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OronSonon #1 Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:30 AM

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TL; DR: How can I improve my ability to control not only my engagements, but also when and what engagements I get myself into? 

 

Warning: This will be a long read. However, I hope a few generous unicums will help me and all the other people struggling on the path to the top. 

 

Recently my winrate has been decline. My recent winrates has dropped from 73 to 66 to 59 to 38%. A few weeks into the update I started losing more and more. I dropped down to tiers 4-6 and still had trouble winning, a mixture between my teams failing me and myself not performing well enough. I was super close to 59.0% so I just wanted to get my winrate 1% closer to blue. 

 

However, after checking out Discord and seeing all the players with their 80% winrates in Dragons and 75% recent winrates, I stopped trying to sealclub my way to 59% and realized that I just wasn't good enough to be consistently winning 65+% of the time. So I decided I start looking up how to improve on the forums. 

 

I found this website and I started exclusively playing mostly solo in my tier tens. 

 

The result was nasty. Sure, I started to play smarter and be more aware of the bigger picture, which ultimately led me to having a 2550 avg damage across 30 battles (my overall avg dmg in tier ten is ~2350) and improving in just one single weekend. However, my winrate was 38% over those 30 battles. 38%. I was winning less than a noob who does 500 avg damage in tier ten. 

 

A few of the losses were close and I realize my mistakes in them, however, I think it's pretty clear that a lot of the games I lost were not my fault as I was carrying 125% of my weight. However, the fact that there were so many games where I just had no clue what I could have done, where I could have been, and how I could have done better to win those games really bothers me. 

 

One game there was an enemy unicum toon in heavies on Fort Despair. I was able to predict what they were gonna do fine, but I just didn't know how to counter it (I was in 62A). I ended up going to cap, spotting a couple of the enemy tanks as they headed down that brawling corner, landed a few shots on the enemy tanks hanging out in the middle, and then realized I had to go back as the unicum toon was pushing. I made my way back and we lost a tank in the process. I flanked the two heavies, but one of them just turned towards me while the other kept killing our friendly heavies. Our team started to die at that point. I did some more damage to that enemy unicum, trading shots as I didn't know what else I could do, and we ultimately lost 0-7. 

 

What was there that I could have done? I can brawl in that corner with the heavies, so I have to flank. If I flanked behind the enemy team I would be isolated from my team and swarmed by the enemy tier nine mediums. If I flanked through the middle id have to deal with the enemy mediums by peekabooming, which would make me lose a lot of health and allow the enemy unicum toon to destroy my team. I just don't understand what I can do in some games that would help my team win. I did 2000 damage, but that damage was useless in helping the team. 

 

Another game I was in my T-62A on himmelsdorf and my team had four mediums, and the enemy had three. The enemy team had more armor so i decided to go rails. I went down the middle of the rails and spotted an E3, an E4, and the three enemy mediums. I started shooting at the enemy mediums (I didn't have line of sight on the TDs) and maybe did 1400 while taking 600. However, I wasn't able to do enough damage and the TDs combined with the enemy heavy tanks that flanked had now taken out most of my team. What could I have done? Moved back and flanked to deal with the TDs? If I flanked to my right I'd have to deal with an enemy medium tank and relocating would take me around a minute. If I flanked to my right I would have to deal with the two heavies who were blocking that other. I understand I probably went to a bad starting position, but what could I have done differently after getting myself in that situation?

 

The problems I have and many others I believe are how I can position myself to counter the enemy teams movements (I also can't read the enemy teams movements very well either), what I can do to stop my team from being completely destroyed (when we are starting to lose), and just in general how I can find positions where my damage is most useful and where to go when there seems to be no where that I can help. 

 

There really hasn't been any guides to help people at my level to get any better. Is it really just that you are born with it? Is there anything I can do to improve this? Playing tier tens as suggested in the guide may help improve my skills over time, but it will take me a long time and by then my battle count will be very high, making it hard to improve my stats that suffered from playing tier tens all of the time. What is it that I can do to pass this plateau I've reached? How can I improve my ability to control not only my engagements, but also when and what engagements I get myself into? 


Edited by OronSonon, 10 February 2016 - 12:45 AM.

