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The Den - Chat - April 14, 2017


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CC_Sly #1 Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:35 PM

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Greetings Tankers. The great Dogface has ordered me to put up another "Den" post so that we all can converse!

 

This week's topic is Chat! Come with your ideas ready!

 

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Dogface2356 #2 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:01 PM

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Ok Wardogs, follow the rules and lets chat about chat, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Dark_Magician_Girl #3 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:01 PM

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DMG’s Response to Chat Changes

 

First off, I am so very happy that you are willing to open up the floor on this topic.  I, and many others appreciate the open mindedness from the new staff to sit down and have a discussion with the playerbase.  Alright, let’s talk about talking.

 

In the chat changes there were two major aspects: the removal of global and the removal of dead chat.  After much thought (coming from a supporter of both chats originally), my position is that I would want dead chat back and still keep global chat removed.

 

Provided is a pros/cons format for each main change:

 

Global chat:

 

Pros:

  • Prevents allied, toxic players from ruining gameplay experience by revealing positions (i.e Tyrannosaurus Rex707 → let’s not cut corners here, you know this infamous person I’m referring to… ask Crusader6 for more detailed information).

    • In the attempt to make matches more competitive, not being able to reveal allied positions keeps the match more competitive and creates the draw scenario which is favorable to those players who would be losing with an AFK player.

    • Note that the above does not directly encourage AFK players

Cons:

  • Tankers are not able to greet each other before battle over global chat.

    • While I do miss the o7’s a bit, I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons.

    • Players can still PM each other congratulatory messages post-match.

 

Dead Chat:

 

Pros:

  • Still able to help team

    • Players on your team can reveal crucial information to win games.

  • Before people say dead tanks can’t talk, just keep in mind we have batmobiles running around and HP bars.  Let’s not use “realism” as an argument here.

 

Cons:

  • Increased toxicity

    • Players spew hate

    • Unfortunate truth: Sometimes necessary and doesn’t change outcomes.
       

 

Analysis → The Hard Reality of Chat (MUST READ):

 

The main goal of removing the chat was to reduce toxicity, however while on the surface it looks like it is better in game, nothing has actually changed in terms of player interactions.  Why?  Because the removal of chat now sublimates frustrations into PM’s.  Hate is still spewed regardless.  I speak for many when I argue to let people have their rage in-game.

 

The main point here is that people will still find a way to spew hate, and there is no effective way to stop that unless you remove chat altogether (WHICH I DO NOT ENDORSE).  This game is rated T for teen for a reason, and if you can’t take being called an idiot once in awhile (or frequently if you’re 45%) you just need to uninstall.  

 

Remember WG staff, there are always new customers, so to put this in a real dollars translation I don’t think the loss of the few players because of chat toxicity outweighs the flood of new, ignorant players you get, ready and willing to spend cash on unknowingly garbage vehicles like the Panther M10.  Isn’t that an enticing venture?

 

Another point, trolls with no idea about world issues will still spam political messages, among other things, they don’t understand.  These trolls will still engage in spammy behavior simply because there is an audience.  Someone is available to spam at, so it will happen.  Just because you reduced the number of people that see these kinds of messages from 14 to 7 does not prevent said behavior.

 

Bring back dead chat… it’s simply a trade off.  Toxicity in game or toxicity out of game.  Just keep in mind when you review these responses you should also perform forum searches about the number of unique threads made in support of chat being brought back (i.e Let’s Step Into the Light Together) vs. unique threads that stated approval of the current chat mechanics.  The disparity in amount is quite astonishing.  Additionally, what is increasingly important is to notice that a significant amount of advocates for the chat changes that have changed their views because they have felt the game felt “dead” or in a “twilight zone.”

 

Conclusion:

 

By all means, keep global chat off, I want to approach a perfectly competitive scenario and removal of global chat helps approach that in an absolute, binary manner whereas dead chat has a large grey area and is not absolute in its effectiveness for competitive scenarios.

 

Baby don’t you know that I’m toxic?

Dark_Magician_Girl

 

*Typed in Google Docs, apologize for spacing formatting errors in translation.

 

Edited by Dark_Magician_Girl, 14 April 2017 - 09:09 PM.


