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IS-6 Fearless and Snowstorm Jagdtiger 8,8


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tweek_1 #441 Posted 01 March 2017 - 05:39 AM

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Look the solution is simple rename the cw3 winners tank, I suggest the IS-6 Reaper complete with new camo. Ta da fixed.

mehliveat #442 Posted 01 March 2017 - 06:57 AM

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View PostCptCheez, on 01 March 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

And now you're just being argumentative for the sake of arguing.

 

I am being arguementative?

 

Let look at what you said

 

View PostCptCheez, on 01 March 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

You know absolutely nothing about how much I've spent on this game.  

 

Fair enough, an outsider such as Mike can't tell how much you have spent from just looking at your stats.

 

View PostCptCheez, on 01 March 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

And I've damn sure spent more than many of the accounts I've seen that got an M60.  All those new accounts with barely any tanks in the garage and barely any battles, are you seriously going to try to say ANY of them have spent more than I have?

 

Ok, so if you can't tell how much people have spent from just looking on the surface.  How can you be so sure that you have spent these all these new players with M60s?

 

Seriously.  How can you tell for sure?

 

From M60 thread, its pretty obvious that people got the tanks AND commented on the thread were spenders, some bigger than others.  But they all are well in the hundreds if not thousands.  There were some discrenpcies since some self-reported that they have spent less than other and received the tank.  So perhaps spending wasn't the only factor.


But as to those reports of "new" players receiving the tank, they were all from blitzstars or wotbstars.  No actual self reporting and confirmation.  Since we can't tell the amount of spending from stats alone.  All we can conclude from the actual reports is that $$$$ played a big factor, there might be other factor involved, but its hard to see a trend from the various vauge comments/data points.

 

As whether this was intention or not.

 

http://forum.wotblit...603#entry166603

 

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 I believe I was the first person to raise a fuss about the M60 when I first heard about it. I'm also doing a lot of pushing on my end regarding details (but don't get your hopes up). 

 

An Asia mod already foresaw the M60 mess, so whatever happened, it was intentional and not merely a mistake and tanks randomly distributed.

 

 

 

 

 

 



T1tanic #443 Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:03 AM

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Well now, there is absolutely NO reason NOT to return both tanks to the gift shop as they are CLEARLY no longer special.

_Pandageddon #444 Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:12 AM

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View PostT1tanic, on 28 February 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Well now, there is absolutely NO reason NOT to return both tanks to the gift shop as they are CLEARLY no longer special.

 

Considering the population of them only went up by a little, that would be a very stupid idea. Although, I assume you're one of the ones who didn't buy one in the hours it was available and now created a invalid reason so you could buy it? :popcorn:

 

 


mike82198 #445 Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:11 AM

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View Post_Pandageddon, on 01 March 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

 

Considering the population of them only went up by a little, that would be a very stupid idea. Although, I assume you're one of the ones who didn't buy one in the hours it was available and now created a invalid reason so you could buy it? :popcorn:

 

To be fair, I don't think there's any problem with WG selling this mistake tank semi-regularly to capitalize on the novelty (see Shinobi). It's absolutely no longer exclusive to CW winners. From skimming a couple of threads and hearing from people on discord there are now more Fearless buyers than winners, so it really makes no difference if there's 100 or 1,000 bought ones out there. Throw it up in the store for a day or two every July for $50. WG could even use the extra proceeds from this little burst of purchases just now to give out something to the CW winners to not leave them as the only losers of this salty little episode. Haha. Just kidding. 


Edited by mike82198, 01 March 2017 - 09:12 AM.


Psyberius #446 Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:52 AM

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View PostCptCheez, on 28 February 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

*looks in garage, sees no M60*  Nope, sorry Mike.

^This! Been playing since day one on iOS and spent a lot on this game. More than I'd care to admit or am willing to publish here. Just sayin...


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Spekulatius #447 Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

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View PostiRaikkonen, on 28 February 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

Simply replace the IS-6 Fearless with a standard IS-6 tomorrow and give each player the option to get a full refund if they no longer want the IS-6 which is identical to the Fearless in terms of stats

What you suggest still amounts to reversing a paid transaction, which apparently is not that easy for WG to do. They tried the same with the Kenny, which they sold for $5 (if memory serves me well), but in the end they decided they could not reverse the transaction, whichout risking to get into trouble.

