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definition defined glossary what is explained terms phrases charioteer nerf

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Incogitable #201 Posted 09 July 2019 - 11:53 AM

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From the in game notification on the update:

 

Reload increased from 7.19 to 9.59 s

Aim time increased from 4 to 4.5 s

Penetration of the premium HESH decreased from 210 to 175 mm

Penetration of the cheap HESH decreased from 105 to 90 mm


Edited by Incogitable, 09 July 2019 - 11:54 AM.


XXX_Corps #202 Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:04 PM

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Well enjoy it for the next few hours. That hesh nerf is a killer. Just made it to the Conway this past weekend, whew!

RonaldusMaximus_ #203 Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:08 PM

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I think the nerf is very fair, That reload time was insane.

View Post _Cletus, on 02 July 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

Step 1: Don't open your mouth in an alley.

 


_Cletus #204 Posted 09 July 2019 - 12:27 PM

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As soon as that nerf hits I will probably never play it again.  It needed the nerf, granted, but it will no longer be any fun.

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cheasesteak #205 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:00 PM

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View Post_Cletus, on 09 July 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

As soon as that nerf hits I will probably never play it again.  It needed the nerf, granted, but it will no longer be any fun.


About time on the nerf.  The charioteer may not be as fun, but the game will be more fun for everyone else who isn't playing a broken OP tank.  


Edited by cheasesteak, 09 July 2019 - 01:01 PM.

 

 

... and Epstein didn’t kill himself


Blartch #206 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:04 PM

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It might've needed something.  It didn't need this.

 

So it goes from a base 2920/3671 AP/HESH DPM to 2190/2752 AP/HESH DPM, with worse aim time, while retaining the complete lack of armor, poor turret and hull traverse.  Teams will still continue to not spot, green ISholes will jostle you out of sniper spots, mystically HESH-resistant T49's will be magically drawn to you.

 

Quick comparisons:

AP DPM is roughly in class with lower-end tier 8 mediums and most tier 8 heavies; basement-level for tier 8 TDs.

Roughly same reload time as Type 59, T-44, T-54 mod1; these all have turret armor, slightly worse alpha, worse pen, far better close-fighting ability

About 15-20% worse DPM than the Borsig, the other glass hidey-hider TD of tier 8; better accuracy and mobility

Needs to pen every HESH shot to get close to the AP DPM of the JP2 or JagdTiger 8.8(105)

Worse DPM than the 122mm-carrying SU101; far worse than the 100mm version

IS#: will no longer be HESHable from the front, so can just drive straight at you and happily 2-HE-shot you to oblivion (which they will, because ISholes often fire HE at everything)

WZ120GTFO: roughly same reload, camo, mobility; 400 alpha, better penetration, better accuracy, stupid armor
 

WG Dev Cluelessness: Confirmed (again).  This tank didn't need that severe a nerf; everything else needed a buff, because they still don't compete with FakeTank.

 

Wish they'd gain some understanding of HESH, and how to deploy it without these wild nerf/buff swings.


Edited by Blartch, 09 July 2019 - 01:28 PM.


AntoineDodson #207 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:14 PM

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And they just clipped some nut hair off the Conway when it needs to be castrated. Both of them, not just one.
Hide your kids, hide your wife
And hide your husband
Cuz they’re derpin errbody out here

Melissa_Durat #208 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:25 PM

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You all wanted. Now You ALL have it. Charioteer BIG nerf. Just like the Vk 100.00



Blartch #209 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:30 PM

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View PostMelissa_Durat, on 09 July 2019 - 08:25 AM, said:

You all wanted. Now You ALL have it. Charioteer BIG nerf. Just like the Vk 100.00

 

Sure, wanted a little balancing.  Didn't want it made completely irrelevant.



__V_O_P__ #210 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:34 PM

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More vanilla in tier 8. Awesome.

_Cletus #211 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View Postcheasesteak, on 09 July 2019 - 07:00 AM, said:


About time on the nerf.  The charioteer may not be as fun, but the game will be more fun for everyone else who isn't playing a broken OP tank.  

I don't think it was all that broken.  The reload speed nerf would have been more than appropriate.  It's easier to pen than most tier 8 lights, turret turns glacially slow, now it won't be able to pen anything and it won't have DPM.  What will it have going for it?  Will it be good at anything?  I don't think so, now it'll be a broken UP tank.


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Kiser_Sosei #212 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

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Ugh that sux I am not done with the grind on it.

