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Petition for +2/-2 AGAIN


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WipWapJaws #21 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:07 AM

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Count me in. I'm all for the return of +2-2 mm

Vino4Ever #22 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:25 AM

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Not another thread on this. 
 
Why do people keep pushing the "I want to monkey stomp tier VIII in my tier X" agenda?

Edited by Vino4Ever, 08 April 2017 - 10:34 AM.

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Rocket_From_The_Tomb #23 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:27 AM

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Pathetic, no skill, weak sticks love -1/+1. Same peeps that go Town.



BootlegTampico #24 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:34 AM

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View PostMayjaplaya, on 08 April 2017 - 05:06 AM, said:

I'll repeat what I said in the last big +2/-2 petition thread because nobody really addressed it.

 

So many people go "herp derp, I can beat +2 heavies with mediums all the time", but what if you switched the tank classes? What the heck can a VK30.01 H do against a Comet? A VK36.01 H do against a T-54 mod. 1? A Tiger II against a 140/T-62A? In each case, you're too slow to flank, you have, arguably, and even worse armor profile, and the 140/T-62A have more health and a DPM advantage of something like 70% over the Tiger II. Even if you play smart, deal your damage, and conserve all of your health, if the rest of your team are idiots and die, and you're left 1v1 or worse, the medium can just yolo at you, around your cover or whatever so "tactics" like hull-down and sidescraping are negated, autoaim into center mass, butter your "armor" and outtrade you. Unless the medium is botting, afk, or so stupid they sit in the open and shoot at some autobounce area on purpose, you'll have no chance.

 

You only need a small WR advantage to dominate [edited]heavies 2 tiers higher in a strong light or medium like the VK28.01, Cromwell (B), Comet, Type 62, LTTB, etc. But if you're in the [edited]heavies like the ones I mentioned above, like I said, the only way you can beat a strong medium 2 tiers higher, even if you are a unicum, is if they are botting, afk, or are so stupid they sit in the open and shoot at some autobounce area on purpose.

 

Again, I don't really care either way, but I'd rather not see yet another +2/-2 circlejerk with nobody bringing any counterpoints.

It teaches the support role effectively, as well as bringing tanks with excellent pen and not much else into the limelight.

View PostVino4Ever, on 08 April 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Not another thread on this. 
 
Why do people keep pushing the I want to monkey stomp tier VIII in my tier X?

Well, since all the "monkey stompers" played worse in 2/2 MM, maybe we care about evening the odds. 


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Chariot_Solace #25 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:40 AM

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Makes balanced tanks next to useless again? Hell no.

It would render all of the "re-balancing" they have done to all the tanks useless as well, so it's not gonna happen.


Edited by Chariot_Solace, 08 April 2017 - 10:42 AM.

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Vino4Ever #26 Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:58 AM

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View Post_Shawk, on 08 April 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

It teaches the support role effectively, as well as bringing tanks with excellent pen and not much else into the limelight.

Well, since all the "monkey stompers" played worse in 2/2 MM, maybe we care about evening the odds. 

 

​Which odds?  The odds of being 2 tiers higher than reds? 

 

I'm sure they played worse because they were low tier.  Now they just want their chance to do the stomping.

 

Proponents say that you learn more being low tier in a -/+2.  What you learn is that being -2 sucks and your options are to hide or die quick.  You also learn that it is better to advance tiers as quickly as possible so you can always be high tier.


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acrisis #27 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:06 AM

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No.

 

The current uneducated masses can't handle it and will not stand for it. There's already a number of people who AFK / Yolo / Suicide because of " unfair matchmaking " because they're -1 and see a bunch of armor and firepower on the enemy team. 

 

I think we have a few other things the majority of people would like to see improved or implemented in game, well before debating when, if, how 2MM could come back. 


 

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ARC_FIVES #28 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:33 AM

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View PostChariot_Solace, on 08 April 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

Makes balanced tanks next to useless again? Hell no.

It would render all of the "re-balancing" they have done to all the tanks useless as well, so it's not gonna happen.

 

Your just like bushka you think tanks will be irrelevant again they won't. Each tanka has its own role if your smart and know how to play the gam 

 

 

 


ARC_FIVES #29 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:36 AM

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Fave it the only reason you guys don't want 2/2 is because it would kill your stats because you don't know how to play your tank role

 

 

 


ARC_FIVES #30 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:37 AM

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View PostVino4Ever, on 08 April 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Not another thread on this. 
 
Why do people keep pushing the "I want to monkey stomp tier VIII in my tier X" agenda?

I like being 2 tiers lower. You see I learn from being 2 tiers lower and I know how to play my tanks role correctly 


 

 

 


Kikoscttkr #31 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:37 AM

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+/-2 isn't good for WOTB bottom line after careful analysis by WOTB..so no amount of petitions is gonna change that..

