing variety for some perceived ideal that just isn't ideal at all for TDs. In three updates we went from 6 snipe-able maps to 4. The thing is, there was NOTHING WRONG with either of those two maps to begin with. I WANT NEW MAPS! I don't care if we get the flat desert of Egypt or steppes of Russia, as long as it is new. I'm tired of WG replacing or "upgrading" maps that were fine and already fun. And anyone who comes out with the draw complaint can just sit back down. If you draw on any map, it is because you didn't watch the clock. No other reason. 

[CptCheez]

christian1470, on 05 October 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

And anyone who comes out with the draw complaint can just sit back down. If you draw on any map, it is because you didn't watch the clock. No other reason. 

 

"The draw complaint" was never a thing.  Nobody complained about how Oasis Palms had too many draws.  WG on their very own, believe it or not, looked at the data they had and came to the conclusion that more games ended in Draws on Oasis Palms than on any other map.  That's why they redid the map, to try to reduce the number of Draws.  It wasn't because anybody complained about it.

Edited by CptCheez, 05 October 2015 - 10:33 PM.