 

I suggest, the original Fearless owners get into a discussion with WG about a reasonable compensation for the loss of exclusivity. I think you guys may be able to get something out of it.

 

Last, not least the learning, from this and the Kenny disaster - if you see a mistake in WG shop, take advantage of it as soon as you can. WG will not be able to reverse the transaction.


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Forgotten_Fox #448 Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:28 PM

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Post no longer valid.

Edited by Forgotten_Fox, 01 March 2017 - 01:22 PM.

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fever872 #449 Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:33 PM

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View PostNjourour, on 28 February 2017 - 10:08 PM, said:

With all of the feedback that we have received regarding the IS-6 Fearless & the Jagdtiger 8.8 Snowstorm being removed from the Gift Store and players accounts, a decision has been made to return the tank(s) to the accounts to the players that have previously received or purchased them!

 

The tanks will be returned to the recipient accounts starting on 03/01/17.

 

If you did not receive the tank(s) that were removed from your account, please feel free to contact us for further assistance.

 

:honoring:

Thank you wargaming!



iRaikkonen #450 Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:46 PM

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View PostForgotten_Fox, on 01 March 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

 

The problem is, CW 2 winners recieved a t8 prem worth about 8k gold. CW 3 winners will be lucky to get 6k gold. WG cant compensate CW 2 without first raising the CW 3 prize pool, which is unlikley. On the bright side, CW 2 winners got the tank months before everyone else, and it is still a rare tank. Although WG is reluctant to compensate, as CW 2 winners paid them $0, while fearless buyers paid around $50. Its not that they dont want to compensate, it's that they feel it is excessive to recieve around 10-12k gold in the form of a tank, and compensation, while CW3 winners will barely get half that. 

Uh this is absolutely incorrect. The expected pay out for tier ten winners is 1000-2000 gold and a camo that's given out as a participation award. Wg doesn't need to ramp up the prizes for something that hasn't event happened yet. Especially not with them putting out two tournaments a week. You act as if the original winners were beta testers for this tank with "early access". Clearly you weren't part of the Defiant team that won CW2 because you'd have a much different view of your Fearless becoming devalued. It's not a rare tank anymore after today. The day they came out I saw one 4 out of every 5 battles. You realize too that when they paid 7850 gold, they were re credited 8000? Which is probably gone and spent and then on top of getting the gold FOR FREE, they will get back the tank that they didn't earn. I wouldn't be surprised if the CW3 camo goes on sale 2 months after clan wars 


Edited by iRaikkonen, 01 March 2017 - 12:48 PM.

 


Forgotten_Fox #451 Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

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View PostiRaikkonen, on 01 March 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

Uh this is absolutely incorrect. The expected pay out for tier ten winners is 1000-2000 gold and a camo that's given out as a participation award. Wg doesn't need to ramp up the prizes for something that hasn't event happened yet. Especially not with them putting out two tournaments a week. You act as if the original winners were beta testers for this tank with "early access". Clearly you weren't part of the Defiant team that won CW2 because you'd have a much different view of your Fearless becoming devalued. It's not a rare tank anymore after today. The day they came out I saw one 4 out of every 5 battles. You realize too that when they paid 7850 gold, they were re credited 8000? Which is probably gone and spent and then on top of getting the gold FOR FREE, they will get back the tank that they didn't earn. I wouldn't be surprised if the CW3 camo goes on sale 2 months after clan wars 

Oh my, I didn't know the prizing was that low. And I get what you mean by the "Free Fearless". I understand what you mean, and I wouldn't be suprised by them selling the CW3 camo. Every rare tank in this game so far has been resold. The only ones we are waiting on now are the m60, and the Otsu. I personally respect those who earned it, as it was the "pinnacle" of torunies. I hope WG gives CW2 winners at least some compensation, but I wouldn't be suprised if they just handed out useless boosters


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Ruby_Rose_ #452 Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:54 PM

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Just give a substitute for the IS-6F because I actually have respect for those who earned it. 
(IS-5, their choice of premium tank, or make up an entirely different IS-6 skin) 


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G0ClimbAR0ck #453 Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:55 PM

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View Postmehliveat, on 01 March 2017 - 06:57 AM, said:

 

And I've damn sure spent more than many of the accounts I've seen that got an M60.  All those new accounts with barely any tanks in the garage and barely any battles, are you seriously going to try to say ANY of them have spent more than I have?

