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MM sucks. We need WG to blend the WR asap

Unbalanced teams potatos on the side

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sumdumguy11 #61 Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:02 PM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 30 March 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

I have a challenge for both sides of the argument (MM is rigged/not rigged).

 

-Play 20 battles, same tier (say T7), non-Supremacy, within the same 1-2 hour time slot.

 

-10 battles play as you usually would

-10 battles completely AFK (no moving the tank then AFKing).

-Post result of Wins/Losses. 

 

I thought the thread was about the imbalances that current MM method creates.  I didn't think the thread was about rigged/not-rigged.  Those are two completely different arguments/discussions.

RidesAPaleHorse #62 Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:23 AM

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I don't know how many games I have played where I am the only tank with over 1000 damage.  Even when I am not the top tier, it seems like I am the only one producing.  I know I'm not the best, but sometimes it seems like the only reason I was in the game was to balance my team and give them a chance.  Then the next match I'm on the other side and we steamroll over the other team, clean sweep or 1-2 lost on our team.

 

Please.  Not sure how to make MM better, but I do know WR is not always a measure of how the tankers is.


And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Revelation 6:8

 

 


BobboEvans #63 Posted 31 March 2017 - 02:59 PM

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View PostBellatormonk, on 30 March 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

I have a challenge for both sides of the argument (MM is rigged/not rigged).

 

-Play 20 battles, same tier (say T7), non-Supremacy, within the same 1-2 hour time slot.

 

-10 battles play as you usually would

-10 battles completely AFK (no moving the tank then AFKing).

-Post result of Wins/Losses. 

Actually, you don't need to afk.  There's plenty of statistical data on afk's.  Just look at the stats for one of the infamous bots.  Win rate is in the low 30%.  It's pretty consistent for bots.


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BobboEvans #64 Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:04 PM

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View PostRidesAPaleHorse, on 31 March 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

I don't know how many games I have played where I am the only tank with over 1000 damage.  Even when I am not the top tier, it seems like I am the only one producing.  I know I'm not the best, but sometimes it seems like the only reason I was in the game was to balance my team and give them a chance.  Then the next match I'm on the other side and we steamroll over the other team, clean sweep or 1-2 lost on our team.

 

Please.  Not sure how to make MM better, but I do know WR is not always a measure of how the tankers is.

What!???  Win rate is ABSOLUTELY a measure of how good the tanker is relative to other tankers.  Explain that statement.  You really think some players get teamed with all good players over 1000 games while others get teamed with all bad players over 1000 games?  Complete bunk.     


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CA_vampire #65 Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:24 PM

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View PostChipthed0g, on 09 March 2017 - 12:48 AM, said:

Simple:

 

WG FIx the Damn MM mechanics asap. Is driving good people NUTZ.

 

 NOt only the IS spam is bad but the POTATO pile in one side is outrageous either green or red. 

 

Each loss is with 6 (or 5 if you are platooned) sub 50% WR players that play high tiers as if they were playing Tier 1

 

Each win is a steam roll.

 

Rare games are now those until the last shoot and now we can't even help a potato while alone. 

 

Game is beyond new lines, gadgets, prize tanks, etc. 

 

Balance players based in their Tier WR at least between red and green. Please.

 

 

 

I agree!

 

Here is a simple solution: 

 

1. Create three categories of players: good, bad, average. This can be hidden. 

2. Choose the same number from each category for green and red. 

 

It is also simple how to create the (hidden) categories. Everyone with less than 2000 games or less than 45% WR is "bad". Everone with over 52% WR is good. Everyone between 45% and 52% is average. 



Kiser_Sosei #66 Posted 31 March 2017 - 04:38 PM

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MM is Not Random. So please stop repeating this over and over. 

Yes we all have the same MM but its not random. FYI No tin foil hat needed. 

Two confirmed reasons why. 

1. Honeymoon period for tanks. You or another player could be on a honeymoon game. - Thus not random.

2. WG states they "Make it Challenging" - ANY manipulation no matter how small negates randomness. 

3. On a side note a computer algorithm can not ever be pure random. 


Is MM rigged? Short answer YES

Is it rigged just against you? NO


WG makes money by providing said challenge. It is working as indented. People get frustrated and buy things to try and win. They have made millions from this simple psychological fact. 

Yes skill does help but the game will still challenge you. How? We do not know exactly, MM does make you low tier and then high tier some games and the thing most people do not consider is small RNG nerfs. How many games did you have 8 hits and 3 pens? Was that Radom? Probably not, Frustrating? BINGO. 