PinDadNW #4 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:02 PM

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I play more games now since I exit right away after I die. There is no way to help my team by watching, so I may as well start again. This is also cuts down on rage, as I don't have time to think/comment about how bad the team was.

Proud DD Raider [RAIDR]


olddatsunfan #5 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:05 PM

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WG has data on which players have been "good" during a period, we have gotten 5 days of premium certificates :)!  Why not just re implement chat, but, exclude those that have gotten chat bans or get chat bans?

Dogface2356 #6 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:07 PM

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View PostDark_Magician_Girl, on 14 April 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

DMG’s Response to Chat Changes

 

First off, I am so very happy that you are willing to open up the floor on this topic.  I, and many others appreciate the open mindedness from the new staff to sit down and have a discussion with the playerbase.  Alright, let’s talk about talking.

 

In the chat changes there were two major aspects: the removal of global and the removal of dead chat.  After much thought (coming from a supporter of both chats originally), my position is that I would want dead chat back and still keep global chat removed.

 

Provided is a pros/cons format for each main change:

 

Global chat:

 

Pros:

  • Prevents allied, toxic players from ruining gameplay experience by revealing positions (i.e Tyrannosaurus Rex707 → let’s not cut corners here, you know this infamous person I’m referring to… ask Crusader6 for more detailed information).

    • In the attempt to make matches more competitive, not being able to reveal allied positions keeps the match more competitive and creates the draw scenario which is favorable to those players who would be losing with an AFK player.

    • Note that the above does not directly encourage AFK players

Cons:

  • Tankers are not able to greet each other before battle over global chat.

    • While I do miss the o7’s a bit, I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons.

    • Players can still PM each other congratulatory messages post-match.

 

Dead Chat:

 

Pros:

  • Still able to help team

    • Players on your team can reveal crucial information to win games.

  • Before people say dead tanks can’t talk, just keep in mind we have batmobiles running around and HP bars.  Let’s not use “realism” as an argument here.

 

Cons:

  • Increased toxicity

    • Players spew hate

    • Unfortunate truth: Sometimes necessary and doesn’t change outcomes.
       

 

Analysis → The Hard Reality of Chat (MUST READ):

 

The main goal of removing the chat was to reduce toxicity, however while on the surface it looks like it is better in game, nothing has actually changed in terms of player interactions.  Why?  Because the removal of chat now sublimates frustrations into PM’s.  Hate is still spewed regardless.  I speak for many when I argue to let people have their rage in-game.

 

The main point here is that people will still find a way to spew hate, and there is no effective way to stop that unless you remove chat altogether (WHICH I DO NOT ENDORSE).  This game is rated T for teen for a reason, and if you can’t take being called an idiot once in awhile (or frequently if you’re 45%) you just need to uninstall.  

 

Remember WG staff, there are always new customers, so to put this in a real dollars translation I don’t think the loss of the few players because of chat toxicity outweighs the flood of new, ignorant players you get, ready and willing to spend cash on unknowingly garbage vehicles like the Panther M10.  Isn’t that an enticing venture?

 

Another point, trolls with no idea about world issues will still spam political messages, among other things, they don’t understand.  These trolls will still engage in spammy behavior simply because there is an audience.  Someone is available to spam at, so it will happen.  Just because you reduced the number of people that see these kinds of messages from 14 to 7 does not prevent said behavior.

 

Bring back dead chat… it’s simply a trade off.  Toxicity in game or toxicity out of game.  Just keep in mind when you review these responses you should also perform forum searches about the number of unique threads made in support of chat being brought back (i.e Let’s Step Into the Light Together) vs. unique threads that stated approval of the current chat mechanics.  The disparity in amount is quite astonishing.  Additionally, what is increasingly important is to notice that a significant amount of advocates for the chat changes that have changed their views because they have felt the game felt “dead” or in a “twilight zone.”

 

Conclusion:

 

By all means, keep global chat off, I want to approach a perfectly competitive scenario and removal of global chat helps approach that in an absolute, binary manner whereas dead chat has a large grey area and is not absolute in its effectiveness for competitive scenarios.

 

Baby don’t you know that I’m toxic?

