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Melissa_Durat #221 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:15 PM

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View Postwhitham_wannabe, on 09 July 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

Does this mean I don't need to bother grinding the Challenger any more?

 

They are like taller borsigs now. 2 shots you are out. Is up to you now.

 

Personally I prefer to play smaller TDs profile rather tan the Brits with HUGE cupolas.



The_Flop #222 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:22 PM

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Ouch! Surprised it came so quick, usually they wait 2 updates before they give a nerf like that to a new tank. Yes it was op but that nerf is way overboard, I'm not sure it's going to be usable any more.

 

Personally, I think those new boosters really messed things up. They were way too op, way unbalanced, and are going to make balancing this line almost impossible. I'm surprised it hasn't come up more and really, really hope we don't see more nations get these specialized boosters.



RonaldusMaximus_ #223 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:27 PM

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View PostThe_Flop, on 09 July 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Ouch! Surprised it came so quick, usually they wait 2 updates before they give a nerf like that to a new tank. Yes it was op but that nerf is way overboard, I'm not sure it's going to be usable any more.

 

Personally, I think those new boosters really messed things up. They were way too op, way unbalanced, and are going to make balancing this line almost impossible. I'm surprised it hasn't come up more and really, really hope we don't see more nations get these specialized boosters.

 

I agree, they should have just nerfed the reload and removed the boosters. WG should make people still want to play the tanks for their uniqueness, not try to make every tank equally miserable... 


_Cletus, on 02 July 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

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Posit1ve_ #224 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:36 PM

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Honestly, the Charioteer nerf was definitely justified.

 

We all knew that the Charioteer needed to be nerfed, but even still, I don't know how I would nerf the Charioteer without making it either too bland, or leaving it too overpowered. 

 

The problem with Charioteer is that the tank is fundamentally bland. There's no armor, and the mobility is mediocre. The only way the tank can differentiate itself is with its gun. However, the gun isn't particularly large, and it's not an autoloader, so the only category left where it can shine is just its DPM. 

 

Since the tank lives and dies by its DPM, there's just no way to balance it well. If you give it too much DPM like it has now, it's busted. If you take away its DPM, the tank is supremely mediocre in every other way. 

 

In order to balance it, the tank would have to be fundamentally changed in some way, but I just don't know how it should be redefined


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cheesehead247365 #225 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:39 PM

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I don't feel bad for any charioteer owners.  that thing is broken and you knew a nerf was coming.  

vvk2 #226 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:50 PM

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View PostPosit1ve_, on 09 July 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

Honestly, the Charioteer nerf was definitely justified.

 

We all knew that the Charioteer needed to be nerfed, but even still, I don't know how I would nerf the Charioteer without making it either too bland, or leaving it too overpowered. 

 

The problem with Charioteer is that the tank is fundamentally bland. There's no armor, and the mobility is mediocre. The only way the tank can differentiate itself is with its gun. However, the gun isn't particularly large, and it's not an autoloader, so the only category left where it can shine is just its DPM. 

 

Since the tank lives and dies by its DPM, there's just no way to balance it well. If you give it too much DPM like it has now, it's busted. If you take away its DPM, the tank is supremely mediocre in every other way. 

 

In order to balance it, the tank would have to be fundamentally changed in some way, but I just don't know how it should be redefined


agreed. This one was a hard one. So WG gave up both options: a stupid OP and now a stupid meh. 



4sfield #227 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:53 PM

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  I don’t own one and never bothered to grind the new line because I knew they’d neuter it. 

 

  It’s become apparent that balance is something WG is not interested in and I agree they introduce OP as a way to get people to spend . They also keep just enough of it around to keep people interested and playing. This tank was annoying to deal with but only in terms of reload and gun handling for me. I didn’t care about the alpha because it is a TD after all. What they have planned for it is typical and overdone with the alpha nerfs, they did the same thing to all of the mediums a long time ago. 

 

  I for one do not believe WG is so stupid that they didn’t know this tank was too strong when it was introduced just like I don’t believe they are oblivious to the fact that the heavies are too strong, They are in the business of manipulating guns into spending and that means ripping us off. The hard part to deal with is that they play dumb about everything and guys actually believe them. 

 

  It can’t be that hard to balance a vehicle, go back to the “What part of the Charioteer would you nerf” thread and you’ll see where lots of players fixed it without neutering it. The same thing goes for every tank in the game but the point is WG wants balance to be off so they can exploit what’s being played. It’s been this way since 3.8, we’ve all spent money and time on tanks that have been nerfed into oblivion. They’re stealing from all of us and they don’t care, it’s about setting us up on the next line or premium vehicle. 

