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Mediums are Being Nerfed - Supertested on January 4


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Player_5773117413 #341 Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:27 PM

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View PostAugustus_Sohn_Prime, on 03 January 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

NOTICE THE M60 WASN'T MENTIONED?!

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

 

:popcorn:

 

this should be the main focus of the thread

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XoBlitzkriegoX #342 Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:32 PM

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according to wotbstars, there are 45741 medium tanks accounted for at tier 9. 18000 of them (THIRTY NINE PERCENT) are in one tank, guess which medium it is. so, of the 7 available tanks, one medium tank is used by 40% of the playerbase...why? you know all the reasons why

 

at tier 10, there are 25434 accounted for. 7075 (TWENTY EIGHT PERCENT) are in one tank. if you include its brother, that number jumps to 12052 (FORTY SEVEN PERCENT). of the 7 tier 10 meds available, 2 tanks get used with any real consistency. why? you know why.

 

you can apply this to heavies too. at tier 10, 2 tanks make up 56% of the tanks used, the is7 and the e100. ppl use the is7 because its by far the best heavy at tier 10 and the e100 gets used because armor. the other tanks....just dont matter. theyre not competitive for the average player. 

 

personally, i think the armor is fine on the russian tanks. i think the t54 needs a prammo nerf. i think the t10 twins need a rof nerf. they slight dmg penalty they have vs other t10 meds pales in comparison to have the ability to shoot 2+ times a minute extra. 20 less dmg should not equal 2+ rounds/min.

 

the rest of the mediums shouldnt be touched AT ALL. they should keep their current values in all areas.

 



_Crusader6_ #343 Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:34 PM

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View Postruggs225, on 06 January 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Im not arguing that the map doesnt have anything to do with that, but its probably easier to fix tanks than fix maps. Also i really do think they want to rebalance everything bc tier 8 is a mess... but to rebalance that tier u need to rebalance all. Unfortunately they inteoduced a whole mess of changes at once so it is hard to isolate... ie mm changes, provisions, map changes, tank changes, new tanks being addded etc. 

 

if the whole goal is to rebalance the game u need to start somewhere. And ther is nothing to say that they wont rebalance tds, heavys lighta etc. after it. And also we still, or at least I, dont know how much the changes are and what they will finally be.

 

Train Wreck...

 

Fixing a map is much easier than playing with a tank.

  Why you ask?

Well when you play with "balance" on a tank there is a ripple effect.  That affect cascades on thru the tiers.

   Nerf X meds and some 9's - well that has now affected tier 8-10 game play, the only tiers that actually anyone cares about.

 

Now for recent data:

   Yes meds are doing better -- wonder why, most of the morons in them have left to play heavies, because their skills don't cut it in meds.

 Nerfing them will make those clowns less likely to play them, and Unicums and Super Unicums will move to more heaviums.

  So the potatoes will still be wrecked.   Yes you still see a pile of potatoes in every tank type, just the better skilled players can wreck folks in anything.

 

   Solution is only going to happen by fixing the player base and the maps.

 

 

 

 


Edited by __Crusader6__, 06 January 2017 - 09:35 PM.

 

 
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ruggs225 #344 Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:56 PM

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Yea i am aware of the ripple effect when u change stats, however changing stats is a heck of a lot easier than reprogramming a new map. And when u change a map there is also a huge ripple effect, and is more likely to inteoduce bugs pr other problems into the game.  Also it is much more time consuming and much less cost effective.

 

and no i dont think people are running to heavys right now. The most played tanks in the game are still mediums, more specifically russian mediums. And i think more people are starting to play tds more. From what i have witnessed there are less heavy's being played and more meds and tds, and certainly more light tanks.



