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Why Vents are Trash


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Androyce #21 Posted 15 September 2014 - 12:13 AM

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View PostSkittlesOfSteel, on 14 September 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

it's still outclassed by other equipment

 

It's really not though. You need to define "class". I forgot traverse and turret traverse in my last post so that is now at least 9 things with a 2.5% boost, adding up to about 22.5% overall boost. In that sense, Vents outclass everything else by a large margin. It's certainly a generalist piece of equipment, and you are entitled to believe that specialist equipment is better, but that's an opinion. Nothing shown in this thread supports either the statement that vents are trash or the statement that any other piece of equipment outclasses them. Furthermore, vents are the only equipment that improves dispersion. They are a great help for accuracy in general, reducing the ring's starting size, final size, size while traversing or moving, and the speed at which the circle shrinks.


ErvinTarczay #22 Posted 15 September 2014 - 01:53 AM

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View PostSkittlesOfSteel, on 14 September 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

it's still outclassed by other equipment

Out classed by specific equipment. The Rammer, Gun Laying Drive, the track add on for Germans, Binocs and Coated  Optics, these things affect just one thing only, allowing you to specialize your tank.  That's why my TDs always get the Binocs and Camo and Rammer.  I need to see far, not be seen, and shoot fast. Vents help, too, but not as much as the specific equipment.   Vents go on my non-TD vehicles, if they can get them. 


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evil00genius #23 Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:00 AM

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While vents are not the huge buff that specific gear brings, remember that they are also some of the last things you can possibly add to make a difference.  Given two identical tanks, one with vents and one without, the one with vents will reload a tiny bit faster, will get on target just a millisecond earlier, and will deliver a shot that is a few centimeters more accurate.  That little difference can make all of the difference between finishing with a victory and watching as your tank smolders on the field.

 

Are they worth it?  Maybe not.  Are they useless trash?  Definitely not.  For me vents are "finishing" equipment.  After rammer there is usually a toss-up between one of the view buffs, the GLD, and the vents.  If the attribute I want to improve is one that I have already improved with a piece of equipment (e.g. rammer for faster reload), or which there is not a specific piece of equipment to improve then vents are a logical choice and my tank is better for it.



gffcom #24 Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:57 AM

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View PostAndroyce, on 14 September 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure you've given any evidence that they're trash. +2.5% to how many stats? It affects (afaik) ROF, accuracy, accuracy on the move or traversing, aim time, camo, view range, acceleration, and probably more. That's an overall boost of at least 7 X 2.5% or 17.5%, so it still seems better than pretty much every other piece of equipment. If you have specific stats you feel you need to boost, then fine go with other equipment. But a greater overall improvement to your tank does not seem to equate to trash.

 

View PostAndroyce, on 15 September 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

 

It's really not though. You need to define "class". I forgot traverse and turret traverse in my last post so that is now at least 9 things with a 2.5% boost, adding up to about 22.5% overall boost. In that sense, Vents outclass everything else by a large margin. It's certainly a generalist piece of equipment, and you are entitled to believe that specialist equipment is better, but that's an opinion. Nothing shown in this thread supports either the statement that vents are trash or the statement that any other piece of equipment outclasses them. Furthermore, vents are the only equipment that improves dispersion. They are a great help for accuracy in general, reducing the ring's starting size, final size, size while traversing or moving, and the speed at which the circle shrinks.

 

If this is correct, vents not only improve your tank 2.5% across the board (which seems quite significant), they are the ONLY way to improve some of those stats. And besides, specialized equipment works best with extremes. If you have a 6 second reload (T62A), is it better to shave .6 seconds off reload with a rammer or .15 seconds off reload and a get 2.5% bonus to everything else? Considering you don't often have the opportunity to just spam shots on cool down, a rammer isn't particularly "real world" useful, and vents are a much better choice. On the other hand, if you have a 17 second reload (JPE100), the 1.7 seconds faster reload from a rammer is quite noticeable and usable, and vents would be further down on the list.