But you must come to terms with it. All the posts about MM are just an exercise in fruition witch just validates WG making money.  The transient player base does not really care. Why do think WG does spend time not educating the player base? They come, spend $50, and the leave. Why do you think WG is nickel and dimming the game with gimmicks? Why do you think they have frequent "games" WG is not interested in the Pareto Principle for a business model. They are happy with the churn model. 

Me personally I would rather have some sort of "broad" team balancing. The roll or be rolled games are not fun. I hate the WR drop argument. Thats so myopic. Balancing MM would just mean that a unicum would be a 55% instead of a 65%. I would enjoy an educated player base. I would like to see lower prices and more loyalty versus screw them as fast as possible. 

But this most likely would change their business model. Not sure they want to do that. Look at other big games that "listened" to their base. Their games became convoluted and eventually lost popularity (sales). Usually because they made too many changes. I am sure that scares all big game companies. I however feel that WOT and WOTB is in a niche and has the demographic that would work well with catering to their loyal and paying 20%. 

Until then the choice to be at peace with being cannon fodder in a churn game, or not, is entirely up to you. 



RidesAPaleHorse #67 Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

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View PostBobboEvans, on 31 March 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

What!???  Win rate is ABSOLUTELY a measure of how good the tanker is relative to other tankers.  Explain that statement.  You really think some players get teamed with all good players over 1000 games while others get teamed with all bad players over 1000 games?  Complete bunk.     

 

I know you have seen it.  

I look at the history of some high WR players and they have high wr with low number of battles on lower tier vehicles without mastery or top badges in those vehicles.  A skewed win/loss ratio will skew the overall WR.  My WR is low because I was a dumb early player who didn't care and was uneducated.

 
I have too much invested to start over to improve my overall WR.

 

 I admit I am not a great player, but I am not afraid to engage to try to win as a team.  But when I am on a team where I am the bottom player; one tier below the top player on my team; and I end up with more damage and more kills than the top players, there is somthing wrong

 

 

 


And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Revelation 6:8

 

 


BobboEvans #68 Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:06 PM

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View PostRidesAPaleHorse, on 31 March 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

I know you have seen it.  

I look at the history of some high WR players and they have high wr with low number of battles on lower tier vehicles without mastery or top badges in those vehicles.  A skewed win/loss ratio will skew the overall WR.  My WR is low because I was a dumb early player who didn't care and was uneducated.

 
I have too much invested to start over to improve my overall WR.

 

 I admit I am not a great player, but I am not afraid to engage to try to win as a team.  But when I am on a team where I am the bottom player; one tier below the top player on my team; and I end up with more damage and more kills than the top players, there is somthing wrong

 

 

 

Let's look at the facts.  Your overall win rate is 51.27%.  Your 30 day win rate is 52.64%.  Your 69 day win rate is 51.19%.  You recent performance isn't different from your overall.  That win rate relatively be to someone with a 60% win rate over the last 30 days suggests your skill is not as good as theirs.  How can you say that win rate is not representative of the player?


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RidesAPaleHorse #69 Posted 01 April 2017 - 02:03 AM

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View PostBobboEvans, on 31 March 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Let's look at the facts.  Your overall win rate is 51.27%.  Your 30 day win rate is 52.64%.  Your 69 day win rate is 51.19%.  You recent performance isn't different from your overall.  That win rate relatively be to someone with a 60% win rate over the last 30 days suggests your skill is not as good as theirs.  How can you say that win rate is not representative of the player?

 

I'm not saying that WR doesn't reflect the player's competence, but this is math and can be manipulated.  Looking at your history, and the number of Masters, there is no way to say anything but that you know what your doing.  But I have seen players with low number of battles in the majority of his vehicles and based on the math, there is no guarantee that player is as good as his WR.  I've been the same battle and out performed him.  

 

Still something has to be done. If WR is a good reflection of the players skill, then we were doomed in this match. I was the only player over 50% facing 1 player over 60% and 4 players over 50%. And I was a tier 8 TD in a tier 9 match.

IMG_3855.PNG

 


Edited by RidesAPaleHorse, 01 April 2017 - 02:04 AM.

And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Revelation 6:8

 

 


BobboEvans #70 Posted 01 April 2017 - 03:15 PM

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View PostRidesAPaleHorse, on 01 April 2017 - 02:03 AM, said:

 

I'm not saying that WR doesn't reflect the player's competence, but this is math and can be manipulated.  Looking at your history, and the number of Masters, there is no way to say anything but that you know what your doing.  But I have seen players with low number of battles in the majority of his vehicles and based on the math, there is no guarantee that player is as good as his WR.  I've been the same battle and out performed him.  

