53 replies to this topic

[Junk_Fuel]

christian1470, on 05 October 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

Yeah, Nope. Desert sands campsites were THE best places for an E-25, EVER! If only they had the original oasis palms when the E-25 came out. I agree that some TDs are MEANT to camp and snipe. If they weren't, they would have sufficient armor. There would be no camo nets or binoculars. Some TDs are meant to stay out of view range, but too many maps already make it almost impossible to do so. Fort despair and the new oasis palms are close to impossible. WG is sacrificing variety for some perceived ideal that just isn't ideal at all for TDs. In three updates we went from 6 snipe-able maps to 4. The thing is, there was NOTHING WRONG with either of those two maps to begin with. I WANT NEW MAPS! I don't care if we get the flat desert of Egypt or steppes of Russia, as long as it is new. I'm tired of WG replacing or "upgrading" maps that were fine and already fun. And anyone who comes out with the draw complaint can just sit back down. If you draw on any map, it is because you didn't watch the clock. No other reason. 

I agree new maps are awesome. And maybe i might agree some of the changes might be missed. But i think desert sands was in need for a update.  It became predictable.  And many tankers wernt even thinking before trugging to their "chosen" path. Pfft i am the only green med vs a entire red med team.  I must go desert!  It is where med tanks fight!

 

But the old oasis palms.....i would have been happy if they just removed it(which they kinda did). Lol. It was memorable for a few rounds.  But many games became frustrating with the actions with your own team. And the enemy.   

 

Also i cannot play the e-25 sitting still. I know i should sometime.   But i enjoy zipping around the map too much fun in it. And sneeking under tanks gun depression.  Lolol

Edited by Dead_Fr0g, 06 October 2015 - 03:05 AM.

[christian1470]

CptCheez, on 05 October 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

"The draw complaint" was never a thing.  Nobody complained about how Oasis Palms had too many draws.  WG on their very own, believe it or not, looked at the data they had and came to the conclusion that more games ended in Draws on Oasis Palms than on any other map.  That's why they redid the map, to try to reduce the number of Draws.  It wasn't because anybody complained about it.

There were plenty of draw complaints on both oasis palms and then castilla when it first came out. 

[christian1470]

Dead_Fr0g, on 05 October 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

I agree new maps are awesome. And maybe i might agree some of the changes might be missed. But i think desert sands was in need for a update.  It became predictable.  And many tankers wernt even thinking before trugging to their "chosen" path. Pfft i am the only green med vs a entire red med team.  I must go desert!  It is where med tanks fight!

 

But the old oasis palms.....i would have been happy if they just removed it(which they kinda did). Lol. It was memorable for a few rounds.  But many games became frustrating with the actions with your own team. And the enemy.   

 

Also i cannot play the e-25 sitting still. I know i should sometime.   But i enjoy zipping around the map too much fun in it. And sneeking under tanks gun depression.  Lolol

Tactics change over time. Right now, desert sands is "all desert" unless there are no mediums in the line up, it won't be long before someone imaginative starts flanking through town while the main column goes "all desert". About the only map that doesn't really have a preferred strategy is port bay, but even that is becoming somewhat regular. Original oasis palms was "all hill" then "all dunes" when they changed the cap. Both versions were fun. Also, teams can be frustrating on any map. How many games have you lost because of mound campers on lost temple? Should they change that, too? If they dumb down the maps so much that no one can make a mistake, the game will be boring. 

As for the E-25, I play it both ways. I usually start the game, if possible, somewhere high under the camo net, but end up zipping around and facehugging bumpers by the end, if I last that long.

[ahredstealth]

christian1470, on 06 October 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

 About the only map that doesn't really have a preferred strategy is port bay, but even that is becoming somewhat regular.

 

Take the hills first.  Stay out of the city.  Once you have cleared the hills, move in from several directions at once on the city tankers.

 

I thought this was pretty standard strategy?

[mike82198]

christian1470, on 05 October 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

If you draw on any map, it is because you didn't watch the clock. No other reason. 

Untrue. Some draws are simply unavoidable, given the mixtures of map, tank and tankers. There exist deadlocks which cannot be resolved sufficiently fast to enable cap. There are tanks and tankers that can prevent cap while outnumbered, outgunned and out-hp'ed because of the tank they're driving, and how they drive on a certain map.
 

CptCheez, on 05 October 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Nobody complained about how Oasis Palms had too many draws.  

Untrue. 

 

ahredstealth, on 05 October 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

It does almost seem like this is the case, doesn't it?  People complain that Mines is imbalanced, and Copperfield is boring, yet the two maps that have been redone are the ones that have people rolling just a few feet from spawn and then sitting for the rest of the match.