Dark_Magician_Girl

 

 

Valid points, what if there were call outs (emojis, etc) that would allow you to "talk" to the enemy team? For those reading this I am not saying that this is coming to the game, generally, want to know.

 

 



LoweExpectations #7 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:07 PM

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If you have ever had a chat ban, you shouldn't be allowed to use the dead chat.

 

 

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acrisis #8 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:08 PM

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I feel there are a small group of toxic people who have spoiled the fun and social aspects for everyone, that we all fell in love with as part of the game; which has prompted WG to kill some kinds of chat, because it hasn’t adequately tackled serial abuse and rage … and probably got too many complaints because of lack of handing out chat bans to those who deserve it. 

 

I have previously proposed that these people who are serial chat abusers, get progressively longer TOTAL chat bans, where they cannot chat in game AT ALL, no friends chat, no clan chat, no platoon chat. Something which I think personally would kill the serial abuse from some individuals and clans within a matter of weeks, because people don’t want to be stuck without clan, friends & platoon chat. 

 

For people with young kids or adults who want their silence in game, WG could give them a couple toggle preference options:

Global chat mute (on/off)

Dead Team Member chat mute (on/off)

Garage chat mute (on/off) 

 

So that other players still can say  o7 clan, o7 player, GG, … 

 

I for one hate the fact that I cannot say anything to my own team after death, like who to focus fire, where I got hit from, con’t count on x in the back he’s AFK, move in campers go help K, what to do better next time, …

 

The other thing that throws me for a loop is the chat button layout. For days I was talking in platoon chat instead of team chat. Now that I have gotten used to team chat on the right, I struggle with training rooms where it is world chat on the right.  And don’t even ask me where enter/return goes any more. Too many bugs and UI inconsistencies over time. 

 

Now I fully admit I’m not perfect when it comes to chat. There’s been a few instances where a troll got to me (I actively try to work on that) but the lack of chat just makes me even more frustrated when I can’t say  “no help” “ camping is useless “ “ get hill next time “ … before I move on to the next game. Rinse repeat and it has a cumulative effect on my mood, with the current decrease in team quality … or total absence thereof. 

 

It is a team game, if the team blew it … they just have to hear it. Otherwise WG can make this game a FPS where I’m 1 + 6 bots vs 7 bots. 

 

And the other thing with muted dead people is, it just shifts to the garage. Both positive and negative. 

 

People are frustrated with a lot of things in game, and chat restrictions that only a minority may have asked for, just add to game frustrations. 

 

And other chat feature requests have gone ignored. 

 

Friends chat only. (On/off) 

 

A few extra secs at the start of a battle to better formulate a plan, or reason why, instead of just 4 secs and there’s still people loading in ten secs late.

 

A a couple secs at the end to say thanks team, instead of firing the last round and not even being able to tell your team well done, thanks for the recovery. If I’m in a slow tank or its a done deal and I’m not going to kill the last guy; I try to making a point or two before the battle end. 

 

Long story short: 

 

Personally, I would like to see Team Chat fully reinstated, start to finish of the battle.  

 

And, I support the notion mentioned in the forum to open global chat up for 15 secs. 


 

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Dogface2356 #9 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:11 PM

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View Postolddatsunfan, on 14 April 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

WG has data on which players have been "good" during a period, we have gotten 5 days of premium certificates :)!  Why not just re implement chat, but, exclude those that have gotten chat bans or get chat bans?

 

Those players are already excluded from the "good" list already. Instituting chat and banning them does not appear to curb the toxic nature of some players. 

Dark_Magician_Girl #10 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:11 PM

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View PostDogface2356, on 14 April 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

Valid points, what if there were call outs (emojis, etc) that would allow you to "talk" to the enemy team? For those reading this I am not saying that this is coming to the game, generally, want to know.

 

 

 

People largely give o7's to specific players and clans as a sign of respect/friendliness, so there would be a way to direct that emoji at a certain player or clan.


Edited by Dark_Magician_Girl, 14 April 2017 - 09:16 PM.


Dogface2356 #11 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:14 PM

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Thanks for the clear and concise feedback. Those who have been giving me one liner's please put more thought into that or elaborate off of another person post. 

razernaga2014 #12 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:17 PM

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Although I really dislike the death chat changes, I can understand where WG is basing the decision on.  