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LAPPELduvide #2 Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:21 AM

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Be a 100% damage farmer, do not think about your team, or ways to help them. Find a way to keep only yourself alive (assuming you're playing solo). Play conservative from the start, don't trade shots at the start, and let your team deal with fresh tanks. When you see someone injured or possibly isolated, pounce on them and make it quick. Learn to focus fire, if you see an enemy that is injured and a fresh enemy, focus on the damaged one first. Near the mid to end game, you can play a bit more aggressive, rushing, brawling, but don't take unnecessary risks. If you can let a teammate die in your place so be it. If you see an eager team mate that can take a few hits, let him, use him as bait and get opportunity shots. The main thing is don't be the one to get hit, don't risk yourself for the team, let the team risk itself for you. When you do that, and can keep that gun firing at all times, you'll do great. 

 

If you want, send me a platoon invite and I'll try and show you the way. Only in tier X tho. 


Edited by Zennosha, 10 February 2016 - 01:22 AM.

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OronSonon #3 Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:55 AM

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View PostZennosha, on 09 February 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

Be a 100% damage farmer, do not think about your team, or ways to help them. Find a way to keep only yourself alive (assuming you're playing solo). Play conservative from the start, don't trade shots at the start, and let your team deal with fresh tanks. When you see someone injured or possibly isolated, pounce on them and make it quick. Learn to focus fire, if you see an enemy that is injured and a fresh enemy, focus on the damaged one first. Near the mid to end game, you can play a bit more aggressive, rushing, brawling, but don't take unnecessary risks. If you can let a teammate die in your place so be it. If you see an eager team mate that can take a few hits, let him, use him as bait and get opportunity shots. The main thing is don't be the one to get hit, don't risk yourself for the team, let the team risk itself for you. When you do that, and can keep that gun firing at all times, you'll do great. 

 

If you want, send me a platoon invite and I'll try and show you the way. Only in tier X tho. 

 

Thanks for the tips and offer! I'll send u a toon on Friday when I can play. 

 

Now I know that in the beginning I should conserve hit points, but I always find that I'm unable to get into good positions that allow me to deal enough damage for a win. Often times I'll go to a spot where enemies have their guns pointing towards where I'm going to peak out, and I don't know where I can relocate to that won't take so long that my team is already falling or that will allow me to either be no longer in the enemy's attention or in a strong hull down position. Is it just experience and being able to read the enemy's movements that will solve my problem?


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LAPPELduvide #4 Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:14 AM

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View PostOronSonon, on 09 February 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

Thanks for the tips and offer! I'll send u a toon on Friday when I can play. 

 

Now I know that in the beginning I should conserve hit points, but I always find that I'm unable to get into good positions that allow me to deal enough damage for a win. Often times I'll go to a spot where enemies have their guns pointing towards where I'm going to peak out, and I don't know where I can relocate to that won't take so long that my team is already falling or that will allow me to either be no longer in the enemy's attention or in a strong hull down position. Is it just experience and being able to read the enemy's movements that will solve my problem?

Ah hull down, I miss that... Just by hearing that I can tell that you're probably too deep in enemy lines and get over run a fair share of times? I normally play nothing but armor less tanks so I rely on distractions, sacrifices, and camo as armor. I avoid getting hit at all costs, I have no problem letting a take a few hits, even die, if I know they'll make a good bunker. As for peeking, I normally tempt shots or reset my camo. I wouldn't worry so much about your team falling apart, if they're falling apart you won't be able to catch them. Take advantage of their deaths, enemies that are focusing your teammate aren't focusing you, get them while they are trying to kill your friendly. Always try to end up on some kind of high ground near the end of a battle. High ground regardless of the map is 100% essential to winning clutch games or fighting multiple enemies. Use terrain as your armor, keep them separated from you, isolate, and relocate, and most important of all DON'T BOUNCE a shot. Spam HEAT unnecessary and make sure every shot counts. Anyways, I'll help you out on Friday, and don't be afraid to PM me and I can talk a lot more in depth on different situations. 


