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IS-6 Fearless and Snowstorm Jagdtiger 8,8


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AOT_Jaeger2 #121 Posted 23 February 2017 - 12:57 AM

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Look, here's the logic.

1. Yes, Fearless should not have been sold in the first place, that much is settled.

2. People should be compensated.

3. Giving people back the same gold price of the tank is morally just and does nothing wrong. If you bought $30 in gold to get the Fearless and got $30 in gold back, you were not shafted, you were not stolen from, WG has done nothing wrong. An error in programming caused the issue, and the offending tanks have been dealt with. You can use that gold to do a numerous amount of other things instead of getting a Tuer 8 Premium tank that is meant to be rare and earnable, not bought. 

4. Fearless is not better in any way than the normal IS-6. So, essentially, you are paying for a premium camo and a word in the name of your tank. Congratulations, you played yourself.


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little_brother_of_war #122 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:00 AM

    ᎠᏁᏦᏗ ~ A-ne’-tso-di

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View Postmehliveat, on 22 February 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

 

WG is a global compay and is subject to laws in all countries that they operate in.  E.g On WoT PC Asia, we didnt get the 1 dollar crates during the Christmas event like all the other servers, because a Japanese law consider it as gambling and forbade it.  So the entire region missed out on it because of one country.

 

http://forum.worldof...80#entry1576780

 

 

 

Right. Good luck with suing a foreign offshore entity for a pixel game mixup. That's why large corporations assemble teams of attorneys (at a significant cost, by the way) to hash out any complications in financial disputes which often are resolved in arbitration rounds.

 

If you want to address and potentially resolve this in terms of a legal action iI don't know if you are being totally realistic or if youre just high, funny or basically too pissed to think straight.

 

By the way, I'm totally sympathetic to the effect on those as a result of the mixup, but you need to keep it real.

Peace.


Old cowboy saying...

”Yep...it’s a mean ol’ world.”

Fortune cookie proverb...

”Face facts with dignity.”

  Giddy up there, Buckeroo’s!   :B  


little_brother_of_war #123 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:09 AM

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View PostAOT_Jaeger2, on 22 February 2017 - 06:57 PM, said:

Look, here's the logic.

1. Yes, Fearless should not have been sold in the first place, that much is settled.

2. People should be compensated.

3. Giving people back the same gold price of the tank is morally just and does nothing wrong. If you bought $30 in gold to get the Fearless and got $30 in gold back, you were not shafted, you were not stolen from, WG has done nothing wrong. An error in programming caused the issue, and the offending tanks have been dealt with. You can use that gold to do a numerous amount of other things instead of getting a Tuer 8 Premium tank that is meant to be rare and earnable, not bought. 

4. Fearless is not better in any way than the normal IS-6. So, essentially, you are paying for a premium camo and a word in the name of your tank. Congratulations, you played yourself.

 

Yes. Yes, I did. Good points.

 

If I get the IS6, though, will WG at least kiss me? 'Cause I really like that after getting screwed real good.

 

(Lol! Just kidding, I'm  a grown person and I can take it!)         :great:

 

Nice points again, though! Thanks


Old cowboy saying...

”Yep...it’s a mean ol’ world.”

Fortune cookie proverb...

”Face facts with dignity.”

  Giddy up there, Buckeroo’s!   :B  


NICKEL_AND_DIME #124 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:16 AM

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So when someone who had the Fearless loads their garage and looks for it, do they hear this:

"That one bounced!"

YourMomCallsMeOedipus #125 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:23 AM

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View PostNICKEL_AND_DIME, on 22 February 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

So when someone who had the Fearless loads their garage and looks for it, do they hear this:

"That one bounced!"

 

Just like when I check my bank account... 

 

 

I'm joking. 


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little_brother_of_war #126 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:26 AM

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OUCH!      

      

 


Edited by little_brother_of_war, 23 February 2017 - 01:29 AM.

Old cowboy saying...

”Yep...it’s a mean ol’ world.”

Fortune cookie proverb...

”Face facts with dignity.”

  Giddy up there, Buckeroo’s!   :B  


little_brother_of_war #127 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:28 AM

    ᎠᏁᏦᏗ ~ A-ne’-tso-di

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View PostNICKEL_AND_DIME, on 22 February 2017 - 07:16 PM, said:

So when someone who had the Fearless loads their garage and looks for it, do they hear this:

"That one bounced!"

 

OUCH! ...that one hurt!      

      

...but, alas, so true.          :child:       Lol...at least I got to look at it sitting there for about fifteen minutes.

 

(nice move WG making it disappear overnight...woke up this morning and thought it must've of just been a dream, geez...mmgghh!)

 


Edited by little_brother_of_war, 23 February 2017 - 06:11 AM.

Old cowboy saying...

”Yep...it’s a mean ol’ world.”