 

  I’m sick of their [edited], their a bunch of Indian givers and racketeers.

 

  


 

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godzilla5599_warrior #228 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:58 PM

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View Post4sfield, on 09 July 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

  I don’t own one and never bothered to grind the new line because I knew they’d neuter it. 

 

  It’s become apparent that balance is something WG is not interested in and I agree they introduce OP as a way to get people to spend . They also keep just enough of it around to keep people interested and playing. This tank was annoying to deal with but only in terms of reload and gun handling for me. I didn’t care about the alpha because it is a TD after all. What they have planned for it is typical and overdone with the alpha nerfs, they did the same thing to all of the mediums a long time ago. 

 

  I for one do not believe WG is so stupid that they didn’t know this tank was too strong when it was introduced just like I don’t believe they are oblivious to the fact that the heavies are too strong, They are in the business of manipulating guns into spending and that means ripping us off. The hard part to deal with is that they play dumb about everything and guys actually believe them. 

 

  It can’t be that hard to balance a vehicle, go back to the “What part of the Charioteer would you nerf” thread and you’ll see where lots of players fixed it without neutering it. The same thing goes for every tank in the game but the point is WG wants balance to be off so they can exploit what’s being played. It’s been this way since 3.8, we’ve all spent money and time on tanks that have been nerfed into oblivion. They’re stealing from all of us and they don’t care, it’s about setting us up on the next line or premium vehicle. 

 

  I’m sick of their [edited], their a bunch of Indian givers and racketeers.

 

  

 

I've mentioned this before but.....

 

Just accept it's better to spend money,play premium tanks and forget the tech tree exists because for the most part that side of it is bork f'ed all to hell,most of the premiums actually work fairly well (there's been a few stinkers) and just have as much fun as you can :coin:



Destroy0 #229 Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:17 PM

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Wonderful, they just beat the only tier 8 tech tree tank that was actually interesting and competitive in that trash meta.

I can't wait to return to matches where 8/14 tanks are some kind of IS and whichever team gets more wz120s is garunteed to win.

Everbody is screaming from the rooftops that the tank is op, but it was only op in the hands of good players.

Now it has absolutely nothing going for it in the World of Wallet Noob tank meta that will never be nerfed and only increasing.

Get ready everybody, because at this point you can expect that no new tech tree tank in tier 8 will actually be competitive.

It takes op tanks to fight op tanks, and in wargamings eyes those who shell out $40 and are braindead enough to play the same no skill formula over and over again will always rule supreme.

Edited by Destroy0, 09 July 2019 - 03:33 PM.


_Cletus #230 Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:19 PM

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Well yeah, I've been playing it a lot because I knew a nerf was coming.  Why not grind it while it's OP?  However all it needed was a slight DPM nerf.  As mentioned above, the only good thing about the tank was it's gun, and once that's nerfed into mediocrity there is nothing to make someone want to play that tank over any other.  Now it does nothing well.  I remember when the Tiger P was buffed and nerfed, and it was left as a good tank.  Not OP, but definitely something that has a place on the battlefield.  The cherry won't even have a place after this.

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boppinbobby #231 Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:46 PM

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And the Challenger which is just about the polar opposite is still er, challenging to play well. Its at least as bad as the Charioteer was good. 

Sigh.

At least the 70% camo or whatever it is, is still intact. 


Edited by boppinbobby, 09 July 2019 - 03:48 PM.

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Gavidoc01 #232 Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:52 PM

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Reload nerf justified. Pen nerf, not justified considering the same gun is two tiers higher.

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Gavidoc01 #233 Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:59 PM

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View Postmichaeltsoon, on 09 July 2019 - 09:07 AM, said:

From the 6.1 news article:

 

-Reload increased from 7.19 to 9.59 s

-Aim time increased from 4 to 4.5 s

-Penetration of the premium HESH decreased from 210 to 175 mm

-Penetration of the cheap HESH decreased from 105 to 90 mm

 

And just like that, one of the most overpowered tanks at tier 8 is in line to becoming just another worthless vanilla tank nobody will bother playing. Congratulations Wargaming, so much for dynamic gameplay.

 

That's why I didn't grind it. At this point, the WG formula is becoming blatantly obvious:


-->Release overpowered tech tree tanks

-->Milk free xp and credits out of players who want it ASAP so they can pad their stats easily

-->The matchmaker gets overrun with these new vehicles. Balance affected negatively.

-->Playerbase complains about how broken these new tanks are, and demand a nerf ASAP

-->WG holds off until every player willing to quickly grind the line has done so. Then, they nerf them to the point of irrelevancy.

-->Rinse, repeat.

