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Curious - Your Thoughts On +1/-1

Alexbuildit +1/-1 MM

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Poll: Your Thoughts on +1/-1 (134 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 5 battle in order to participate this poll.

Were you for or against +1/-1 Originally?

  1. Yes, I was against +1/-1 (65 votes [47.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.10%

  2. Voted No, I was for +1/-1 (73 votes [52.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.90%

Are you for or against +1/-1 Currently?

  1. Yes, I am against +1/-1 (64 votes [47.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.76%

  2. Voted No, I am for +1/-1 (70 votes [52.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.24%

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evil00genius #41 Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:26 PM

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I was against +1/-1 and I still am.  I would gladly opt-in for a +2/-2 queue option, even if it meant much longer queue times, if it only matched up players with a similar option set (kinda opposite current Supremacy default) so that I could avoid noobs.


STINGRAY_2020 #42 Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:26 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 23 January 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

 

However I understand that +/-1 is here to stay.  

 

Yes. They've buffed/nerfed or otherwise adjusted so many tanks since the change that reverting back would open a whole new can of worms.


 

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Big_Tidday_Goth_GF #43 Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:35 PM

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It's better and more fun this way.  All they need to do is keep bringing out new tanks.

E 50 M: "Gungnir" T-62A: "Charon" Leopard 1: "Tyrfing" Obj. 140: "Deimos" E 100: "Gram" M48 Patton: "Justice" STB-1: "Muramasa" FV4202: "Narsil" FV 215b: "Anduril"  Grille 15: "Mystletainn" IS-4: "Scamander" IS-7 "Ionia" T110E5: "Eclipse" Maus: "Tarnhelm" Obj. 263: "Aristeia" AMX 50 B: "Durandel" Foch 155: "Joyeuse" M60: "Traveller"


j0nn0 #44 Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:41 PM

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I get the appeal of +/-2, but I missed much of that in my absence from the game. Other than the fact that my first grinds were excruciatingly painful, I don't remember it much. As it stands, I don't think that the current player base could even support +/-2 at this point. Too many players either camp scared or yolo like lemmings, only at a more manageable rate so that they die effieicnetly, one by one.

 

Id be all for +/-2 if people actually knew how to play as a team, but since they can't, I prefer +/-1


I may have a few too many tanks. I think I was over 150 in garage by last count.


Leadf00t #45 Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:12 PM

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+-1 is much better, IMO, both for gameplay and player retention.

_Waffle #46 Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:35 PM

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Honestly idgaf.  I'll just play what is available and adapt to the changes.

WMd76 #47 Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

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View PostIndiana__Jones, on 23 January 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

If you like being a -2.  Go to a training room and be a -2.

 

Haven't seen anyone doing that.

 

If it was so great why aren't you doing that?

 

The truth is people loved being +2  ... think IS-6  vs  Cromwell here ...   but being -2 was unfair.

 

+2/-2 is gone forever, and it aint coming back.

tell that to the top on damage tier 6in the rusults screne, i pulled that off many times, and im sure so did many other good players


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(I support +2/-2)


Mayjaplaya #48 Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:57 PM

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View Post_RachelReynolds, on 23 January 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

I remember the time i fought a T95 in my Comet. Lovely times, they were.

 

 

Oh, that must have been great. Ever tried to fight a T95 in a Black Prince or KV-3?

 

I wonder how fun it was to play the T28 against 140s and T-62As.


Edited by Mayjaplaya, 23 January 2017 - 07:59 PM.

YYK

 

Sig credit: Panbun


KempBushThe3rd #49 Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:52 PM

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I prefer +1/-1 because with our playerbase, you need to carry a game often, and how tf do you carry a tier 9 game in a Comet?

 

It's not fair that a Tiger P has to fight against M103's and E75's that it can't pen. It's not fair that a KV-1S has to fight an IS-6 with the same gun but much better armor and almost twice as much DPM. It's not fair that Object 140's can just eat up Pershing's that have terrible DPM.