 

Ok, so if you can't tell how much people have spent from just looking on the surface.  How can you be so sure that you have spent these all these new players with M60s?

 

Seriously.  How can you tell for sure?

 

From M60 thread, its pretty obvious that people got the tanks AND commented on the thread were spenders, some bigger than others.  But they all are well in the hundreds if not thousands.  There were some discrenpcies since some self-reported that they have spent less than other and received the tank.  So perhaps spending wasn't the only factor.


But as to those reports of "new" players receiving the tank, they were all from blitzstars or wotbstars.  No actual self reporting and confirmation.  Since we can't tell the amount of spending from stats alone.  All we can conclude from the actual reports is that $$$$ played a big factor, there might be other factor involved, but its hard to see a trend from the various vauge comments/data points.

 

As whether this was intention or not.

 

http://forum.wotblit...603#entry166603

 

 

An Asia mod already foresaw the M60 mess, so whatever happened, it was intentional and not merely a mistake and tanks randomly distributed.

 

Seriously? How do you explain then the individuals who have an M60, and when asked in game how much they spent replied with less than $200? How does someone who spent less than $200 have one and yet people who spent >$500 not have one if $ spent is the deciding factor? You can believe whatever you want, but when the WG game producer manager says in a stream that the M60 was given away as an experiment with there being no criteria for who received it, I will decide to believe that instead of people speculating that $ spent was the criteria for who received one with nothing but confirmation bias to back up their ignorant argument.

 

Given away during an experiment seems awfully intentional to me, fwiw. Also, you do realize that the majority of people posting on that M60 thread are people who care about the game, as evident by them finding the forums in the first place. These people represent a small minority of the overall population of blitz players, among which an even smaller amount of people got the M60. It is more likely that people who care about the game will spend a large amount of money on the game. There are tons of people who I've spoken to and looked up in game regarding the M60 who did not spend thousands, or even hundreds of $ on this game; yet they still got one. Data speaks. Speculation doesn't. 



Ruby_Rose_ #454 Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

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View PostG0ClimbAR0ck, on 01 March 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

 

Seriously? How do you explain then the individuals who have an M60, and when asked in game how much they spent replied with less than $200? How does someone who spent less than $200 have one and yet people who spent >$500 not have one if $ spent is the deciding factor? You can believe whatever you want, but when the WG game producer manager says in a stream that the M60 was given away as an experiment with there being no criteria for who received it, I will decide to believe that instead of people speculating that $ spent was the criteria for who received one with nothing but confirmation bias to back up their ignorant argument.

 

Given away during an experiment seems awfully intentional to me, fwiw. Also, you do realize that the majority of people posting on that M60 thread are people who care about the game, as evident by them finding the forums in the first place. These people represent a small minority of the overall population of blitz players, among which an even smaller amount of people got the M60. It is more likely that people who care about the game will spend a large amount of money on the game. There are tons of people who I've spoken to and looked up in game regarding the M60 who did not spend thousands, or even hundreds of $ on this game; yet they still got one. Data speaks. Speculation doesn't. 

 

Maybe Loyalty is a matter?

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ScumbagJuJu #455 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:18 PM

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Bodya_bomber #456 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:39 PM

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Will this thread matter in 5 years? Probably not. We'll grow up and move on.

 

You win some, you lose some. Is6 fearless is still an IS6.

I hoped that they'd pull the Fearless as the prize from CW2 because of the cheating and inside dirty business was going on. But that didn't happen, and many got the Fearless undeserved. So now karma comes around and shafts some cheaters and things blow up. Life, the best teacher :teethhappy:

 

The outcome was predictable, money talks for WG, especially when legal action is a threat. So now, we take what we get and just move on.