4sfield #345 Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:00 PM

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View PostXoBlitzkriegoX, on 06 January 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

according to wotbstars, there are 45741 medium tanks accounted for at tier 9. 18000 of them (THIRTY NINE PERCENT) are in one tank, guess which medium it is. so, of the 7 available tanks, one medium tank is used by 40% of the playerbase...why? you know all the reasons why

 

at tier 10, there are 25434 accounted for. 7075 (TWENTY EIGHT PERCENT) are in one tank. if you include its brother, that number jumps to 12052 (FORTY SEVEN PERCENT). of the 7 tier 10 meds available, 2 tanks get used with any real consistency. why? you know why.

 

you can apply this to heavies too. at tier 10, 2 tanks make up 56% of the tanks used, the is7 and the e100. ppl use the is7 because its by far the best heavy at tier 10 and the e100 gets used because armor. the other tanks....just dont matter. theyre not competitive for the average player. 

 

personally, i think the armor is fine on the russian tanks. i think the t54 needs a prammo nerf. i think the t10 twins need a rof nerf. they slight dmg penalty they have vs other t10 meds pales in comparison to have the ability to shoot 2+ times a minute extra. 20 less dmg should not equal 2+ rounds/min.

 

the rest of the mediums shouldnt be touched AT ALL. they should keep their current values in all areas.

 

 

  Yes, we all know why. They're popular because everyone that sees a good one thinks they can play the same way with it. The fact is they can't. There are far more worthless Tier X mediums than there are good ones. I wonder what the percentage of the percentage is? 

 

  Same goes for IS-7's and E-100's. The playerbase rushed to tier X and they don't have any skills. Now they've moved into TD's. It doesn't matter what tank they picked to get there. For the most part they all suck. 

 

  Nerfing the mediums isn't going to solve anything, it's going to make it worse.


Edited by 4sfield, 06 January 2017 - 11:09 PM.

 

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klievhelm #346 Posted 06 January 2017 - 10:47 PM

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Can supertesters talk about the details of the changes, or is that under NDA? Apologies if this was answered already. 


_Crusader6_ #347 Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:48 AM

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View Postklievhelm, on 06 January 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Can supertesters talk about the details of the changes, or is that under NDA? Apologies if this was answered already. 

 

None of the Supertesters are on the NA server, but there are NDA's for folks running stuff on test servers.
 

 
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WareJC #348 Posted 07 January 2017 - 01:04 AM

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View Postairstiker, on 03 January 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

The nerf that might happen kind of makes sense, like how does a 15cm gun (e100) have less pen than a 105mm reound? It has higher caliber, so more force being applied. Please a physics genius explain this to me

 Diameter of round is not a indicator of penetration ability. Mass of final projectile and speed far more important. 


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WareJC #349 Posted 07 January 2017 - 01:08 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 06 January 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

 

  Yes, we all know why. They're popular because everyone that sees a good one thinks they can play the same way with it. The fact is they can't. There are far more worthless Tier X mediums than there are good ones. I wonder what the percentage of the percentage is? 

 

  Same goes for IS-7's and E-100's. The playerbase rushed to tier X and they don't have any skills. Now they've moved into TD's. It doesn't matter what tank they picked to get there. For the most part they all suck. 

 

  Nerfing the mediums isn't going to solve anything, it's going to make it worse.

The ultimate force here is marketing. Look at Twister cup with the most common tank being the 140. Hard to convince common players to grind other lines when the best of the best hover over one line or type of tank.


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Ole_sniper #350 Posted 07 January 2017 - 03:35 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 05 January 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

 

The Leo was actually based on mobility - and the expectation of low yield tactical nuclear devices, and larger scale nuclear exchange.

 

Armor lessons learned in WWII and post war focused on Mobility, and the understanding as rockets etc advanced that one can always build a bigger bomb.

 

Look at the Maus -- it was a DEFENSIVE tank (oxymoron), it couldn't travel to the battle...

   It was never envisioned as a true armored warfare tool - but a pillbox to stem Allied advances.

 

 

The historical approach however is irrelevant with Blitz -- the key is to look at the avg tank performance.

