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Why +2/-2 is terrible


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conrad07277 #41 Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:03 AM

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I'm fairly new to blitz.and all I here is W/R.and D/D ratios. So I try to play smart..but man I can't compete with a tank 2 tiers higher. And also MM is so one sided.huge wins or losses just doesn't make this game fun.. :(



tankboss41 #42 Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:16 AM

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Most unicums like the -2+2 better cuz they like to bully the lower tier and kill them off first then they go after higher tiers, its been a cycle since i started playing. Why do they choose -2+2 over -1+1? Simple more complainers...

 

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A7X0 #43 Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:23 AM

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View Posttankboss41, on 17 March 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Most unicums like the -2+2 better cuz they like to bully the lower tier and kill them off first then they go after higher tiers, its been a cycle since i started playing. Why do they choose -2+2 over -1+1? Simple more complainers...

 

Actually it's quite the opposite. The real unicums target the largest dangers first, then they'll clean the lower tiers up if needed. If they're wasting their time farming off a Panther II instead of focusing down that Object 268 who's about to kill their entire team, then the correct term for them is idiot, not unicum.

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tankboss41 #44 Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:26 AM

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View PostA7X0, on 17 March 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

 

Actually it's quite the opposite. The real unicums target the largest dangers first, then they'll clean the lower tiers up if needed. If they're wasting their time farming off a Panther II instead of focusing down that Object 268 who's about to kill their entire team, then the correct term for them is idiot, not unicum.

 

dont underestimate the little guys , they can be as OP as the bigger dudes.

 

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4sfield #45 Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:56 AM

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   Here's my take.

 

  +1/-1 spotlights the weak player base. Playing alone at any tier made it harder to carry. As somebody said in no certain words, you can't make up for that much stupid. I found myself ignoring certain vehicles altogether unless I tooned up, saw others doing the same. OP platoons became the norm and with a good partner it wasn't hard to seal club the guts out of Tiers 5-8. In order to counter, the mouthbreathers all grabbed their derps, heavied up and camped. The only entertaining games were the games with good players on both sides, at this point the game became stale.

 

  A 2 tier spread offers the higher tierd player the opportunity to be more aggressive. Not having to worry so much about 7 big guns pointing at you should give a player more confidence. It also makes it easier to win playing solo. These things should help a player who is learning to develop a skill set, learn tank roles, etc. and still provide entertaining game play for those who already have. 

 

  Considering what we went through the past 2 months, I can't see why anybody would still want +1/-1.


 

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mehliveat #46 Posted 17 March 2016 - 09:13 AM

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View Posttankboss41, on 17 March 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Most unicums like the -2+2 better cuz they like to bully the lower tier and kill them off first then they go after higher tiers, its been a cycle since i started playing. Why do they choose -2+2 over -1+1? Simple more complainers...

 

Why are the bottom tiers in the front lines to be targeted by red top tiers in the first place?

 

If you present yourself, obviously people will target you first.  One less gun is one less gun.

 

People seem to be focus on how top tier bully bottom tier, but rarely assign any responsibility to the bottom tier.  

 

Playing bottom tier is a challenge, you need to be situationally aware and be adaptive, you let the green top tiers lead the charge and take the hits.  Then you look for opportunities and gaps to attack.

 

In my view, the problem isn't the top tiers bullying the bottom.  Its the bottom tier's failure to adapt to the game.  I am far from the best player, but my most played tier is still 6, and I simply don't see the issue in being 6 facing 8s.



Player_39363936 #47 Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:25 AM

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It's pretty clear the majority like +1/-1 better.  It makes the game more fair at all tiers.   I doubt the people that prefer +2/-2 are winning any converts to their side by insulting and belittling the people that disagree with them.

Darth_Gerbil #48 Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:39 AM

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View PostPsychopathy, on 17 March 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

For me it doesn't matter +2/-2 or +1/-1 or even +0/-0 BUT without a teamwork you will get a same junk result. This is a teamwork game more than 1 man show.

 

+1

krietenstein34 #49 Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:59 AM

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I have yet to figure out why all the good players want me on their team (tier 10 match) riding dirty in a stock T-44 with 75 Crew.
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Hyper_piper #50 Posted 17 March 2016 - 12:24 PM

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I feel -2/+2 MM offers a better learning experience.  If you are interested in that.  It makes you have to adjust your approach to the game differently in the same tank depending on going in as low/same/or high tier.

In the long run it better prepares you for climbing tiers.  You get an earlier look at the higher tier tanks and see their play style.


 

 

 


bloodjackal #51 Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:11 PM

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Mostly arguments on why the arguments the OP responded to where never used (which they have been repeatedly) and simple fallacies that, while none of you seem to have even the most basic knowledge of, you will still accuse that your opponent is using. More of the same lame arguments to dance around any criticism of your position. 

 

To be clear, I'm a huge advocate for -\+1. Not because i find -\+ 2 difficult or because i can't play bottom tier (though i used to). But because it is nearly impossible to learn how to play when you are so frequintly bottom tier, my understanding of the game massively jumped during the last two months, compared to the slow drag that was -/+2. And more importantly i don't like being on either side of an engagement between a tier six and eight. One has you in a near impossible struggle and the other is far too easy and boring. 


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pasdxd #52 Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:14 PM

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I think I stand with Ksftwe with this. I don't want to trade the mid tiers for tier X or vice versa.

 

 

However, it seems inevitable some tier(s) must take the hit. I don't think a compromise will be easy to reach. 


Edited by pasdxd, 17 March 2016 - 01:15 PM.