                                                         

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Aivris #25 Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:32 AM

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View Postmdana, on 15 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

 

I did some further researching to this and unfortunately, according to the link provided above, there is more than meets the eye and things are more complex as expected. There are formulas that are used to calculate how equipment and crews factor in on the stats of a tank. Despite what it says in-game for Improved Ventilation, it won't necessarily improve your stats by 5%.  

 

 

Block Quote

 

Advanced example

You just bought your stock Marder II with a 75% crew and want to know how fast it reloads.

  • The garage stat shown for rate of fire is 26.25 rounds per minute. Since you want the actual reload time, you calculate 60s/26.25 = 2.286s reload time for every shot.
  •  
  • Responsible for that is the Loader. The Marder II does not have a separate Loader. Instead, the Gunner is loading the gun himself. What is his effective skill level?
  • His primary skill level is 75%. But we must not forget the Commander's bonusThe Commander's skill level is also 75%.
  •  
  • So we calculate 75% (Loader) + 75% (Commander) * 0.1 (in a case like this where Commander and crew have the same skill level you can also simply calculate 75% * 1.1) and obtain the effective skill level of our Loader at 82.5%.
  •  
  • Reload time is a degressive stat. Thus we calculate 2.286s * 0.875 / (0.00375 * 82.5 + 0.5). We obtain as a result our effective (rounded) reload time of 2.47s.
  •  
  • We can also calculate rate of fire. Since that is progressive we go 26.25 / 0.875 * (0.00375 * 82.5 + 0.5), i.e. our stock Marder II has a (rounded) rate of fire of 24.28 with a 75% crew.

 

I found these calculations and the explanation of the system to be quite complex due to the many things that impact the actual statistics of a tank. The above example is from a section in the Wiki but I found it quite confusing. :huh:

 



Val_Darrant #26 Posted 15 September 2014 - 12:06 PM

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This is what I surmised. The vents aren't the best but they do help.  Any combat oriented game its an incremental game of inches.  The complexity is a function of realism and the necessary levers developers need to keep the game 'balanced'.

 

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BearHawkMan #27 Posted 16 September 2014 - 11:47 PM

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No. You are so wrong. Do you not get the point of vents? Yes, it may be a small buff, but it is an all around buff. It buffs your ammo rack resistance, fire resis, and many other things while only taking up 1 slot. That is the whole point. Also, 0.2 seconds isn't that big of a deal. It is better than other equip just because of its all around use, while only buffing your fire resis by 50% is extremely situational.

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Meows_really_heckin #28 Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:00 AM

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Crew=/=ammo rack resistance

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jtemple507 #29 Posted 26 September 2014 - 12:22 PM

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I always thought vents were for % of crew experience. I never play any tank until it has 75% crew if I had 50% to start (I grind silver on other tanks) and then I play tanks so often after that that it gets to 100% crew in less than an hour.

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CB_Viper #30 Posted 26 September 2014 - 05:18 PM

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View PostSkittlesOfSteel, on 14 September 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Why vents are trash

Vents are a very misleading piece of equipment and the majority believe that it improves all tank characteristics by 5% but this is not the case. The boost itself is only 2.5 because Wg sucks at explaining things.

Proof:...

 

It specifically says it boosts your crew by 5%. Your crew being 5% better doesn't translate to your loading time being 5% faster. It means you have a maximum 105% crew instead of 100%, which means you're 5% better at spotting, driving, loading, aiming, repairing, and etc.

 

Yes a specialized piece of equipment will help a specific flaw in your tank more - the rammer, for example, I consider a necessity on all tanks that can mount one. Just because there is other equipment that makes specific attributes better doesn't mean that another piece of equipment is garbage though. Is cammo netting garbage because it doesn't help you spot? Are binocs garbage because they don't help you aim? Now, if you had said the suspension was garbage I'd have believed you - I never equip that as I'd rather have A) Faster reload, B) 5% better crew, and C) Better aim or D) Better repair time. That's just me, because I've got an 80%+ hit rate so better aim time isn't always a major concern. You might like cammo netting better than crew, that's your deal.