 

Still something has to be done. If WR is a good reflection of the players skill, then we were doomed in this match. I was the only player over 50% facing 1 player over 60% and 4 players over 50%. And I was a tier 8 TD in a tier 9 match.

IMG_3855.PNG

 

We all have those games.  Now post the game where all your team had 50%+ and red had all 50%-   It balances out.  You can't look at one game.

 

It's not math... it's statistics.  1 or 2 games means nothing.  It's about the long run.  While WR can be manipulated through cheating, I don't see this as a widespread issue.  To say that win rate can be manipulated through MM (or math) is not true.  We all have the same MM and the same player pool.


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Ikusa_Doragon #71 Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:26 PM

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I like the idea putting a tire pump to the maps.

 

I especially like the idea of performance driven tier gates, if you can't run with the Big Dogs you yap with the chihuahuas.

 

But not +2/-2 tiers.



dayton07277 #72 Posted 01 April 2017 - 07:33 PM

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View PostRidesAPaleHorse, on 31 March 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

 

I'm not saying that WR doesn't reflect the player's competence, but this is math and can be manipulated.  Looking at your history, and the number of Masters, there is no way to say anything but that you know what your doing.  But I have seen players with low number of battles in the majority of his vehicles and based on the math, there is no guarantee that player is as good as his WR.  I've been the same battle and out performed him.  

 

Still something has to be done. If WR is a good reflection of the players skill, then we were doomed in this match. I was the only player over 50% facing 1 player over 60% and 4 players over 50%. And I was a tier 8 TD in a tier 9 match.

IMG_3855.PNG

 

Your 41.96 player played better than most of the red team in damage.. So....MM is the same for everyone..also you had a close to 50% player do hardly nothing.


Edited by dayton07277, 01 April 2017 - 07:35 PM.


thejoker671 #73 Posted 01 May 2017 - 12:03 AM

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How do you get on the good list for matchmaker? I just played a game that 5 players got 0 damage, we lost 7-0, surprise? I have more games that have bad teams than good. There has to be a list but I'm not paying to get on it. Is that the key? Pay to win?

dayton07277 #74 Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:30 PM

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View Postthejoker671, on 30 April 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

How do you get on the good list for matchmaker? I just played a game that 5 players got 0 damage, we lost 7-0, surprise? I have more games that have bad teams than good. There has to be a list but I'm not paying to get on it. Is that the key? Pay to win?

Ya don't 



thejoker671 #75 Posted 01 May 2017 - 11:13 PM

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View Postdayton07277, on 01 May 2017 - 08:30 PM, said:

Ya don't 

 

Apparently I can't get on the good list, 5-10 losses in a row day after day. The matchmaker is jacked.

 



dayton07277 #76 Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:36 PM

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View Postthejoker671, on 01 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Apparently I can't get on the good list, 5-10 losses in a row day after day. The matchmaker is jacked.

 

There is no list..MM is weighted just like almost all PvP with MM.. You win so many and then put on a less experienced team. the trick is to win more times when on this MM.. Its the same for everyone... A good rule of thumb..you have to do atleast your tanks HP pool (or more) just to have a chance to win..if you're not doing that drop down tiers till you do..



kimiwantsit #77 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:37 PM

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View Postdayton07277, on 02 May 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

There is no list..MM is weighted just like almost all PvP with MM.. You win so many and then put on a less experienced team. the trick is to win more times when on this MM.. Its the same for everyone... A good rule of thumb..you have to do atleast your tanks HP pool (or more) just to have a chance to win..if you're not doing that drop down tiers till you do..

Seems logical. I seem to get a lower battle count from teams that I lose on more times than not.(way more)  :)



gffcom #78 Posted 02 May 2017 - 07:41 PM

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Don't worry. The new pay to win model should help

                                                         

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thejoker671 #79 Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:11 PM

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View Postdayton07277, on 02 May 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

There is no list..MM is weighted just like almost all PvP with MM.. You win so many and then put on a less experienced team. the trick is to win more times when on this MM.. Its the same for everyone... A good rule of thumb..you have to do atleast your tanks HP pool (or more) just to have a chance to win..if you're not doing that drop down tiers till you do..

You say it's the same for everyone, I disagree, just because it's repeated over and over doesn't make it true. 






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