 


VikkoTheTusken #53 Posted 17 March 2016 - 01:15 PM

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I'm sorry, OP. I love the 2/2 MM. When I'm at a lower tier in say...the Luchs and I'm bottom tier - The enemy team looks like lunch. Sure, I don't win them all but when you can run circles around a lone KV-1S and farm xp and damage it's a great game.

 

Its not always fun, I know. Say...an RU-251 in a tier X match on Himmelsdorf. Its just a roll of the dice.


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CommandoTank7 #54 Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:16 PM

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View Posttankboss41, on 17 March 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

Most unicums like the -2+2 better cuz they like to bully the lower tier and kill them off first then they go after higher tiers, its been a cycle since i started playing. Why do they choose -2+2 over -1+1? Simple more complainers...

 

It is absolutely incredible how ignorant and frankly stubborn so many of you are. FOR THE LAST TIME THIS IS NOT THE REASON. I don't go in a tier 10 match aiming to bully tier 8s NO! We did not like the +1/-1 mm at tier 9/10 because instead of 3-4 tier x guns against you there were 6-7. This is completely unbalanced and it meant that whatever the hell you did you ran the risk of getting shot in the face by a ton of big guns. Anything mildly interesting meant BOOM A TON OF BIG GUNS TO THE FACE.  This is the reason why we like +2/-2 a balance of tier 10,9,8 means more even, balanced, and dynamic gameplay. Not a 7-0 every damn game either way which is what happened with +1/-1. Oh and as another said, if you aim at taking out lower tiers first you have no idea what you are doing. You take out the higher tiers first because they area bigger threat. 

 

 


_JenniferAniston #55 Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:28 PM

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View Postkrietenstein34, on 17 March 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I have yet to figure out why all the good players want me on their team (tier 10 match) riding dirty in a stock T-44 with 75 Crew.

 

..... Because we don't want you riding dirty in an all tier x march in your maxed out T62. 


krietenstein34 #56 Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:56 PM

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AView Postkrietenstein34, on 17 March 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

I have yet to figure out why all the good players want me on their team (tier 10 match) riding dirty in a stock T-44 with 75 Crew.

 

B_JenniferAniston, on 17 March 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

 

..... Because we don't want you riding dirty in an all tier x march in your maxed out T62. 

 

 

what does B have to do with A ???   I don't understand ??   Elaborate


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CommandoTank7 #57 Posted 17 March 2016 - 04:06 PM

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View Postkrietenstein34, on 17 March 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

I have yet to figure out why all the good players want me on their team (tier 10 match) riding dirty in a stock T-44 with 75 Crew.

 

Simple, its so there are not 14 tier X guns in the game. Allowing us to carry and be able to do maneuvers and big damage without getting hit in the face by 7 tier x guns as soon as we move an inch. I really have no idea how long it will take for you people to understand that THIS is the reason we like +2/-2

Edited by CommandoTank7, 17 March 2016 - 04:07 PM.

 

 


Mike_Reed #58 Posted 17 March 2016 - 04:19 PM

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this was the best, well reasoned, logical post about this topic I've read.  I will be called bias because I support the +1/-1, but at least we have given reason.

View Post_JenniferAniston, on 17 March 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

 

the thing is you just liked 1/1 because your below average win rates in tier 9/10 crept up slightly to the player base average in those 2 months. 1/1 created a high tier coin toss and eventually would bring the bottom up and the top down percentages.

 

 

THis si a typical, "I have no real facts and just attack your record" argument.  Sad attempt to show any sign of logical thought.  Everything I read points to the fact that +2/-2 people are just crying because they can't club low tiers and hate that they had to play in even matched games.  No more ignoring the little guys.  Everyone was a threat.  OMG  You had to play a real game.

 

So go ahead.  Attack my record now. Talk about my lack of tier 10 experience, but see my majority of middle level experience.  That was fun during +1/-1, but now sucks again.  Shoting that E75 6 times as it sits there and the owner doesn't even shot back and gets on chat, laughing at you.  About how you suck.  And even using APCR, can't penetrate any armor.  NO FUN>

World of Tanks Blitz will hold more players, and in turn make more money with +1/-1.  Which is the goal of any company. IF they are smart, the +1/-1 will return.



Knight44 #59 Posted 17 March 2016 - 04:48 PM

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Wargaming could solve this whole argument by adding an option in the game settings to let players choose which MM option they prefer. If, as asserted here, the great majority of Blitz players prefer +2/-2, then very few players would opt for +1/-1 matchmaking. Everyone happy.

MSixteen #60 Posted 17 March 2016 - 04:49 PM

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View Posttankboss41, on 17 March 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

Most unicums like the -2+2 better cuz they like to bully the lower tier and kill them off first then they go after higher tiers, its been a cycle since i started playing. Why do they choose -2+2 over -1+1? Simple more complainers...

What A7X0 said here: vvv

View PostA7X0, on 17 March 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

 

Actually it's quite the opposite. The real unicums target the largest dangers first, then they'll clean the lower tiers up if needed. If they're wasting their time farming off a Panther II instead of focusing down that Object 268 who's about to kill their entire team, then the correct term for them is idiot, not unicum.

 

View Posttankboss41, on 17 March 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

 

dont underestimate the little guys , they can be as OP as the bigger dudes.

THAT'S what we've been trying to say! The reason we are able to ignore the T8s while we are killing the T10s, is because they insist on going after us from the front, which is not how you're supposed to play. A T8 played right, putting shots into my side is a bigger threat to myself, therefore my team winning, than a 268 that is slowly whittling down my team.

 

You just confirmed, as a +1/-1 proponent, what we've been trying to get across all along. 


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