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OronSonon #5 Posted 10 February 2016 - 02:48 AM

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View PostZennosha, on 09 February 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

Ah hull down, I miss that... Just by hearing that I can tell that you're probably too deep in enemy lines and get over run a fair share of times? I normally play nothing but armor less tanks so I rely on distractions, sacrifices, and camo as armor. I avoid getting hit at all costs, I have no problem letting a take a few hits, even die, if I know they'll make a good bunker. As for peeking, I normally tempt shots or reset my camo. I wouldn't worry so much about your team falling apart, if they're falling apart you won't be able to catch them. Take advantage of their deaths, enemies that are focusing your teammate aren't focusing you, get them while they are trying to kill your friendly. Always try to end up on some kind of high ground near the end of a battle. High ground regardless of the map is 100% essential to winning clutch games or fighting multiple enemies. Use terrain as your armor, keep them separated from you, isolate, and relocate, and most important of all DON'T BOUNCE a shot. Spam HEAT unnecessary and make sure every shot counts. Anyways, I'll help you out on Friday, and don't be afraid to PM me and I can talk a lot more in depth on different situations. 

 

Most of the times it's that I get myself into a bad position where I can't retreat from, but yeah, I guess I'm too aggressive. So it would be better in most cases in an E5 to wait until no ones paying attention to you and then quickly poking out and snapshotting rather than shooting immediately after reloading, doing more dmg but taking hits in return? And it would be better in a 62A to spend 30 seconds relocating to get a few good shots rather than trading two shots for one taken? 

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_______________________r #6 Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:42 PM

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View PostOronSonon, on 09 February 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

Most of the times it's that I get myself into a bad position where I can't retreat from, but yeah, I guess I'm too aggressive. So it would be better in most cases in an E5 to wait until no ones paying attention to you and then quickly poking out and snapshotting rather than shooting immediately after reloading, doing more dmg but taking hits in return? And it would be better in a 62A to spend 30 seconds relocating to get a few good shots rather than trading two shots for one taken? 

 

I had this same problem (aka too aggressive) and I had to toon with some really good players who yelled at me consistently to understand the simple fact that even when I thought I was not on the front line... I was still too far forward.  

 

That said, all advice has to be taken with a grain of salt in that game play is situational and personal.  I think it is fair to say that "rushing in" at any given point is a bad strategy regardless, so we can write that one as law.  But essentially camping and waiting (aka hoping) your team will do damage so you can just pot-off shots the whole match isn't realistic either.  Your best bet is to actually learn from your games and actively do research on your play style and map positioning.  When I say that "actually", I mean don't just play a game and be like "I was too far in" or "I responded too late", really think about where you were and the tactical pros and cons of that position and whether or not it was a good move or a bad move (or a good move that you got an unlucky break on).  Think about how you moved around the map, who died because you were in the wrong spot, who lived because you were in the right spot, and what worked and what didn't... and take real mental notes- remember them, and apply them next time.  You'll find that your win rate, your damage, and your contribution to carrying the team will noticeably increase.  

 

Really scrutinizing my own play style (and tooning with players who also scrutinized my play style... like Zennosha here...) brought my win rate up from 70% to 78.5% in a matter of about 2000 games.  

 

It's a worthwhile exercise.  


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mike82198 #7 Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:55 PM

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Absolutely everything Zennosha has written above is valuable to your specific situation but the following is relevant to all players in all circumstances:

View PostZennosha, on 09 February 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

I wouldn't worry so much about your team falling apart, if they're falling apart you won't be able to catch them. 

Don't try to save suicidal idiots. That's not teamwork. They're not working with you by YOLOing and if you save them - usually at great risk/cost to yourself - they'll likely get themselves uselessly killed some other way 15 seconds later. The only teammates I go out of my way (read: take risk) to save are ones I recognize by name as extremely competent players or tanks that will clearly be needed in the next minute (a reloading Death Star with a clear and easy shot at an enemy in a 3v3 might be worth taking a hit for). Most importantly - don't try to save: if you are likely to fail, don't bother. If you set about doing this you must succeed or it's not worth it. Being one tank down is a problem; being two tanks down is a disaster (especially with the current MM and in tier 10). 

