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T-54 is long overdue for a nerf

T-54 HEAT Russian Bias Tier 9

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Player_5773117413 #1 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:03 PM

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Hey all and welcome to this controversial yet valid thread. You read the title so that's why you are here. And if you haven't read the title, I'll assume you are illiterate. No shame in that, it's never too late to learn. Let us not waste time and proceed to the issue at hand:

 

Most of us like the T-54 and we all acknowledge that it is a powerful, possibly even OP tank. Nearly everyone has completed, is currently grinding, or is planning to grind the Russian medium line. One of the reasons for this is because the line is full of reputable tanks, including the T-54. But let's be honest with ourselves for a minute here; is the T-54 too powerful?

 

The issue

 

The T-54 is prized for being one of the best in a category consisting of not only Tier 9 Medium Tanks, but ALL Tier 9 tanks. Why? Because it has many, many strengths in many categories that almost completely outweight its downsides.

 

Lets start with mobility, which is supposed to be the most important category for mediums. The T54 boasts incredible mobility. It has a good power to weight ratio that allows it to accelerate quickly all the way to a top speed of well over 50 kph (56 to be exact iirc). Along with that, the T54 is agile as well, boasting traverse rates far beyond most of its peers.

 

Lets go on to the armor. Effective frontal protection of the T54 surpasses NEARLY EVERY Tier 8 Heavy Tank. Although not invincible, the T54 can absorb a lot of enemy fire and the armor's trollish factor makes it a tricky tank to kill, if the mobility didn't make the job hard enough. The front glacis plate of the hull, though not incredibly thick (120mm), is very well angled, sometimes resulting in even the biggest of shots ricocheting. The turret, typical hemispherical design of the Ruskis, is also incredibly strong, vulnerable to only the biggest of shots and not even guaranteeing them a pen then!

 

And then we have the guns. Both top guns offer a decently fast rate of fire, but both lack a bit in terms of alpha. Well.....they did, til WG decided to raise it up by another 10 damage. The accuracy on the guns is also meh, not bad but far from the best. What is the real kicker with the t54 gun choice is the [OP] penetration ability of prammo. With some 330 mm of average pen, the heat rounds fired from the t54 can theoretically drill through the front of any tank in the game (some place in the front, that is). Yet somehow, most of the t54's peers have prammo that only penetrates the equivalent of regular tier 10 rounds.

 

So...top notch mobility, top notch armor, and nearly all conquering armament. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................... Most other mediums in this class do good in one, maybe two of these categories. A tank that nearly excels in all three? And how exactly is this fair to the rest of the tier?

 

Why WG hasn't done anything about it

 

So in the intro we briefly discussed how everyone and their grandmother along with her retirement home friends have completed or are in the process of completing the Russian medium tank line. What does this mean? Many t54s. Lots and lots of t54s. The server is flooded with t54s. There are so many t54s in fact, that you typically see 4-5 of em per team in most tier 9 games.

 

Now, with so many t54s usually facing each other off, the average server win rate of the t54 becomes a zero sum game. Why? Simply put, for every t54 that wins, the one on the opposing team losses. Therefore, the win rate stays relatively stable.

 

And because WG buffs and nerds tanks based on win rates, they therefore see no need to nerf the t54, oblivious to the reason above. In fact, they decided it needed a buff...

 

The solution

 

Nerf something about this tank. That heat pen is ridiculous! Maybe thin out that frontal armor. Something. Anything!

 

For those of you already screaming and crying after reading through all this, wipe off your tears with the hand you use to [content pre-moderated] and keep your eyes peeled for this next part:

 

How about we drop in a T-55 or the real production T-62 as an additional tier 10 to keep you guys happy? Similar, if not far better performance to your bulk bought T-54s. Sure it'd take time and it'd require a lot of work on the part of WG, but at least in the meantime you can play around with your Objects.........................(dang it, i forgot which object number the medium one was)

 

- kewl


Edited by kewlstory, 07 October 2015 - 06:04 PM.

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dilusions #2 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:06 PM

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i think the other meds should be buffed. 100mms wreck the 105's of other mediums



Rion12 #3 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:10 PM

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View PostTrandecend, on 07 October 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

i think the other meds should be buffed. 100mms wreck the 105's of other mediums

 

That is somewhat like power creep, and that is generally one way that many games start to really see balance issues pop up.

 

It's not really true power creep, but I've seen enough games develop major balancing issues due to an "arms race"-type balancing model.


Edited by Rion12, 07 October 2015 - 06:14 PM.


dilusions #4 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:20 PM

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View PostRion12, on 07 October 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

That is somewhat like power creep, and that is generally one way that many games start to really see balance issues pop up.

 

It's not really true power creep, but I've seen enough games develop major balancing issues due to an "arms race"-type balancing model.

 

Well think about it though..I have never seen a normal player in a T54 lose to any medium from any other nation. The only possible way a 7/1 could win is if he facehugs and puts hesh into the upper plate, and even then he'll walk away missing much of his hitpoints.



Rion12 #5 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:25 PM

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View PostTrandecend, on 07 October 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

 

Well think about it though..I have never seen a normal player in a T54 lose to any medium from any other nation. The only possible way a 7/1 could win is if he facehugs and puts hesh into the upper plate, and even then he'll walk away missing much of his hitpoints.

 

I don't disagree the T-54 needs some re-balancing. Just about everything about it is idiotically strong.