Fortune cookie proverb...

”Face facts with dignity.”

  Giddy up there, Buckeroo’s!   :B  


Darth_Revan__ #128 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:35 AM

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View Post_Pandageddon, on 22 February 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

How does one not notice this?

 

The video came out before the maintenance, and not one person noticed it? :teethhappy:

 

I did XD http://imgur.com/YzBlA98  http://imgur.com/e2o3Mm8

Edited by Darth_Revan__, 23 February 2017 - 01:38 AM.

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mehliveat #129 Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:38 AM

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View Postlittle_brother_of_war, on 23 February 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

Right. Good luck with suing a foreign offshore entity for a pixel game mixup. That's why large corporations assemble teams of attorneys (at a significant cost, by the way) to hash out any complications in financial disputes which often are resolved in arbitration rounds.

 

If you want to address and potentially resolve this in terms of a legal action iI don't know if you are being totally realistic or if youre just high, funny or basically too pissed to think straight.

 

By the way, I'm totally sympathetic to the effect on those as a result of the mixup, but you need to keep it real.

Peace.

 

Where did I say anything about legal action?  I was replying to a question whether WG is subject to local laws, and yes they are.

 

As to the situation at hand, my view is that WG needs to soothe things over, give more than just 1 day premium and booster.  The problem here is the eroding trust between WG and sections of its customer base.  People aint gonna buy IAP if there is no trust.  Look at how WG dealt with Kenny or Shinobi?  Or the general guide as to never nerf premiums.  All this is to build up trust so people will be more willing to open their wallets.  Why would people spend money on a premium tank if its going to be nerfed?  Why would people spend money on a premium tank if its going to be taken away.

 

Think about it, the next time you buy a premium tank, how would you know you will get what you paid for.  Without trust, the e-goods/IAP economy will collapse.

 

So all the EULA and legalities aside, WG needs to soothe over this issue.  As some suggested, give an CDC or Mutant instead of Fearless, or my suggestion of giving a low tier premium as additional compensation.  Remember that giving away digital goods doesnt actually cost WG any money besides potential lost income from these customers.  But if they piss off these customers, they arent going to spend anything anyways, and you get yourself a PR problem at the same time.



little_brother_of_war #130 Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:10 AM

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View Postmehliveat, on 22 February 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

 

Where did I say anything about legal action?  I was replying to a question whether WG is subject to local laws, and yes they are.

 

As to the situation at hand, my view is that WG needs to soothe things over, give more than just 1 day premium and booster.  The problem here is the eroding trust between WG and sections of its customer base.  People aint gonna buy IAP if there is no trust.  Look at how WG dealt with Kenny or Shinobi?  Or the general guide as to never nerf premiums.  All this is to build up trust so people will be more willing to open their wallets.  Why would people spend money on a premium tank if its going to be nerfed?  Why would people spend money on a premium tank if its going to be taken away.

 

Think about it, the next time you buy a premium tank, how would you know you will get what you paid for.  Without trust, the e-goods/IAP economy will collapse.

 

So all the EULA and legalities aside, WG needs to soothe over this issue.  As some suggested, give an CDC or Mutant instead of Fearless, or my suggestion of giving a low tier premium as additional compensation.  Remember that giving away digital goods doesnt actually cost WG any money besides potential lost income from these customers.  But if they piss off these customers, they arent going to spend anything anyways, and you get yourself a PR problem at the same time.

 

Yeah, I thought I was agreeing with you and at the same time pointing out to those who've been referencing filing legal actions, just how  difficult and unrealistic the notion is.

I just don't see how getting stiffed on a pixel game transaction meets the threshold of standing in that regard. At least not where I reside. I wouldn't even know how to begin a discussion like that with a straight face.

 

But I understand what you're saying, somewhat, I just don't know what significant recourse can actually be coerced from a host gaming entity. Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for some type of compensation but the call will inevitably be of their own volition. And the likelihood of that occurring seems slim at best. But one could hope.

 

And I for one, appreciate you making the strong points in that regard.

 

 


Old cowboy saying...

”Yep...it’s a mean ol’ world.”

Fortune cookie proverb...

”Face facts with dignity.”

  Giddy up there, Buckeroo’s!   :B  


razernaga2014 #131 Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:51 AM

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As copied from the 3.6 issues topic where I was likely the first to suggest...

 

Block Quote

 

 

I've just realized I've been ranting, and letting WG solve the problems they've created.  While this idea will likely be ignored, it will satisfy my inner debater.

 

WG has taken away fearless, and gifted gold in return (equal value).


For all players who purchased the fearless deal, they are offered an AMX CDC.  If they choose to accept, an appropriate gold value will be deducted, and the remaining gold will be left at the player's discretion.  If they choose to deny, the gold will remain theirs, and they will be able to submit a ticket to Apple or Google play requesting a refund on the basis of Wargaming's double double crossing.  This deal will also be open to the "true" owners of the Fearless (CW2 winners).  The deal will have a 24hr accept period.