 

Now, as to whether it's misleading or not - many people seem to have an incorrect idea as to what they do, so clearly Vents aren't well explained. I don't think the information that is there is wrong, but seeing a side-by-side stat boost 'what-if' preview before applying any piece of equipment would solve that.


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_ENO_ #31 Posted 26 September 2014 - 09:45 PM

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Uh... if vents don't help your loading speed above and beyond your rammer then who, or more precisely what exactly is loading my gun? And why do I have a loader on my crew? Does he not enjoy a cool breeze? Would he not rather breathe clean, fresh air? And what does he do with that 5% boost to the crew functions? Complain about the fact he has nothing to do at faster rate? 

 

I'm so confused. 



Meows_really_heckin #32 Posted 26 September 2014 - 10:38 PM

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View PostCB_Viper, on 26 September 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

 

It specifically says it boosts your crew by 5%. Your crew being 5% better doesn't translate to your loading time being 5% faster. It means you have a maximum 105% crew instead of 100%, which means you're 5% better at spotting, driving, loading, aiming, repairing, and etc.

 

Yes a specialized piece of equipment will help a specific flaw in your tank more - the rammer, for example, I consider a necessity on all tanks that can mount one. Just because there is other equipment that makes specific attributes better doesn't mean that another piece of equipment is garbage though. Is cammo netting garbage because it doesn't help you spot? Are binocs garbage because they don't help you aim? Now, if you had said the suspension was garbage I'd have believed you - I never equip that as I'd rather have A) Faster reload, B) 5% better crew, and C) Better aim or D) Better repair time. That's just me, because I've got an 80%+ hit rate so better aim time isn't always a major concern. You might like cammo netting better than crew, that's your deal.

 

Now, as to whether it's misleading or not - many people seem to have an incorrect idea as to what they do, so clearly Vents aren't well explained. I don't think the information that is there is wrong, but seeing a side-by-side stat boost 'what-if' preview before applying any piece of equipment would solve that.

 

Well let me ask you this then why would vents boost give different boost to a different stat. Like why would it boost your 400 view range to 600 (Iknow this is extreme but it's to make a point) that's a fifty% boost and then give a 2.2 boost to loading speed? I know the example is extreme but the boost is across the board, why would the boost be different to other stats? Answer that and we can continue. 

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CB_Viper #33 Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:12 PM

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View PostSkittlesOfSteel, on 26 September 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

 

Well let me ask you this then why would vents boost give different boost to a different stat. Like why would it boost your 400 view range to 600 (Iknow this is extreme but it's to make a point) that's a fifty% boost and then give a 2.2 boost to loading speed? I know the example is extreme but the boost is across the board, why would the boost be different to other stats? Answer that and we can continue. 

 

Because different skills rely more or less heavily on crew capabilities? So view range is almost entirely a crew skill, while loading time is only crew skill to a certain extent and then is limited by equipment speed. Tank speed and turning don't get that much better as crew skill goes up, because the tank only goes so fast at full throttle. Aiming speed is probably another skill that is based more on crew than equipment.

 

I don't know the full algorithm WG uses for determining crew effect on every stat, but I do know it isn't "5% better crew = 5% improvement to X stat." The formula probably either isn't linear or doesn't rely fully on crew for that stat and that's why you're not getting results like you'd expect. An better way to check would be taking a tank at every 5% crew up from 50% to 105% (with vents) and seeing what happens to the stats. Then do that again on another few tanks (say 10) to get a reasonable sample size.


Edited by CB_Viper, 02 October 2014 - 11:12 PM.

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Meows_really_heckin #34 Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:43 PM

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No just no


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