 

However, let's look at it this way: You buff the other meds, and now the heavies and TDs from Tiers VII-X have to be re-adjusted so they don't get stomped by a bunch of T-54-tier meds. It's a nightmare to try to balance everything, so it'd be better if the T-54 instead got a little bit of a nerf to bring it down to the level of the other meds of its tier.


Edited by Rion12, 07 October 2015 - 06:26 PM.


dilusions #6 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:26 PM

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View PostRion12, on 07 October 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

 

I don't disagree the T-54 needs some re-balancing.

 

However, let's look at it this way: You buff the other meds, and now the heavies and TDs from Tiers VII-X have to be re-adjusted so they don't get stomped by a bunch of T-54-tier meds. It's a nightmare to try to balance everything, so it'd be better if the T-54 instead got a little bit of a nerf to bring it down to the level of the other meds of its tier.

 

Is there a dpm chart we could look at? Maybe we could work together and talk about what needs to be adjusted, shoot, we could even make a google doc and make our own dpm chart.



Rion12 #7 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:37 PM

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View PostTrandecend, on 07 October 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

 

Is there a dpm chart we could look at? Maybe we could work together and talk about what needs to be adjusted, shoot, we could even make a google doc and make our own dpm chart.

 

CptCheez's gun spreadsheet has DPMs listed, if you want to take a look at that. However, I do not know of any strict DPM comparison charts in existence around here.

 

I'll have to take a look later, though. Still got one more class to attend for the day.

 

I know my biggest personal gripe was the armor.


Edited by Rion12, 07 October 2015 - 06:38 PM.


TOMAS_legend_Xeraux #8 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:40 PM

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Just deal with it. It's not changing.

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Ptank2012 #9 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:44 PM

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The best way to solve this problem is for Wargaming actually give us the accurate hull armor for the T-54. The one we have currently has thicker armor because it's from the mod. 1946 T-54. The T-54 we have in-game with the all the up grade should only have 100mm of hull armor. Still pretty thick but penetrable.  

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_bel #10 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:53 PM

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View PostTrandecend, on 07 October 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

 

Well think about it though..I have never seen a normal player in a T54 lose to any medium from any other nation. The only possible way a 7/1 could win is if he facehugs and puts hesh into the upper plate, and even then he'll walk away missing much of his hitpoints.

Nah, I've almost never lost to a t54 in my m46. The t54 isn't that op. Its just a super noob friendly medium that has way too much armor.


Edited by _bel, 07 October 2015 - 06:54 PM.

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CptCheez #11 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:58 PM

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View PostTrandecend, on 07 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

 

Is there a dpm chart we could look at? Maybe we could work together and talk about what needs to be adjusted, shoot, we could even make a google doc and make our own dpm chart.

 

Yes, it's been up on Google Docs for almost a year now:

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/6425-all-tank-guns-in-one-spreadsheet/

 

If you'd like, I could put all the Tier 9 mediums into one tab for comparison's sake.  Or whatever else you want to compare side-by-side.


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_CH3F #12 Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:58 PM

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Don't say such words. I think it should get a sped buff and buff the rof

tjheff1066 #13 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:03 PM

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Good point on the amount of these friggin things.....seriously every tier 9 and 10 game seems to have 3-4 of these noob chariots flying around.

ahredstealth #14 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:05 PM

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Dear Blizzard

 

Warlock OP, plz nerf.

 

~ Thanks Shamans and Paladins.

 

 

The story repeats with different names over and over and over again.

 

 


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_XM551 #15 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:07 PM

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Just NO ;)

 

 


andyllinger #16 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:10 PM

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It's a great tank but not invincible, it has it's flaws like you can't peek a boom in a hull down position, something that the M46 and the 7/1 can do easily, as someone stated above i would like WG start buffing tanks instead of nerfing them.

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glass2707 #17 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:10 PM

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Personally I don't find the T-54 to be over powered.  All of the tier 9 mediums are very good except the PTA which is what it is.  My stats in the other mediums are better.  Even my PTA stats are better though that is a function of when I played them.  The T54 was my first tier 9 medium.  I didn't have lots of free exp at that point to unlock most of the modules right away, etc... .  So directly comparing my personal stats is somewhat misleading and favors the other mediums.

 

You guys are overselling the strengths and underselling the weaknesses.  Armor isn't as good as you make it out to be.  It has zero gun depression and the regular AP round has very mediocre pen.  In the right situation played to its strengths a T-54 is excellent.  Putting itself in those situations is hardly automatic though.  I don't see a T-54 on the other team and start worrying or anything.  The claim of some on this thread that they have never seen a T-54 lose one on one is absurd.  I see them defeated all the time by tanks at lower tiers even.  I have killed IS-7s with a Pershing.  KV-3s, Comets, etc with a JgPzIV.  Etc, etc...  

 



putnamJavi #18 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:13 PM

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View PostCptCheez, on 07 October 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

Yes, it's been up on Google Docs for almost a year now:

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/6425-all-tank-guns-in-one-spreadsheet/

 

If you'd like, I could put all the Tier 9 mediums into one tab for comparison's sake.  Or whatever else you want to compare side-by-side.

 

Or just check out wblitz where it's already been done for you.   Just select your preferences, tier, tank type and nations and viola!  LINK HERE

Icefang50 #19 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:28 PM

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T-54 is not in the top 5 in Win Rate or top 8 in damage ratio among tier IX. Maybe someone has an axe to grind, but the data doesn't support the hypothesis. 

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Praeceladon #20 Posted 07 October 2015 - 07:43 PM

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Lower its rof to 5 and give it 70 turret armor like Leo.
I think that's fair.

Just bought Leo and it's awful [edited].





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