   Despite everyone whining about the maps flattening hurting TD's - statistically the heavies took the biggest hits, BUT still Win more even at high tiers than meds.

  The reason for this is the average player is a clueless oxygen thief, a heavy that can bounce shots, or a TD that can derp someone out of the game do better for these players.   

 Meds have a higher skill base to know how to exploit their capabilities.

   So until WG fixes the player base with decent player education (likelihood never) Mediums will never average out better than the other types, but less than stellar players will continue to complain about OP Meds.

 

 

 

In the Leopard's case, I should've elaborated further.

The opinion of the West Germans was that in an era where hyper-penetration shells and big bombs ruled, a tank's rolled steel armor was useless (in their opinion.)

So basically, speed was seen as imperative in place of armor as protection from the enemy, and thus the Leopard was born.

I agree with the rest of your post, and do believe that history will repeat itself in game unless this nerf goes unchecked as planned. 


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XoBlitzkriegoX #351 Posted 07 January 2017 - 04:20 AM

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View Post4sfield, on 06 January 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

There are far more worthless Tier X mediums than there are good ones. I wonder what the percentage of the percentage is? 

are the other 5 meds that bad or are the other 2 meds just that superior? better rate of fire, better turret armor, better frontal hull armor, and basically the best mobility in game at t10. yeah....



4sfield #352 Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:08 AM

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View PostXoBlitzkriegoX, on 06 January 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

are the other 5 meds that bad or are the other 2 meds just that superior? better rate of fire, better turret armor, better frontal hull armor, and basically the best mobility in game at t10. yeah....

 

   All of that armor, mobility and rate of fire doesn't do the majority of the playerbase any good. Those tanks are only OP in the right hands just like the rest of the "superior" tanks at every tier. 

 

  If that's the basis for nerfing then it's tripe.


 

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noobest_noob #353 Posted 07 January 2017 - 09:54 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 05 January 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Okay so with weighted avg

 

TD WR:

49.45644 Weighted Avg

 

Heavy WR:

 

49.21695 Weighted Avg

 

Med WR:

48.52375 Weighted Avg

 

 

 

Geez Meds REALLY need a buff now...

 

wrong

So many worst WR tank is TD

and you don't count the tank playerbase

 

T54 over 13000 player / 49.64WR

T62A over 5xxx / 47.28WR

STB-1 only 600 player / 54.04WR

 

In fact is many noobs play soviet MT, and good player play Japan MT

 

 


Edited by noobest_noob, 07 January 2017 - 10:04 AM.


WareJC #354 Posted 07 January 2017 - 06:46 PM

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View PostOle_sniper, on 06 January 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

In the Leopard's case, I should've elaborated further.

The opinion of the West Germans was that in an era where hyper-penetration shells and big bombs ruled, a tank's rolled steel armor was useless (in their opinion.)

So basically, speed was seen as imperative in place of armor as protection from the enemy, and thus the Leopard was born.

I agree with the rest of your post, and do believe that history will repeat itself in game unless this nerf goes unchecked as planned. 

Also cost and politics. Germany with a  heavy offensive tank force was not going to fly during the 50's


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Alucard8732 #355 Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:12 PM

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View PostIndiana__Jones, on 04 January 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

Just to clear it up for myself I went back and went through the video of the finals.

Game 1 ...  11 obj140.

Game 2 ... 9 obj140.

Game 3 ...  10 obj140.

Last game ... 6 obj 140.

 

 

Thank you. People dont wanna accept the fact that their beloved tanks are being adjusted... Seeing the 140 get reduced armor is causing DEAD SEA LEVELS OF SALT TO PRODUCE.