 

Copperfield is boring (and imbalanced), but it is not predictable in a bad way. I always have to put in some thought into how I play it - and in a sense that is good. I recall Silver81 and I getting it twice and toon-chatting to each other "no idea what to do" on both occasions - and not because we got the short end of the stick from the MM. That's not common. Old, small and limited but still unpredictable at times - and perhaps the most Kolobanov friendly map for a smart player. If they remove the imbalanced elements, I'd be happy with it. Ditto Mines. 

[ahredstealth]

mike82198, on 06 October 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Copperfield is boring (and imbalanced), but it is not predictable in a bad way. I always have to put in some thought into how I play it - and in a sense that is good. I recall Silver81 and I getting it twice and toon-chatting to each other "no idea what to do" on both occasions - and not because we got the short end of the stick from the MM. That's not common. Old, small and limited but still unpredictable at times - and perhaps the most Kolobanov friendly map for a smart player. If they remove the imbalanced elements, I'd be happy with it. Ditto Mines. 

 

I can usually find enough ways to get myself killed on Copperfield to keep it interesting, and most of my Mines battles are decided by flanking mediums or camping heavies more then anything else...  I'm actually not that concerned.

 

But the real question in my mind is will these maps get a touch up before clan wars?  Teams of Randoms can be shrugged off, but I think you will see much more upper echelon raging when they feel they have lost because they got the wrong side of a map in a game against their peers.

[CptCheez]

mike82198, on 06 October 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Untrue. 

 

Um, ok, congrats, you found one thread.  That thread is not the reason WG changed the map, and that was my entire point.  It wasn't complaints about draws that prompted them to change it.  It was the Draws themselves.

[mike82198]

CptCheez, on 06 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Um, ok, congrats, you found one thread.  That thread is not the reason WG changed the map, and that was my entire point.  It wasn't complaints about draws that prompted them to change it.  It was the Draws themselves.

I can find many more. Next time try to make your point without patently false statements - and if you can't, at least don't whine when they're shown to be such. 

[CptCheez]

mike82198, on 06 October 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

I can find many more. Next time try to make your point without patently false statements - and if you can't, at least don't whine when they're shown to be such. 

 

Congratulations.  You're a master of the forum search function.  +1 to you for that.  But in your searching to try to prove me wrong, you missed the entire point of my post to begin with.  The reason the map was changed was not because people were complaining about Draws.  It doesn't matter how many threads you can find with people complaining about that.  That's not why it was changed.

 

If you can't be civil, at least try not being so hostile and condescending.

Edited by CptCheez, 06 October 2015 - 03:17 PM.

[mike82198]

CptCheez, on 06 October 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

If you can't be civil, at least try not being so hostile and condescending.

 

Oh, the irony... 

You said something utterly false and I gently corrected you. Now you're whining to the high heavens because you just can't live that down. 

[CptCheez]

mike82198, on 06 October 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

You said something utterly false and I gently corrected you. Now you're whining to the high heavens because you just can't live that down. 

 

Yeah, wasn't "whining" then, still not whining now.  But keep it up.  You're looking awesome.

 

Would you like me to say "you're right, Mike, I made an incorrect statement"?  There you go.  It's said.  Now you can get off your high horse.  I misstated.  I should have said "The map wasn't changed because people complained" instead of "nobody complained".  Happy now?  You're vindicated.  Go about your day.

Edited by CptCheez, 06 October 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[SonnetVolta]

I'm going to miss the old Desert Sands map.

 

But not as much as this guy is:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

He died. Duh.

 

Edited by SonnetVolta, 06 October 2015 - 11:54 PM.

[mike82198]

SonnetVolta, on 06 October 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

I'm going to miss the old Desert Sands map.

 

But not as much as this guy is...

That's what I think most of the "no more room for me to snipe" people don't get: it's not about them, it's about the guy who takes his E50 to camp a hill near spawn. WG look at the general dynamic of play on a map (which is often differs greatly from how they presumed it would be when creating the map) and see whether its in accordance to their ideological desire to see quick and dynamic combat. Rockfield, where you had bushes and bunkers firing at bushes and bunkers for 4 minutes, is same.

This reminds me of a conversation recently where someone was talking about Jingles videos, proper spotting, etc. when referring to the use of a tier 2 light tank. This game isn't WoT PC. Why does it have glass cannon TDs then? For the same reason it has Leopards. If you want to try and you're good enough, you can. You don't have to. 
 

CptCheez, on 06 October 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Would you like me to say "you're right, Mike, I made an incorrect statement"?  There you go.  It's said.  Now you can get off your high horse.  I misstated.  I should have said "The map wasn't changed because people complained" instead of "nobody complained".  Happy now?  You're vindicated.  Go about your day.

No, just quietly move on sans the passive-aggressive drama. That's what most normal people do. 

[CptCheez]

mike82198, on 08 October 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

No, just quietly move on sans the passive-aggressive drama. That's what most normal people do. 

 

Let it go, Mike.  Just let it go.