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Blartch #213 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

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It will be very good at using up tons and tons of silver since it will now NEED to fire premium HESH at everything to have any chance whatsoever of making an impact in the battle.  It will also be pushed to a far more passive role, at which other tanks already exceed its capability, but hey... "balance."

vvk2 #214 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

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View PostKiser_Sosei, on 09 July 2019 - 08:43 AM, said:

Ugh that sux I am not done with the grind on it.


and that’s what the Rating battles are for :)



michaeltsoon #215 Posted 09 July 2019 - 01:57 PM

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That's why I didn't grind it.

 

At this point, the WG formula is becoming blatantly obvious:

-->Release overpowered tech tree tanks

-->Milk free xp and credits out of players who want it ASAP so they can pad their stats easily

-->The matchmaker gets overrun with these new vehicles. Balance affected negatively.

-->Playerbase complains about how broken these new tanks are, and demand a nerf ASAP

-->WG holds off until every player willing to quickly grind the line has done so. Then, they nerf them to the point of irrelevancy.

-->Rinse, repeat.


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Melissa_Durat #216 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:03 PM

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View Postmichaeltsoon, on 09 July 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

That's why I didn't grind it.

 

At this point, the WG formula is becoming blatantly obvious:

-->Release overpowered tech tree tanks

-->Milk free xp and credits out of players who want it ASAP so they can pad their stats easily

-->The matchmaker gets overrun with these new vehicles. Balance affected negatively.

-->Playerbase complains about how broken these new tanks are, and demand a nerf ASAP

-->WG holds off until every player willing to quickly grind the line has done so. Then, they nerf them to the point of irrelevancy.

-->Rinse, repeat.


Every single PvP game ever. Or almost every game. There are a few games that actually manage to found balance. 



whitham_wannabe #217 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:03 PM

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Does this mean I don't need to bother grinding the Challenger any more?

michaeltsoon #218 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:07 PM

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From the 6.1 news article:

 

-Reload increased from 7.19 to 9.59 s

-Aim time increased from 4 to 4.5 s

-Penetration of the premium HESH decreased from 210 to 175 mm

-Penetration of the cheap HESH decreased from 105 to 90 mm

 

And just like that, one of the most overpowered tanks at tier 8 is in line to becoming just another worthless vanilla tank nobody will bother playing. Congratulations Wargaming, so much for dynamic gameplay.

 

That's why I didn't grind it. At this point, the WG formula is becoming blatantly obvious:


-->Release overpowered tech tree tanks

-->Milk free xp and credits out of players who want it ASAP so they can pad their stats easily

-->The matchmaker gets overrun with these new vehicles. Balance affected negatively.

-->Playerbase complains about how broken these new tanks are, and demand a nerf ASAP

-->WG holds off until every player willing to quickly grind the line has done so. Then, they nerf them to the point of irrelevancy.

-->Rinse, repeat.

 

As for the Charioteer itself, in my opinion it warranted the reload nerf (and perhaps the aim time too) but not the HESH penetration, since that's what made it unique in the first place. It's fine for a TD to have 440 alpha, what's not OK is having nearly 3.7k DPM with the ability to burn down any opponent in under half a minute.

 

This has happened many, many times now. Second German TD line; French autoloaders; American lights; etc.

 

Discuss.


Edited by michaeltsoon, 09 July 2019 - 02:09 PM.

Data/Video Analyof [HATED] - Hated for a reason.

Founder of [PZ3] - Always Loyal, Always Fighting, Always Courageous. PZ3 will carry!

 

 "War does not determine who is right, only who is left" - Bertrand Russell 

My stats


Blartch #219 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:09 PM

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View Postmichaeltsoon, on 09 July 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

That's why I didn't grind it.

 

At this point, the WG formula is becoming blatantly obvious:

-->Release overpowered tech tree tanks

-->Milk free xp and credits out of players who want it ASAP so they can pad their stats easily

-->The matchmaker gets overrun with these new vehicles. Balance affected negatively.

-->Playerbase complains about how broken these new tanks are, and demand a nerf ASAP

-->WG holds off until every player willing to quickly grind the line has done so. Then, they nerf them to the point of irrelevancy.

-->Rinse, repeat.


That's exactly why I did grind it... get in on the ground floor, play it while it's strong, and then tuck it away on a tank shelf forever once it sucks.  Not like I don't have scads of boosters and FreeXP laying around.



Blartch #220 Posted 09 July 2019 - 02:10 PM

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View Postwhitham_wannabe, on 09 July 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

Does this mean I don't need to bother grinding the Challenger any more?


Hurry up, you can get past the Charioteer pretty quick.  Stock-gunned Conway is still adequately burly.







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