Alucard8732 #356 Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:13 PM

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View Postwildbill_53_steel, on 04 January 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

Just got the t54 was going to get the 140,I earned the t54 for what it is ,working on getting the 140 for what it is.These tanks have been around for a long time and now you want to change them,doesn't seem fair I already own the 54 you should not be able to change something I already have. Been in those tier 9 /10 battles and the 54 have no real advantage.And most of the t54 battles are in tier 9/10  match ups,so talk about balance.  Humm

 

Cry more bro... The Twister cup shows that these tanks pull of sht that aint even possible irl... They need a adjustment. The fact that WG is adressing the ruskie bias SAYS ALOT.



4sfield #357 Posted 07 January 2017 - 09:27 PM

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View PostAlucard8732, on 07 January 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Cry more bro... The Twister cup shows that these tanks pull of sht that aint even possible irl... They need a adjustment. The fact that WG is adressing the ruskie bias SAYS ALOT.

 

  Do you not understand the quote below?

 

View Post4sfield, on 07 January 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

 

   All of that armor, mobility and rate of fire doesn't do the majority of the playerbase any good. Those tanks are only OP in the right hands just like the rest of the "superior" tanks at every tier. 

 

  If that's the basis for nerfing then it's tripe.

 


 

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Overload_ed #358 Posted 08 January 2017 - 03:13 AM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 05 January 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

The Leo was actually based on mobility - and the expectation of low yield tactical nuclear devices, and larger scale nuclear exchange.

 

Armor lessons learned in WWII and post war focused on Mobility, and the understanding as rockets etc advanced that one can always build a bigger bomb.

 

Look at the Maus -- it was a DEFENSIVE tank (oxymoron), it couldn't travel to the battle...

   It was never envisioned as a true armored warfare tool - but a pillbox to stem Allied advances.

 

 

The historical approach however is irrelevant with Blitz -- the key is to look at the avg tank performance.

   Despite everyone whining about the maps flattening hurting TD's - statistically the heavies took the biggest hits, BUT still Win more even at high tiers than meds.

  The reason for this is the average player is a clueless oxygen thief, a heavy that can bounce shots, or a TD that can derp someone out of the game do better for these players.   

 Meds have a higher skill base to know how to exploit their capabilities.

   So until WG fixes the player base with decent player education (likelihood never) Mediums will never average out better than the other types, but less than stellar players will continue to complain about OP Meds.

 

 

 

It's simpler than all that: heavy tanks weighed too much. You need a tank that can go places, and that means bridges. Bridges back then didn't have the weight capacity for heavy tanks.  Heavy tanks needed to use railroad bridges to cross rivers. If key bridges were removed, it affects heavies more than mediums. The recent Chieftain's Hatch YouTube video on the Swedish Stridsvagn M/42 specifically mentions their bridge max loads as to why it was designed the size and weight it was. 



Howitzer_155 #359 Posted 08 January 2017 - 03:39 AM

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the thing is yes russian mediums are great, but they still dont make crappy playere great......i see more bad players than good players driving russian mediums.  the average player watches the twister cup sees that all the great players drive them and drive them well so for suuuuuuuure they need nerfed.  the average player grinds to the T-62a/Obj140 and sees that its not all that easy to play tier 10 and get owned in them.  great players make them look superior, because THERE SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR.  

Edited by Howitzer_155, 08 January 2017 - 03:40 AM.


_Crusader6_ #360 Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:08 AM

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View PostOverload_ed, on 07 January 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

It's simpler than all that: heavy tanks weighed too much. You need a tank that can go places, and that means bridges. Bridges back then didn't have the weight capacity for heavy tanks.  Heavy tanks needed to use railroad bridges to cross rivers. If key bridges were removed, it affects heavies more than mediums. The recent Chieftain's Hatch YouTube video on the Swedish Stridsvagn M/42 specifically mentions their bridge max loads as to why it was designed the size and weight it was. 

 

Sweden, vast contributions to modern warfare?

Nope.    While that was a factor for them it wasn't a constraint for the rest of the world 

 

Most NATO MBT's where designed for the Fulda Gap scenarios.  

It wasnt just bridges, it was mobility as a whole. 

    


 

 
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