Jump to content


Comparison of credits recieved and penalties for Friendly Fire

Friendly Fire Credits Penalties

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

Aventre3 #1 Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:24 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 25879 battles
  • 654
  • [III-S]
  • Member since:
    07-15-2014

So the match stars and i take my vk 30.01 H for a very brisk crawl up in to town to try and set up for a side scrape spot, when and A-20 starts zipping towards our spawn. I take aim, go into sniper mode and wait for a clean shot. I finally see it and as I hit fire, a friendly Wolverine jumps into the shot. I think well that sucks. 

 

A long story short, the Wolverine gets mad and shoots me quite a few times and refused to think that it might have been an accident. I eventually get two shots on the red tank before he gets a single shot on me and kills me. All in all I think the wolverine shot me 4 or 5 times. (The wolverine shot 4 -5 back to back shots into me and never turned blue.... really?)

 

Now as a dead person I'm free to try and explain things more, of course, this individual has already made up their mind about what did or did not happen. I particularly wanted to make the point that he should check his starts to see the penalties. He then stated that with 2 million credits, he could afford to keep shooting me and that it was worth it. 

 

Anyway a long preface with some venting to say that after the match I checked my credit penalties for the damage I caused and the credit for the damage he caused.

 

I caused 168 damage to the wolverine and the Wolverine caused 658 damage to allies.

I recieved 3290 credits for the damage caused by allies. My fine for damage I caused was 5040. This comes down to only 30 credits / HP. So the Wolverine was probably fined 19,740 credits, all things being equal.

 

The Wolverine caused ~4x more damage to allies than I did, but my fine was 1.5x the compensation I received. At first I was mad, but this is what we have been talking about, having larger fines.

 

I think the problem is that the fines are too small, if the wolverine thinks he can afford to keep up friendly fire (FF). The ~20k fine is quickly made up for by even a mediocre game in a premium tank). Keep FF but make the fines 10x (or more!) greater. A 197,400 or 1,974,000 fine would have probably been much more effective at preventing the wolverine's FF (and may have made me more careful too). Or maybe 30 credits /HP the first shot (oops sorry my bad), then 100 credits / HP on second shot  (seriously? again?), 300 credits / HP  on 3rd shot (dude, that itsn't cool), and so on. 

 

But what would really make me happy, is if I could check the wolverine status from the team page in the battle report and EVERYONE could see  a 200K fine for FF. 

 

 

War Gaming,

Did you catch this? The fine for FF is not big enough. Including mine. Keep FF in the upper tiers 5-10 and if you must remove FF, remove it from the sand box 1-4. When you get to the big leagues, your should have to pay for your mistakes, mistakes should hurt, and that pain should be available for all to see in the after battle stats as a warning to others.


For advice and review of Premium Tanks, please see this post.


Androyce #2 Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:32 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 10107 battles
  • 3,557
  • Member since:
    07-02-2014
It's not a matter of credits per unit of damage caused. You simply pay 110% of the repair cost for damage you caused. The amount of credits needed to repair a point of damage on different tanks varies widely, especially if they are different tiers.


thunderthies #3 Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:45 PM

    Not a Hoax

  • Club Wargaming
  • 14051 battles
  • 3,865
  • Member since:
    07-02-2014

View PostAndroyce, on 03 November 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

It's not a matter of credits per unit of damage caused. You simply pay 110% of the repair cost for damage you caused. The amount of credits needed to repair a point of damage on different tanks varies widely, especially if they are different tiers.

 

Right, but what many of us are saying is that it IS a matter of credits per unit of damage caused. Increase the fines exponentially for each consecutive incident of ff and watch the problem magically disappear. 


Check out:   WoTB terms, phrases defined v. 2.0

Check out:    iMovie iOS video production tutorial

Check out:           WoTB beginner's guide, tactics

Check out:                   WoTB YouTube channels


Androyce #4 Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:49 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 10107 battles
  • 3,557
  • Member since:
    07-02-2014

View Postthunderthies, on 03 November 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

 

Right, but what many of us are saying is that it IS a matter of credits per unit of damage caused. Increase the fines exponentially for each consecutive incident of ff and watch the problem magically disappear. 

 

I think the problem is that wargaming doesn't see that as a viable solution. If you read the posts they've made about friendly fire in blitz, like Overlord's initial blog post that announced they were considering getting rid of it, you will see thy consider accidental friendly fire to be a big part of the solution, and find it is more common in Blitz than regular WOT (presumably due to the small screens and less precise controls), and they are doing it as much to protect the players who do damage by accident as the players who are the victims of trolls and wannabe game police.

 

Here are a couple of quotes from Overlord in August:

 

Block Quote

 The thing is that without TK, we can try to save both victims (from being killed and frustrated) and teamkillers (from being banned and frustrated).

 

Block Quote

Especially on mobile in Blitz there is a number of accidental teamhits. Not talking about deliberate delinquents. They are to be punished.

 

Obviously, simply increasing the punishments would increase the bans and frustration for people the devs don't want to punish.



Aventre3 #5 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:08 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 25879 battles
  • 654
  • [III-S]
  • Member since:
    07-15-2014

 

I like the FF. It can be used to great strategic advantage by causing enemy tanks to be more cautious if they might hit their own (3lucky award so far). And I also need to look out for my teammates. 

 

But it seems as though some players like to troll in other ways, like blocking tanks. Some people shoot the offending tank to get them into line. While I haven't done this, I respect other players' right to shoot a teammate who is being a troll, if they are okay with the fine. Removing FF gives trolls the ability to troll without consequences. 