 

I skimmed your write up and instead closely read your stats. You do ok damage but have a very low survival rate: you know how to shoot (which isn't to be scoffed at, all the tactical knowledge in the world won't help someone who can't do the basics) but you don't quite know when and where to shoot from. You're taking much more risk than you can handle. You get yourself into positions you can't effectively play yourself out of, brawl it out wherever you end up getting stuck (probably too close to the fire in all the right places), and eventually die. It's a very particular mindset and one can't quit it incrementally.

 

Reset your playstyle and truly experiment. In maps that aren't "race to key spot" in which you must partake (Mines in a medium, etc)    just stay back in the beginning. Let your team be the first line. Relocate around the brawling. Pretend you're a scumbag antisocial unicum who hates his team and is farming damage and kolobanovs from meatshields. Have whole teams rage at you. Have me wishing that your parents had never met. From there work your way closer - and by that I mean moving up to the next farthest hill in the next battle on the same map. Work on your awareness of your team and the enemy. Relax a bit. 

 

You're likely in the habit of trading shots out of boredom, itchy trigger finger and all that. Someone here once offered me a 1:3 ratio for damage - if you're gonna get hit for 400, what you're doing better yield 1200 in damage - if that's not the outcome: it's not worth it. A kill is sometimes worth trading at a worse ratio - but don't rush it. You could get that last shot for free. Someone else may trade for it. PRESERVE YOUR HP. 

 

TL;DR:

 

Dial it back and be patient. When you're not sure what to do, don't get twitchy. Don't rush. 



glass2707 #8 Posted 10 February 2016 - 08:46 PM

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30 games is too few to judge how you are doing.  The difference between 38% and 50% there is 4 games.  The difference between that and 60% is 7 games.  Though I looked at your stats.  They aren't bad.  It is tougher to carry games solo at tier X.  The reason is that the time it takes to kill tanks is longer.  Compare to tier 7 DPM/health to tier X and you will see health has jumped up more than DPM.  Back when I played almost exclusively solo I had a pretty good drop off in WR between tiers 9 & 10(5% or so).

 

The style you play can be largely tank and map dependent.  Though I tend to want to engage people from a good distance and with cover.  If they are in the open they are in trouble in that scenario.  I can roll out, shoot, and roll back.  Never giving them a good shot while I wear them down.  I disagree with some of the other posters on some minor points.  You want to draw at least some attention because if you don't often times your teammates will be dead quickly because they are that guy sitting in the open trying to hit the person moving in and out of cover.  Shots at me that have little chance of hitting are better than shots at my team that are almost sure things.  Though this can also get me killed in those games where my team decides it doesn't want to support me at the last second and stops short of the mill, hill or caves for example.



ChitFromChinola #9 Posted 10 February 2016 - 09:19 PM

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Wow, these are some great posts! Thanks for starting this thread -- that is some really good game strategy/mindset in the responses. Those posts are the most candid, clear, calculated, cold comments on game play that I've read since a Unicom friend told me, "Pretend that the game is you vs 7, and that other 6 guys on your team are just meat shields that occasionally deal damage." I didn't fully understand what he meant until now -- now I get it. Good stuff . . .



WhiskeyCyclone #10 Posted 10 February 2016 - 09:30 PM

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I can't add much to what's been said here, all great advice. Except always be on guard against tunnel vision, when you are zoomed in (sniper mode), zoom out frequently and look around- with the scroll bar, not with your turret. Try to keep an eye on the minimap often, and make sure all 7 enemy tanks are accounted for. You can be aware of 6 of them, but it only takes that one unseen TD to remove a big chunk of your hit points. So if you don't know where they are, don't go too far from support or cover. I have a tendency to play overly aggressive, but my game is a work in progress. Still learning. 

                                        

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razernaga2014 #11 Posted 10 February 2016 - 09:45 PM

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The number one bit of advice that I can offer has already been mentioned.  


Patience, patience, patience.  And in that respect, applied aggression.  Apply force when it is needed.  Don't squander it, as any move you make will have an effect on the game.  Don't ever use force, it will make winning nigh impossible.