ARC_FIVES #32 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:40 AM

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View PostCA_vampire, on 08 April 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

No. Bad idea. 

 

Like I said people don't wanna be 2 tiers down because they can't do anything. You can if your smart and know how to play. It doesn't take much. Just watch some youtubers like concep hawkzzy anon Anath and others that are good 

 

 

 


Vino4Ever #33 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:47 AM

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View Post_GhostHuey, on 08 April 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

I like being 2 tiers lower. You see I learn from being 2 tiers lower and I know how to play my tanks role correctly 

 

So, serious question for you: 

How often do you "Fail-toon" or go to a training room and fight 2 tiers lower so you can get your practice and learning in?


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BootlegTampico #34 Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:59 AM

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View PostVino4Ever, on 08 April 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

 

So, serious question for you: 

How often do you "Fail-toon" or go to a training room and fight 2 tiers lower so you can get your practice and learning in?

 

Probably at about the same rate you grind credits and XP in them. Don't equalize TRs and Random Matches. 

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Vino4Ever #35 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:04 PM

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View Post_Shawk, on 08 April 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

 

Probably at about the same rate you grind credits and XP in them. Don't equalize TRs and Random Matches. 

 

OK forget about training rooms, that seems to be the standard answer - "you don't get the same XP".  Although my question is about all the fabulous LEARNING that happens when you are two tiers lower, which is what training rooms are for right? 

I notice that you did not address the first part of the question:  How many times to you "Fail-toon" to get your -2 practice and learning in?


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BootlegTampico #36 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:10 PM

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View PostVino4Ever, on 08 April 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

 

OK forget about training rooms, that seems to be the standard answer - "you don't get the same XP".  Although my question is about all the fabulous LEARNING that happens when you are two tiers lower, which is what training rooms are for right? 

I notice that you did not address the first part of the question:  How many times to you "Fail-toon" to get your -2 practice and learning in?

Never! I played thousands of games to train. I'd happily still play my KV-1, Bromwell, Victory, T34, and others +2 and -2. I mean, if I had to failtoon games to prove a point, so be it, but realistically you're talking to someone with tons of experience. I'm not afraid of being -2. If the noobs can't adapt, then what's the difference? They're just as useless today as they were a year ago.

 


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Salty_the_Clown #37 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:10 PM

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no

r4zrbl4de #38 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:12 PM

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BootlegTampico #39 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:15 PM

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View Post__Crusader6__, on 07 April 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

 

Patently false.

   What was balanced?  The IS-6 and KV-5 got new guns, and the other pref mm tanks got some credit co-efficient bumps.

The new French tanks would be great in +/-2 as they have awesome pen.

  The US Autoloaders in 7-8 would be the only ones who massively suffer - and it would be easily solved by giving them the pen of their non-autoloader brothers.

 

 

  In +/-2 tiers 5-6 where skill gates -- people learned the game, or generally did not advance.   Yes it was tough, I ground thru those stock as a noob pre-forum days in all the available lines at the time - but eventually I started to learn.

   These days you see a T34-85 trying to fight an IS or Black Prince face on - and they wonder why they lose...

Sure a good player can easily load some prammo, track them and have their way -- but most don't have a clue as they have never needed to be second line tanks.

 

 Secondly +/-1 is so much easier, pretty much any decent player has seen their stats jump -- why, well your not -2 ever.

 

The loss of +/-2 has seen real team work slide off the table, before meds could spot - heavies would roll up - and meds would try to probe edges.

    Down 2 in a med, then be an annoyance -- the heavies did the best with the loss, as now a new slew of potatoes never needed to learn to play second line -- they could just trade shots.

 

Originally I was a +/-1 supporter, I mostly played tier 8+, but still thought it was better.   However looking at the results of the last year, I can see a massive skill drop in the player base, and it is making the game a lot less fun.   No one enjoys a total steamroll, and that is more often than naught what +/-1 gives us.  But I guess being able to totally seal club in tier 5-6 is important to some folks.

      

 

 

Cru nails it here. 

If sealclubbing in tier 5/6 is more important to you than balanced matches, I guess have it your way.


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Forgotten_Fox #40 Posted 08 April 2017 - 12:24 PM

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You forgot that there are many new tanks since +2/-2 was implemented. That would mean we would need to bring back the complex premium MM chart, and buff/nerf prems, making ppl mad, and causing WG to have to give refunds, ect. I like MM how it is actually. Id prefer not to play a stock t28 against a tier X maus, with moistmutt (not naming and shaming if he doesn't exist) on my team in a tier X just shooting the wall. At that point, RNG decides MM, and MM decides WR. Now Im not against +2/-2 MM, but if it is re-implemented, we need a new tutorial to teach players how to play, and we need new advertising (see my post HERE) to intrest players in doing good rather that ramming and doing jumps.

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