 

I'm not suggesting more bans per se, but if you shoot a teammate with multiple back to back you are either very very very unlucky or doing it on purpose. Especially in hight tiers. 

 

These are the main reasons I like FF. If WR disagrees then that is up to them. I just want them to hear from some dedicated players on the subject too. 


For advice and review of Premium Tanks, please see this post.


Androyce #6 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:14 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 10107 battles
  • 3,557
  • Member since:
    07-02-2014
Overall, I'm against the removal of friendly fire, but I do not have nearly the same sort of strong feelings that many people seem to have on the matter, and I don't think an alternative solution would be simple, such as increasing penalties. A fix to the currently broken ff system would need to be quite complex, considering a number of new factors in weighing damage done and handing out penalties. At the end of the day, a system without some sort of actual human review, which would be a pretty hefty time drain for support staff, is bound to be imperfect, and if wargaming has determined that getting rid of the system altogether is batter for the game and it's player base as a whole, then I can live with it.


thunderthies #7 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:19 PM

    Not a Hoax

  • Club Wargaming
  • 14051 battles
  • 3,865
  • Member since:
    07-02-2014

View PostAndroyce, on 03 November 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

 

I think the problem is that wargaming doesn't see that as a viable solution. If you read the posts they've made about friendly fire in blitz, like Overlord's initial blog post that announced they were considering getting rid of it, you will see thy consider accidental friendly fire to be a big part of the solution, and find it is more common in Blitz than regular WOT (presumably due to the small screens and less precise controls), and they are doing it as much to protect the players who do damage by accident as the players who are the victims of trolls and wannabe game police.

 

Here are a couple of quotes from Overlord in August:

 

 

 

Obviously, simply increasing the punishments would increase the bans and frustration for people the devs don't want to punish.

 

That actually sheds a lot of light behind their reasoning, which I completel disagree with ftr. Still, thanks for posting that info, Androyce. 


Check out:   WoTB terms, phrases defined v. 2.0

Check out:    iMovie iOS video production tutorial

Check out:           WoTB beginner's guide, tactics

Check out:                   WoTB YouTube channels


Aventre3 #8 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:21 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 25879 battles
  • 654
  • [III-S]
  • Member since:
    07-15-2014

View PostAndroyce, on 03 November 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Overall, I'm against the removal of friendly fire, but I do not have nearly the same sort of strong feelings that many people seem to have on the matter, and I don't think an alternative solution would be simple, such as increasing penalties. A fix to the currently broken ff system would need to be quite complex, considering a number of new factors in weighing damage done and handing out penalties. At the end of the day, a system without some sort of actual human review, which would be a pretty hefty time drain for support staff, is bound to be imperfect, and if wargaming has determined that getting rid of the system altogether is batter for the game and it's player base as a whole, then I can live  

 

 

I think they decided it was better to keep the casual players happy with this dessision because they think they will bring in more money from casual players than some dedicated players, many of whom pay a pretty penny themselves. 

For advice and review of Premium Tanks, please see this post.


Asiaticus #9 Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:31 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 16340 battles
  • 2,871
  • [III-S]
  • Member since:
    07-19-2014
I can understand the decision from the perspective of a business running a semi-casual free to play mobile game. I dislike it personally, but it won't keep me from playing. I do think the jerks will still find ways to be jerks.


microcarnage #10 Posted 04 November 2014 - 12:27 AM

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 38777 battles
  • 335
  • [III-C]
  • Member since:
    07-09-2014

My thoughts is to keep FF for higher Tiers.  Starting at 5 or 6.  I think stiffer penalties would lower the amount of FF we see if the penalty is stiff enough.  Think about this.  If you do 10% damage to a tank, you should pay the amount it takes to repair said damage plus 10%. If you do 20% damage then repair costs plus 20% etc.  If your damage is more than 75% of the tank damage and you kill him then there should be an additional penalty.  This way (like in the instance above) shooting multiple times creating a high damage (say 70% ish) then they are severely penalized.

 

I have been on both sides, I have been shot accidentally, I have been shot on purpose, I have shot people accidentally as well as on purpose.  I would have accepted whatever consequence that would have been given me but if the penalty was stiffer, I would have thought about it before shooting/killing someone on purpose after the first time.  I can't make a million credits quickly on a standard account.  If the total penalty can be made up in one game, then it's not big enough.  If it takes a day of credit grinding then people will think about it first.

 

Like with anything automatic, there is nothing that will be perfect, and I agree having someone do it manually would be too time consuming and not cost effective but I think taking out FF is going to cause more frustration among the less than casual gamer that is actually financing this game.  Think about it.  Now everyone will be driving up in front of you before you take that last shot because they know if you do, it won't do anything to them.

 

Guess we will find out tomorrow night what it's all going to be like.


Edited by microcarnage, 04 November 2014 - 12:30 AM.


Player_39363936 #11 Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:08 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Players
  • 67688 battles
  • 4,213
  • [EWENS]
  • Member since:
    06-29-2014
This entire topic is mooted by the update.

Aventre3 #12 Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:53 AM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 25879 battles
  • 654
  • [III-S]
  • Member since:
    07-15-2014

Actually, thinking about my post, WG will conclude that they are right. The whole thing wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't be posting if FF was turned off. 

 

I supposewe will just see how it goes. Wish they had info on the test on the Asian server. 


For advice and review of Premium Tanks, please see this post.






Also tagged with Friendly Fire, Credits, Penalties

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users