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_Meta #12 Posted 10 February 2016 - 09:51 PM

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View PostZennosha, on 09 February 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

Be a 100% damage farmer, do not think about your team, or ways to help them. Find a way to keep only yourself alive (assuming you're playing solo). Play conservative from the start, don't trade shots at the start, and let your team deal with fresh tanks. When you see someone injured or possibly isolated, pounce on them and make it quick. Learn to focus fire, if you see an enemy that is injured and a fresh enemy, focus on the damaged one first. Near the mid to end game, you can play a bit more aggressive, rushing, brawling, but don't take unnecessary risks. If you can let a teammate die in your place so be it. If you see an eager team mate that can take a few hits, let him, use him as bait and get opportunity shots. The main thing is don't be the one to get hit, don't risk yourself for the team, let the team risk itself for you. When you do that, and can keep that gun firing at all times, you'll do great. 

 

If you want, send me a platoon invite and I'll try and show you the way. Only in tier X tho. 

This is one of the best pieces of advice I could give as well. I hit a wall not too long ago and had to have this beat back into my head. it's the biggest thing I struggle with. Don't trade shots early. How many games have you played, lost and looked back to realize if you had 600 HP more, what you could have done. take your shots when you can but not at the expense of you HP. Pick off the injured. You have to remove guns from battle quickly even if they cannot hurt you directly. This allows you to have more Fodder for the enemy to worry about. 


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OronSonon #13 Posted 10 February 2016 - 10:50 PM

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I come back and this thread is filled with helpful replies. Much thanks to all of you. 

 

A lot of helpful information that I learned from this. Not to rely on teammates and rather exploiting their mistakes, stopping to think over all of my individual plays in my battles, really learning to play passively, and playing from a distance with plenty of cover are just a few of the things I've learned. Thank you all for sharing this valuable information with me and others!


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HeavyMandarin #14 Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:30 PM

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View PostZennosha, on 10 February 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

Be a 100% damage farmer, do not think about your team, or ways to help them. Find a way to keep only yourself alive (assuming you're playing solo). Play conservative from the start, don't trade shots at the start, and let your team deal with fresh tanks. When you see someone injured or possibly isolated, pounce on them and make it quick. Learn to focus fire, if you see an enemy that is injured and a fresh enemy, focus on the damaged one first. Near the mid to end game, you can play a bit more aggressive, rushing, brawling, but don't take unnecessary risks. If you can let a teammate die in your place so be it. If you see an eager team mate that can take a few hits, let him, use him as bait and get opportunity shots. The main thing is don't be the one to get hit, don't risk yourself for the team, let the team risk itself for you. When you do that, and can keep that gun firing at all times, you'll do great. 

 

If you want, send me a platoon invite and I'll try and show you the way. Only in tier X tho. 

 

I've noticed that, I met a player in 2 consecutive battles who was a super unicorn. He did exactly what you just described. I however play a little differently, I'm almost always on the front lines, bouncing as many shots as I can while my team focuses them from a distance. It works well but not as well

Pandarin #15 Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:43 PM

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Wow, all the advice here is gold. Thanks to all the unicums willing to help us noobs.

LAPPELduvide #16 Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:46 PM

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View PostHeavyMandarin, on 10 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

 

I've noticed that, I met a player in 2 consecutive battles who was a super unicorn. He did exactly what you just described. I however play a little differently, I'm almost always on the front lines, bouncing as many shots as I can while my team focuses them from a distance. It works well but not as well

The thing about being front line is although you are somewhat valuable for spotting and as armor, armor doesn't last forever. If I see someone using their armor to hold a choke point I have a quick solution to negate it all, it's called gold ammo. Even if you think you're safe hull down, a quick bit of aiming and some gold rounds can still make you feel like a Leopard 1 in an E100s body. I would suggest playing a bit more conservative as I've said, and just minimize any hits at all that you could be taking. All it takes is just a split second of carelessness and you can be wiped off the map. Also I'd say to work on enemy awareness, players who are on the front lines should be more scared of what they don't see as opposed to what is in front of them. I can't tell you how many poor E100s or Jags have just completed focused on my team's front line only to be completely decimated by my 183. Overall, just be very careful when pushing front lines. 


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Gavidoc01 #17 Posted 12 February 2016 - 02:50 AM

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    10-12-2014

This is a fantastic topic. Kudos to you for posting it. I'll give some advice from a smurf that was in a similar situation to you. 