 

When you land in a bottom tier game, your best hope is to support your higher tier vehicles, and hope that the top tier tanks on the enemy team don't yolo you, because the second they do, you're dead. But who are you trying to support? You're attempting to help brain-damaged, clueless players to carry the team, which there is no way that's gonna happen.


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cheasesteak #50 Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:57 PM

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View PostKempBushThe3rd, on 23 January 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I prefer +1/-1 because with our playerbase, you need to carry a game often, and how tf do you carry a tier 9 game in a Comet?

 

It's not fair that a Tiger P has to fight against M103's and E75's that it can't pen. It's not fair that a KV-1S has to fight an IS-6 with the same gun but much better armor and almost twice as much DPM. It's not fair that Object 140's can just eat up Pershing's that have terrible DPM.

 

When you land in a bottom tier game, your best hope is to support your higher tier vehicles, and hope that the top tier tanks on the enemy team don't yolo you, because the second they do, you're dead. But who are you trying to support? You're attempting to help brain-damaged, clueless players to carry the team, which there is no way that's gonna happen

​KV-1S could contribute pretty well in a tier 8 game.  The gun is still effective against tier 8 armor, and mobility is sufficient to let you hide between shots.  One of the best tier 6s for tier 8 at the time. 


 

 

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Tomio_Hara #51 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:04 PM

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View PostTheFluffyPinkDragon, on 23 January 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

We are talking about +/-1 MM, not Wargaming'a business interests. If you're telling me killing a Tiger II in a Cromwell takes too much skill and that pubs would uninstall if they fail to do so repeatedly, then so be it. We're better off without braindeads that don't know what side and rear armor is anyway.

 

And how often did a cromwell or easy 8 kill an IS-3 or Tiger II? How many games of unbalanced mm where the enemy team would have more top tier tanks and in trade get more bottom tier tanks did it take for that to happen? +2/-2 works great for a game of 15 people, and works for 10. But with just 7 people per team scattered over 3 tiers can lead to more unbalanced games then before. The impact of a stock E 50 being top tier on your team in +2/-2 is far more damaging then it being top tier in +1/-1. The old mm did not make braindead players better, it just weeded them out by making many of them uninstall. Remember when the server population was like 5-7k average? Now on weekdays in the evening it can be 8-12k. +1/-1 was needed for better balance.

 

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wannabeunicum #52 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:18 PM

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The problem when playing a comet in +2-2 mm was not facing a tank like the e75. I can beat most players in an e75 in a comet. But it would be facing t54. Even the apcr wont pen the front of it. It can just yolo rush you and kill you in 18 seconds.

wannabeunicum #53 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:19 PM

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View PostTomio_Hara, on 23 January 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

And how often did a cromwell or easy 8 kill an IS-3 or Tiger II? How many games of unbalanced mm where the enemy team would have more top tier tanks and in trade get more bottom tier tanks did it take for that to happen? +2/-2 works great for a game of 15 people, and works for 10. But with just 7 people per team scattered over 3 tiers can lead to more unbalanced games then before. The impact of a stock E 50 being top tier on your team in +2/-2 is far more damaging then it being top tier in +1/-1. The old mm did not make braindead players better, it just weeded them out by making many of them uninstall. Remember when the server population was like 5-7k average? Now on weekdays in the evening it can be 8-12k. +1/-1 was needed for better balance.

 

Ive seen a 50 winrate scrub in some tier five beat a kv3.

Thats super easy 
if you cant beat a top tier heavy in any normal  medium tank. Then you shouldnt be playing mediums. Its more that facing top tier meds that are the problem



Tomio_Hara #54 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:33 PM

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View Postwannabeunicum, on 23 January 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

 

Ive seen a 50 winrate scrub in some tier five beat a kv3.