 

 


I have quit the game for now.  It is no longer what I began playing in 2014, and while change is not inherently bad, it is also not inherently good either.  

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WareJC #132 Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:52 AM

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View PostAOT_Jaeger2, on 22 February 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

Look, here's the logic.

1. Yes, Fearless should not have been sold in the first place, that much is settled.

2. People should be compensated.

3. Giving people back the same gold price of the tank is morally just and does nothing wrong. If you bought $30 in gold to get the Fearless and got $30 in gold back, you were not shafted, you were not stolen from, WG has done nothing wrong. An error in programming caused the issue, and the offending tanks have been dealt with. You can use that gold to do a numerous amount of other things instead of getting a Tuer 8 Premium tank that is meant to be rare and earnable, not bought. 

4. Fearless is not better in any way than the normal IS-6. So, essentially, you are paying for a premium camo and a word in the name of your tank. Congratulations, you played yourself.

Point 1) How would anyone know this? Item was put up for sale so its mute.

Point 2) The concept of being made whole should be applied. Return to customer to the original condition be it gold or for ones with recent bundle or gold purchase return credit. By your words they are keeping a sale on the books but not for a item the customer wanted.

Point 3) WG is resposible for the error but it is a multi stage one that passed thru several department not some random code bug.

Point 4) The camo is what I wanted sort of like a Fury vs Sherman. I bought a item for sale. Then it was taken back in poorly thought move, that is not playing myself.


Edited by WareJC, 23 February 2017 - 02:53 AM.

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razernaga2014 #133 Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:55 AM

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View PostAOT_Jaeger2, on 22 February 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

Look, here's the logic.

1. Yes, Fearless should not have been sold in the first place, that much is settled.

2. People should be compensated.

3. Giving people back the same gold price of the tank is morally just and does nothing wrong. If you bought $30 in gold to get the Fearless and got $30 in gold back, you were not shafted, you were not stolen from, WG has done nothing wrong. An error in programming caused the issue, and the offending tanks have been dealt with. You can use that gold to do a numerous amount of other things instead of getting a Tuer 8 Premium tank that is meant to be rare and earnable, not bought. 

4. Fearless is not better in any way than the normal IS-6. So, essentially, you are paying for a premium camo and a word in the name of your tank. Congratulations, you played yourself.

 

I buy a new car. Car company calls the next day: car has a poor frame design. Recalling all of that model. I get my money back, and nothing more.  

 

Sure, it seems fair.  But the thing is, car companies will replace the part (or car) free of charge.  WG isn't replacing. They're removing.  


I have quit the game for now.  It is no longer what I began playing in 2014, and while change is not inherently bad, it is also not inherently good either.  

How To Crossfire

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woof_defender #134 Posted 23 February 2017 - 03:15 AM

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I think that personally players who bought the fearless or jg 88 snowstorm should either:

-get to keep the tank

-get a full refund in dollars

if they wanted gold they would buy gold. But they wanted the tank. If you take away the tank then the purchase is completely pointless. That gold you gave them is useless to them.


 

 

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Iahs2k #135 Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:13 AM

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View PostCC_Sly, on 22 February 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

 

It will not use an exception - if they say it will - let me know and I will take care of it.

 

 

The naming idea is not a bad one. Unfortunately it would require another binary update and increase in file size in order to add in another 3D model and texture just to change a name. Which would require us to submit it for all of the Apple and Google QA processes, etc , etc - it would be weeks before we would see anything.

 

I'll bring up your other suggestions as well.

 

There have been many good suggestions in this thread - but I remind you to please keep it on topic and I will continue to gather and relay feedback and possible options. If anything additional changes or is done I will update the Original Post.

 

I want my PURCHASED fearless RETURNED.....  YOUVE stolen it and switched it for crap gold that I did not want.  Anything else is BULL.  Forward to the powers that be that refund request to Apple and a report about this fraudulent transaction and supporting screenshots will be provided as well.  Tank had best be returned.

Edited by Iahs2k, 23 February 2017 - 05:15 AM.


Player_0000000007 #136 Posted 23 February 2017 - 05:21 AM

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Dear WG,

 

I don't know who's working in your marketing department or whatever, but I do know one thing about them: they are not getting paid enough. Please use the money that I have wasted on the crates to give these people a raise.

 

Honestly, I have never seen people sell some boring, generic product so well. The "Fearless" has been the best billboard for Gold that I have seen yet! Sell something to someone who's already got enough of it? "No problem," they said. These people are incredibly clever. 