 

When I came to the forums I was at 55-56% Wr. Fumbled around for about 2k battles 4.5-6.5k and then really started to figure things out.  First and foremost I realized trying to reach purple wasn't the way to go. What I needed to do was focus on being a smurf. I went back to tier 1 and made the conscious decision that I had to do 100 battles in every tank. What did this entail at tier 1 you ask? Not to rely on my team....at all. Taught me to use others. As I moved back up I would apply what I learned to higher tiers. What did I find? As I redo every tier the wr for all reaches 60% and then surpasses that mark. Really knowing the tanks (all of them) has helped me know how to fight them. How to approach them and most importantly how my teams makeup will compare to the red team. Just as zennosha said, I have no qualms of using my team as protection. I have no issues with having the most damage but no kills. I have no qualms about kill stealing because if I take out that low hit point red it means one less gun. Why give him a chance to pump another shot into a teammate while he reloads if I have a clear shot?

 

the most important thing I learned? Not to get tunnel vision. Remembering where red was on the map before they disappeared and where green was when it happened and where green is moving to. Knowing how the particular tank will work in those types of situations also helps you know what they might do. How you ask? If you're familiar with the tank, how would you react? If the red reacts differently and survives,why? What did they see that you didn't? Learning to play better isn't just about your play but assessing how a red player played as well. 

 

The final bit of advice? If you see someone you recognize, Wolfpack with them. A perfect example for me was yesterday. I was in my Wolverine and what pops up? o7o7 in his leopard with a toonmate. I supported the meds. I didn't have any kills (they each had 3) but I had more damage iirc. I supported them. Took big hp while they unleashed the fury of their auto loaders and then had to reload. As they circled the Reds I kept pumping lead into them till they got the kills and we moved on. 

 

I also had a match and it was lokeen with a triarii toonmate.  Same scenario. It's not about the kills but about the damage and removing the low hp reds. I'd rather get the 400 hp full damage hit and let a teammate get the 100hp kill then the other way around. 


My Blitzstars

 

I'm a Platinum Card Wallet Warrior.

You’re welcome for supporting the game. 


Three60Mafia #18 Posted 12 February 2016 - 02:39 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 13080 battles
  • 5,171
  • [FLOOP]
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015
Your T-62a stats are quite good, to me it seems you just had bad luck at tier X with teams that couldn't tilt the scales. So you either have to try even harder or platoon.

 

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Colonel_Sanders1 #19 Posted 15 February 2016 - 02:25 PM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8735 battles
  • 360
  • Member since:
    07-27-2013

1. Gold rounds, spam the prem.  Most matches in my T54 I spend ~80k on HEAT.  I don't care, it gets me the wins.  

 

2. Use the team as cover! After your teammates get shot, pop out and hit the enemies.  Usually you are better than your team and deserve to live longer, most of these players are terrible 

 

3. I dunno if this is good advice but I used it to solo to 60.2%: Spot! Move forward and find enemies for your team to kill.  Get behind a hill or rock and when the enemies come to get you watch them be ripped apart.  Even with his strategy I get good dpg

 

4. Learn the best place on the map and direct the team there.  Usually if you say for everyone to go mill on Winter Malinovka, people will listen.  Having 7 guys on the same side is wayyy better than 3 or 4 on all flanks.

 

 

I don't know if these are great suggestions but it is what I do with good results...

 

 

 

 

Also the thread title, there is no such thing as a "generous unicum" unless you are talking about premium rounds and platoon invites to other unicums


Oh no

CalmSeasQuest #20 Posted 15 February 2016 - 02:38 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 61614 battles
  • 746
  • [DD]
  • Member since:
    07-01-2014

View PostColonel_Sanders1, on 15 February 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

...Also the thread title, there is no such thing as a "generous unicum" unless you are talking about premium rounds and platoon invites to other unicums

 

I couldn't disagree more. There are MANY great players that spend lots of time here in the forums providing support (i.e. the content in this very thread) and educational tooning. Look no further then GRIMs Adopt A Reaper thread. 


Edited by CalmSeasQuest, 15 February 2016 - 03:37 PM.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

 

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