Thats super easy 
if you cant beat a top tier heavy in any normal  medium tank. Then you shouldnt be playing mediums. Its more that facing top tier meds that are the problem

 

What was the KV-3's win rate? And that wasn't the problem. The issue was when MM gave your team 2 top tier tanks in a 5-7 match, one being an AT-7 and the other being a stock Tiger with 3 tier VI's and 2 tier V's. Sorta balanced, but however when the other team would get 3 maxed out tier VII tanks I.E. Panther, Comet, Jagpanther with 1 tier VI tank and three tier V tanks it isn't balanced. It happened more often then you think. +1/-1 has resulted in more balanced teams tank wise IMO.

 

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DerpytrollerZ #55 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:44 PM

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View PostTheFluffyPinkDragon, on 23 January 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

If you can't figure out how to kill a tier 10 in a tier 8 then you won't be winning in tier 10.

 

What if i have a IS3 without the BL9?

F*** WG am i right?


DerpytrollerZ #56 Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:49 PM

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View PostKempBushThe3rd, on 23 January 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I prefer +1/-1 because with our playerbase, you need to carry a game often, and how tf do you carry a tier 9 game in a Comet?

 

It's not fair that a Tiger P has to fight against M103's and E75's that it can't pen. It's not fair that a KV-1S has to fight an IS-6 with the same gun but much better armor and almost twice as much DPM. It's not fair that Object 140's can just eat up Pershing's that have terrible DPM.

 

When you land in a bottom tier game, your best hope is to support your higher tier vehicles, and hope that the top tier tanks on the enemy team don't yolo you, because the second they do, you're dead. But who are you trying to support? You're attempting to help brain-damaged, clueless players to carry the team, which there is no way that's gonna happen.

[edited]off m8, i have to face Borsigs in my IS3 and they can pen my upper plate. I face T28 protos that i can't even pen the hull of. IS3 without the BL9 and i constantly get tier 9 games.


F*** WG am i right?


dedmeat137 #57 Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:20 PM

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If +2/-2 is good, why are fail-toons despised?  Especially given that MM usually arranges to have fail-toons on both sides.

DerpytrollerZ #58 Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:03 AM

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View Postdedmeat137, on 23 January 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

If +2/-2 is good, why are fail-toons despised?  Especially given that MM usually arranges to have fail-toons on both sides.

 

I was in a failtoon once, still carried in my Ke-Ho

F*** WG am i right?


LtBandanov #59 Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:26 AM

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I was originally opinionated towards  -2/+2 MM, but we had that test a while back where we had it implemented on our server...one, people complained too much, and would never shut up.

 

On the other hand, you would see things like RU-251s going up against IS-7s and things like that. In PC WoT, that's okay, because you have 14 other tanks that may be able to deal with the IS-7 that the RU spots. In Blitz, in almost every single match (I can think of maybe one or two in all of my battles  that this does not apply.), every tank HAS to be a part of the fight. At some point in the game, you are going to have to make visual contact with your enemy, and chances are he/she will spot you too.

 

Of course, I've paired a T10 heavy with a T8 light. But what about a T32, IS-3, or other T8 heavy facing just about any T10 tank? Sure, in a fair fight, they might win. But in any event, a fight should be as unfair as possible with the odds tipped in your favour before you engage.

 

Now, there is the argument that you will have T10 tanks on your team as well...but say that your team (because we all know it happens, and a lot of us, myself included, are guilty of this) splits up, with the fast T8 and 9s rushing to a flank on one side of the map (say, Castilla) while the heavies go to the mill to duke it out...doesn't help much if the enemy team didn't split and suddenly those three heavies have a 704, Deathstar, some Leopards, an IS-3, etc, steamrolling them. 

 

I feel like I'm not making sense to myself, but hopefully you guys will see what I'm getting at. Put simply, yes, the -1/+1 MM is a good thing for Blitz.


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DerpytrollerZ #60 Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:05 AM

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I mean +2 -2 wouldn't be too bad, you just gotta add some preferential mm to certain tanks with certain modules etc.

F*** WG am i right?






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