 

Those that bought the Fearless - you now have a skinned IS6, the most overplayed tank. Enjoy it.

Those that got it from CW2 -  you have a skinned IS6, the most overplayed tank. Enjoy it.


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yl1de #457 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:40 PM

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CC_Sly,

Thank you for your help in getting this resolved and keeping the forum updated. Great job!

 

 



Gavidoc01 #458 Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:40 PM

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Kenny is a different story IMO. When the Kenny was offered, it was to purchase the tank. WG sold the actual tank to those of us who bought it. 

 

The Fearless was exchanged for gold. To obtain the Fearless in the store, the buyer had to have gold for the transaction which was purchased via the game. Gold sold for cash. When WG took the Fearless, they returned the gold. They could of left it like that more than likely but this was a case of doing what was "right" and owning up to the mix up and just returned the tanks which is fine though I personally disagree with it.


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Freejack1977 #459 Posted 01 March 2017 - 03:55 PM

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View PostCC_Sly, on 28 February 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Heya Tankers.

 

Let's get to this. I got an e-mail with an update to the whole IS-6 Fearless and Snowstorm Jagdtiger 8,8 situation.

 

TL;DR: We are going to be returning all gifted IS-6 Fearless and Snowstorm Jagdtiger 8,8 tanks to the accounts we removed them from.

 

Now with the TL;DR out of the way, I think I'd like to explain a bit more what you did to help with this decision and why it was changed.

 

The why is easy. We screwed up and it is not right to punish the players because of a mistake that we as a company made. It would be one thing if it was going to break the core balance of the game in some way - either in game economy or game balance. This was not the case however. It was a reskinned IS-6. A tank that was already in game. So balance-wise there should be no issue. The Snowstorm just was meant to be a 2015 tank - so no big deal there.

 

We come to the issue now of those who have earned the IS-6 Fearless through Clan Wars. This is a bit of a tough one. I really only have one thing I can offer you. That is my apology and promise I will do everything in my power to make sure the Fearless stays off any type of store. It is meant to be a high skill earned tank. It is not fair however to deny the people who, for all intents and purposes, purchased gold to buy the tank. I cannot offer you any reward or compensation. There are not many out there. I can’t tell you the exact number but it is small. (fewer than the posts in the thread I made) You may see them "everywhere" for a bit, but it is people trying out their new shiny tank. Again I am sorry.

 

Now for the how you helped. It is pretty simple. You provided your views and stories. Posts like this , this, and this give us solid arguments and suggestions to put forth when discussing changes like these. On the other side - we have comments like this and this that don’t really tell a story or offer anything for discussion.

 

So when you have issues or see something you don’t agree with, let us know. Post a topic, give us feedback, and try and suggest a solution. We do look at it and we do share it. Our priority is to make Blitz the best experience for the most people. I thank you for your patience and understanding that you have all showed while we got this resolved.     

This is very wise decision and taking responsibility for your mistakes is the first step to success. Respect.

Thank you.



CC_Sly #460 Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:56 PM

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I have seen a lot of back and forth and it is getting to the point where this thread will just be a place where people can argue about small details and pick apart other's posts. That was not the intent of this thread.

 

So I am going to close it.

 

@People who are happy with the decision: You are welcome and I thank you for your patience and understanding during the whole matter. It was a hard decision that required time and discussion - but in the end we did what we thought was best for the players of Blitz. 

 

@ People who are unhappy with the decision: I am sorry you feel this was unfair or the wrong action to take. I completely understand your frustrations and they are valid. We looked at it from all perspectives and while it does mean there will be more IS-6 Fearless and Snowstorm Jagdtiger 8,8 tanks out there - we felt it was the right thing to do.

 

@People who won the IS-6 Fearless in Clan Wars 2: No you are not forgotten. No you are not going to be just casually swept under the rug and called a necessary causality. At this time I have nothing to offer you. That does not mean I will stop looking for something. The goal is to let you have something that is in game and unique in order to identify you as winners of Clan Wars 2. I will continue to look for an opportunity to give you something that fulfills those requirements. I don't have a timeframe or even a "It will happen" promise I can give. I can only say I will continue to look for something.   


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