 

As for the Charioteer itself, in my opinion it warranted the reload nerf (and perhaps the aim time too) but not the HESH penetration, since that's what made it unique in the first place. It's fine for a TD to have 440 alpha, what's not OK is having nearly 3.7k DPM with the ability to burn down any opponent in under half a minute.

 

This has happened many, many times now. Second German TD line; French autoloaders; American lights; etc.

 

Discuss.

 

Can't complain for what you asked for and NOW add caveats to your nerf requirements.

 

Highlights from your "Please Nerf the Charioteer - A Logical Argument" topic

 

Block Quote

The absurdly high DPM. The Charioteer can dish out 440-alpha shells every 6.6 seconds, 

In fact, the HESH penetration exceeds that of many same-tier AP rounds, so they can be easily spammed and require very little skill. 

HE-resistant armor. 

Mobility. This one should be fairly self-explanatory. 

Ability to manufacture shots. I would have less of a problem with this tank if its accuracy wasn't so high, and its soft stats so brilliant. 

 

To sum up, I firmly believe that the Charioteer is breaking the meta, and needs to be nerfed. 

 

So in your first topic you complain about 5 different aspects of the tank, they nerf 2 of them and now you are saying it really only needed a DPM nerf? 


Come on dude. 

 


Edited by Gavidoc01, 09 July 2019 - 03:59 PM.

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Destroy0 #234 Posted 09 July 2019 - 04:07 PM

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It should have just been a rate of fire nerf. The pen and accuracy nerf was completely uncalled for.

e___18989 #235 Posted 09 July 2019 - 04:09 PM

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I think the nerf is worth a try. 175 HESH pen is still awesome in tier 8 guys. That is equal to the AP pen of many meds in the tier! HESH is supposed to be for the sides and rear of tanks and the sides of turrets. Not to spam at the upper front plate of enemy tanks. To me, 175 HESH is still very high. This is tier 8 and the average side armor of a tank is something like 80. I think 175 pen is still plenty guys. 

 

It is now what it always should have been, a sniper. 

 

Keep in mind, this tank is radically different than all other tier 8's. Lets give WG a few updates to try to find its proper place. This massive nerf is not perfection, but its progress - and progress is enough. They need more time and hard data with the nerfed 6.1 Charioteer. This update will tell them alot about the tank and help them to discover its proper place in the tier. Thanks WG!


Edited by e___18989, 09 July 2019 - 04:10 PM.

 

 

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e___18989 #236 Posted 09 July 2019 - 04:12 PM

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*Warning - Copied my post from other Charioteer nerf thread* 

 

 

I think the nerf is worth a try. 175 HESH pen is still awesome in tier 8 guys. That is equal to the AP pen of many meds in the tier! HESH is supposed to be for the sides and rear of tanks and the sides of turrets. Not to spam at the upper front plate of enemy tanks. To me, 175 HESH is still very high. This is tier 8 and the average side armor of a tank is something like 80. I think 175 pen is still plenty guys. 

 

It is now what it always should have been, a sniper. 

 

Keep in mind, this tank is radically different than all other tier 8's. Lets give WG a few updates to try to find its proper place. This massive nerf is not perfection, but its progress - and progress is enough. They need more time and hard data with the nerfed 6.1 Charioteer. This update will tell them alot about the tank and help them to discover its proper place in the tier. Thanks WG!


 

 

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godzilla5599_warrior #237 Posted 09 July 2019 - 04:21 PM

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View Poste___18989, on 09 July 2019 - 04:12 PM, said:

*Warning - Copied my post from other Charioteer nerf thread* 

 

 

I think the nerf is worth a try. 175 HESH pen is still awesome in tier 8 guys. That is equal to the AP pen of many meds in the tier! HESH is supposed to be for the sides and rear of tanks and the sides of turrets. Not to spam at the upper front plate of enemy tanks. To me, 175 HESH is still very high. This is tier 8 and the average side armor of a tank is something like 80. I think 175 pen is still plenty guys. 

 

It is now what it always should have been, a sniper. 

 

Keep in mind, this tank is radically different than all other tier 8's. Lets give WG a few updates to try to find its proper place. This massive nerf is not perfection, but its progress - and progress is enough. They need more time and hard data with the nerfed 6.1 Charioteer. This update will tell them alot about the tank and help them to discover its proper place in the tier. Thanks WG!

 

I take it you have no gag reflex? :sceptic:



e___18989 #238 Posted 09 July 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View Postgodzilla5599_warrior, on 09 July 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

 

I take it you have no gag reflex? :sceptic:


It needed nerfed, they nerfed it. When they get more data, they will adjust it again in the future if needed. That’s kinda how this game works. 


 

 

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