 

However it is the global chat changes that irk me.  Specifically, the start of battle.  I've seen a good lot of players that I would have called out (i.e. spud clan, frequent platoons, forumers, etc) in previous chat.  With the complete global chat mute, saying even a simple o7 is impossible.

 

 

If I could change one thing about the chat in wotb, it would be to allow 15-20 seconds after the battle starts where global chat is allowed.  This would allow people to get their o7s off, tell quick jokes with a clanmate or in-game friend, and get to tanking.


IS-7 «» FV4202 «» Obj. 140 «» T-54 «» M103 «» Centurion 7/1 «»​ Type 59 «»​ IS-3D «» T32 «» T28 Prot. «» RU251 «» T6 Dracula «»​ Tankenstein «»​ SU-122-44 «»​ T25 AT «» T20 «» Comet «» KV-3 «» SU-100M1 «» Tiger I «» VK 32.02 D «» MT-25 «» Cromwell B «»​ T-25 «» SU-85i «»​ Ki-Ni «» Tetrarch «» T-2 Light

How To Crossfire

[SPUD] and [SPUDX] Local Spudist Pastor

 


Dogface2356 #13 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:18 PM

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View Postacrisis, on 14 April 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

I feel there are a small group of toxic people who have spoiled the fun and social aspects for everyone, that we all fell in love with as part of the game; which has prompted WG to kill some kinds of chat, because it hasn’t adequately tackled serial abuse and rage … and probably got too many complaints because of lack of handing out chat bans to those who deserve it. 

 

I have previously proposed that these people who are serial chat abusers, get progressively longer TOTAL chat bans, where they cannot chat in game AT ALL, no friends chat, no clan chat, no platoon chat. Something which I think personally would kill the serial abuse from some individuals and clans within a matter of weeks, because people don’t want to be stuck without clan, friends & platoon chat. 

 

For people with young kids or adults who want their silence in game, WG could give them a couple toggle preference options:

Global chat mute (on/off)

Dead Team Member chat mute (on/off)

Garage chat mute (on/off) 

 

So that other players still can say  o7 clan, o7 player, GG, … 

 

I for one hate the fact that I cannot say anything to my own team after death, like who to focus fire, where I got hit from, con’t count on x in the back he’s AFK, move in campers go help K, what to do better next time, …

 

The other thing that throws me for a loop is the chat button layout. For days I was talking in platoon chat instead of team chat. Now that I have gotten used to team chat on the right, I struggle with training rooms where it is world chat on the right.  And don’t even ask me where enter/return goes any more. Too many bugs and UI inconsistencies over time. 

 

Now I fully admit I’m not perfect when it comes to chat. There’s been a few instances where a troll got to me (I actively try to work on that) but the lack of chat just makes me even more frustrated when I can’t say  “no help” “ camping is useless “ “ get hill next time “ … before I move on to the next game. Rinse repeat and it has a cumulative effect on my mood, with the current decrease in team quality … or total absence thereof. 

 

It is a team game, if the team blew it … they just have to hear it. Otherwise WG can make this game a FPS where I’m 1 + 6 bots vs 7 bots. 

 

And the other thing with muted dead people is, it just shifts to the garage. Both positive and negative. 

 

People are frustrated with a lot of things in game, and chat restrictions that only a minority may have asked for, just add to game frustrations. 

 

And other chat feature requests have gone ignored. 

 

Friends chat only. (On/off) 

 

A few extra secs at the start of a battle to better formulate a plan, or reason why, instead of just 4 secs and there’s still people loading in ten secs late.

 

A a couple secs at the end to say thanks team, instead of firing the last round and not even being able to tell your team well done, thanks for the recovery. If I’m in a slow tank or its a done deal and I’m not going to kill the last guy; I try to making a point or two before the battle end. 

 

Long story short: 

 

Personally, I would like to see Team Chat fully reinstated, start to finish of the battle.  

 

And, I support the notion mentioned in the forum to open global chat up for 15 secs. 

 

When I started on Blitz, even I wondered why there were not chat on/off buttons. Personally I like chat in games, but with some of the stuff I have seen before chat was changed turned my already grey hair, grayer. 