 

You probably have the best marketing business in the industry right now, you need to keep them happy. Give 'em a bonus, raise their wage, or drop another couple of fat stacks on top of their salary, whatever. If you don't, well heck, what's keeping them from moving on to doing the second generation of Kate Upton Super Bowl commercials for that one app...what's it called again?

 

 

Your's Truly,

Player_5773117413


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_Scalphunter_ #137 Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:06 AM

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I'm got my response to my ticket.  It was the same [edited]we've gotten here. Basically it was congrats you are getting all your gold back plus a whole day of premium time and some crappy boosters you'll never use!  We are doing you such a favor by giving you back your gold, which you can use to buy lots of crap that you don't need or want!  

 

WG is the fail platoon of gaming. 



Storm216 #138 Posted 23 February 2017 - 08:46 AM

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View PostDevils_Doughnut, on 23 February 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

I'm got my response to my ticket.  It was the same [edited]we've gotten here. Basically it was congrats you are getting all your gold back plus a whole day of premium time and some crappy boosters you'll never use!  We are doing you such a favor by giving you back your gold, which you can use to buy lots of crap that you don't need or want!  

 

WG is the fail platoon of gaming. 

Same. Was gonna persist, but eh idk if it'll do anything.



ahredstealth #139 Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

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View PostCC_Sly, on 22 February 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

Things that are in discussions 

  1. Will/Can we wipe the stats of the gifted tanks from players accounts?
  2. Bring up the idea of having people use the gold they purchased when the IS-6F and Snowstorm to purchase other limited time tanks.
    • I can bring this up as an option but I am not sure we can ID the people properly in any sort of timely manner.

 

I will be watching this topic and trying to answer any questions I can. If another point comes up I can add it to the "Things that are in discussions" section. I will continue to bring your concerns and feedback to the decision makers and will do my best to make sure every concern is heard.

 

This part has changed since I last looked at this thread, and I would like to discuss it more.

Sly, what do you mean by "You don't think you can sort them in a timely manner?"

Are we talking days?  Or weeks, or months?

I can wait a good long time if it means getting a rare tank.  That solution would be much preferable to "gold back/1 day of premium/boosters."  

 

View Post_LXX, on 22 February 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

I understand the frustration, but here's the deal. They gave you back what you gave them. If they had sold the tank for a purchase price, they would've had to refund the money. But they sold it for gold. So when they removed the tank, you got your gold back. The fact that you spent money on the gold is immaterial. Gold is the currency of the game, you could've bought the gold for any number of uses outside of buying a tank. Chances are, you already do.

 

Also, picture this. Let's say I purchased gold a month ago, but never used it. Now I use it to buy a Fearless. They take the Fearless and give me my gold back. How does WG determine who gets compensated money for gold that was bought SPECIFICALLY for the purchase of a Fearless, and those that just used gold they already had? Asking for monetary reimbursement just doesn't make sense.

 

The money was converted to gold that was ear-marked for a rare tank.  The money would not have been converted to gold unless the tank was for sale.  Ergo, that money was ear-marked for the rare tank, and gold refund is less then acceptable to many.

 

Also, I cannot use the gold for other tanks they put for sale in the game, because it requires money.  (Example: T-54 first prototype.  Available only for money.)  If they want to return the money I spent on gold to my google play account, I'm fine with that.  Then when they sell another tank in game, I can spend that money on it... but if they sell another tank like the (insert name here, O-47/Proto/etc etc) and I cannot use my returned gold to purchase that tank, it is a less useful currency then the one I originally spend to get the tank.  The gold was a means to an end.  It was not the currency that was spent by the end user for the specific item in question.

 

View PostBobaFett_56, on 22 February 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Wargaming actually did players a favor by removing them because those are Clan War rewards and major shell bait in battle. Basically when you see one in battles it's almost like  it has a sign saying: 

I AM A UNICUM PLAYER PLEASE SHOOT ME TO DEATH QUICKLY OR YOU WILL LOSE BECAUSE THIS IS A FEARLESS UNICUM TANK!

 

 

If you have basic ability to move your thumbs in a coordinated manner, you wanted people to think you were a unicum and shoot at you.  The IS-6 is brokenly bouncy, so you want the entire Red team shooting at you instead of your window licking team mates who are sitting sideways in the open.

It was part of the appeal of the Fearless.


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shiekyerbooti2 #140 Posted 23 February 2017 - 03:02 PM

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Mistakes happen, but the decision makers at WG blew the recovery. WG, you need to eat this mistake. Instead, the customers ( yes customers, not players) who purchased gold for this tank are out all of the cash that the gold cost them...meanwhile WG is drawing interest on that same cash...it's theirs now. If the tanks weren't supposed to be there, but they were and they were purchased, then the customer either keeps the purchase, or a full refund should be provide...not "store credit." This was poorly executed, but instead of WG taking the hit, they passed it along to their customers. If this were a store on the corner, the BBB would have a field day.




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