PinDadNW #14 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:19 PM

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A global o7 emoji would be appreciated. I have noticed a dramatic decrease in toxic in-game and post-game chat. Most noticeably in-game post-death chat from team mates who are upset. Really, what was the percentage of helpful advice from a dead guy to useful information? It was a bad ratio.

 

That said, some way to communicate with your team post-death would be helpful. Perhaps a way to flag a location on the map, give a direction, indicate a red player to focus fire, etc. Something other than free text chat.


Proud DD Raider [RAIDR]


Dogface2356 #15 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:21 PM

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Question, how realistic is a "Dead" tank communicating to their team after the fact? 

PinDadNW #16 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:22 PM

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I also really like Acrisis's idea of providing options for on/off buttons to mute whatever you don't want to read (or have your kids read). It would be important to have an indicator so you are not wasting your breathe on folks who can't "hear" you.

Proud DD Raider [RAIDR]


Dogface2356 #17 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

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View PostPinDadNW, on 14 April 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

I also really like Acrisis's idea of providing options for on/off buttons to mute whatever you don't want to read (or have your kids read). It would be important to have an indicator so you are not wasting your breathe on folks who can't "hear" you.

 

​Yeah I agree 100% on this one. 

razernaga2014 #18 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

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I see that some ideas are being floated around for a sort of emote system.  I feel that this would be best suited for the entire battle, but wouldn't be that personal.  With SPUD clan, we have a semi-popular greeting as follows...

 

Potato1- "Talk to me Goose!"

Potato2- "Don't do it, Mav!"

 

Emotes can't convey that. 

 

If I had to present some emotes ideas, I'd say have "gg" and "angry face" to start.  Also have limits on how frequently this can happen.


Edited by razernaga2014, 14 April 2017 - 09:24 PM.

IS-7 «» FV4202 «» Obj. 140 «» T-54 «» M103 «» Centurion 7/1 «»​ Type 59 «»​ IS-3D «» T32 «» T28 Prot. «» RU251 «» T6 Dracula «»​ Tankenstein «»​ SU-122-44 «»​ T25 AT «» T20 «» Comet «» KV-3 «» SU-100M1 «» Tiger I «» VK 32.02 D «» MT-25 «» Cromwell B «»​ T-25 «» SU-85i «»​ Ki-Ni «» Tetrarch «» T-2 Light

How To Crossfire

[SPUD] and [SPUDX] Local Spudist Pastor

 


Dark_Magician_Girl #19 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

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View PostDogface2356, on 14 April 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Thanks for the clear and concise feedback. Those who have been giving me one liner's please put more thought into that or elaborate off of another person post. 

 

Oh and something that I forgot to add and I think should be discussed here as well as part of the chat changes is the idea of "who should be allowed to talk at the beginning of the game."  It is quite a controversial topic on forum and has been discussed in various shapes and sizes.  In order to incentivize improvement and drive good gameplay quality that acrisis mentioned, I think this should be seriously considered.  I know this makes chatting an exclusive privilege, but I think most discussions about chat anyway end up going in this direction and it should be thought about.

 

It appears exclusive yes, but I think most here can agree that games would be more competitive if certain players were not allowed to use chat in the beginning and drag half the team in their kamikaze charge into the Middleburg cap.  In the end, most of these issues (including the Goose tales event) come down to the root of gameplay quality decreasing because of underperforming tankers.  I think the community wants a way to minimize the negative impact of under performers.  

 

Just a thought to be considered.


Edited by Dark_Magician_Girl, 14 April 2017 - 09:29 PM.


r4zrbl4de #20 Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:24 PM

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I'd really like if post-death chat was added back. Chat with the enemy team is fine right now; I can't salute any people I know on the other team, but that's not that big of an issue. I do, however, have an issue with being dead and not being able to talk. I've been in several games (only several, because I haven't been playing much) where my team could have won the game if I could have told them what to do. That might sound kind of bossy, but I could have told my remaining teammates to focus on the one-shot enemy rather than the enemy with full health. It's really upsetting knowing you could help, but can't. I've never minded players raging after death; bad words are blocked anyway. And if someone is actually mad, they'll take it to a PM after the battle anyway, so there's no point in preventing their talking for a very short amount of time.

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