18 replies to this topic

[FlammeumDraco333]

Since update 3.8 dropped, everyone is pissed about the timers, spare parts, nerfs to certain equipment, etc. But one thing that really pissed me off was what WG did to spotting equipment, such as optics, binocs, and camo net.

 

Before update 3.8, many medium tanks didn't mount coated optics, and heavy tanks NEVER equipped them. Meds usually used rammer, vents, and when available, VSTABs. Probably only about 25% of equipped mediums ran coated optics, as afterall, the scouting role befell the light tanks. This meant light tanks that mounted coated optics had a tangible advantage over their medium tank counterparts, as they could provide vision for the team and out-spot their opponents, which made up for their typically weaker guns. Sniping tank destroyers with no armour, like the Nashorn, Borsig, or Grille 15 used to have monster view range and concealment when running binocs and a camo net, which made up for their non-existent armour and usually mediocre mobility. 

 

Then 3.8 hit. Now, all tanks that were fully equipped pre-3.8 have the same loadout options: rammer or increased pen, decreased module damage or decreased crew damage, optics or camo net. This means that ALL tanks are almost required to mount optics, meaning the view range advantage that lights once had is only by 5-10m at most, and since mediums have better firepower and usually better protection, mediums can now fulfill the scouting role just as well as their light tank counterparts, and are not as screwed if they get caught in the open. Furthermore, heavy tanks, now that they all run optics, can spot for themselves, making sneaking up on them or flanking them extremely risky, or even impossible.

 

What about paper TDs? Well, now, paper TDs can either mount optics, and have the same view range as everyone else, or mount camo-net, and have garbage view range and good concealment. This means TDs will NEED to have others spot for them (which never happens, because teams have fewer braincells between them than a single celled organism) if they want to run camo-net, or if they run optics, they will be completely obliterated when they attempt to snipe, as their camo ratings will be mediocre at best. This is a huge nerf to both light tanks and sniping TDs, while buffing mediums and heavies considerably.

 

Now, while I do agree that some lights (coughLTTBcoughT-54LTcough) and some TDs (coughBorsigcough) do need re-evaluation, taking a blanket nerf hammer to ALL sniping tanks and light tanks is completely moronic. Now, some underpowered lights, like the T21 or T71 are simply useless, as their scouting ability was the main advantage they had over mediums. Furthermore, some sniping tanks, like the Nashorn (or to a degree, the Sturer Emil) are absolutely wrecked, and now find it difficult to survive on the battlefield, let alone thrive.

 

Now how do we fix this? Well, it is a really bloody simple fix, that requires only a couple small changes to the equipment choices available.

 

First, remove camo-net from the Level 1 Specialization equipment spot. In its place, put binocs. This will allow tanks to mount either coated optics or binocs, depending on what type of tank they are, or what role they want to play. Also, I would recommend to change binocs from +25% view range when stationary, to +2.5% view range when moving, and +20% view range when stationary, so that tanks who use binocs can't simply spot half the map once they stop, and so that they aren't completely screwed when they enter a city map or corridor fight where long lanes of spotting aren't possible. Now sniping TDs can get their binocs back, and light tanks who want to fulfill the scout role have access to equipment that will give them a clear advantage in view range over other vehicles.

 

Secondly, change the equipment options for Level 1 Vitality. Condense both pieces of equipment currently available down into one (Improved Internal Layout), and with the free spot left, add back camo-net. This way, sniping vehicles who rely on not being spotted as their "protection" can mount a piece of equipment that is actually useful for them, and vehicles who don't require a camo-net can get a useful piece of equipment as well.

 

Thoughts on this?

[Sherlock0Holmes]

I run optics on all my Meds and french heavies. So. O.o

Edited by Sherlock0Holmes, 06 May 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[gffcom]

There is less variation in loadout now than before 3.8

 

Suoer ironic. 

[BluesAllDay]

There's a really easy fix to this entire thing. None of it was needed before. 

[_SuicideKing_]

I used to run optics and binos and camo in my lights. 

Meds I used binos (they already have good moving view range) and rammer. 

 

Now I wits the same for everybody, rammer and optics. 

[Blartch]

Yep.  Spotted easily in anything, anywhere, because everyone runs optics now.  Lights are just faster, softer mediums now.

 

By the way, simple, brilliant, sensible idea... so it'll never be made reality.  'Tis sad.

Edited by Blartch, 06 May 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[_SuicideKing_]

They (the developers) said people weren't using engine filter, wet ammo or c02, so they they just lumped them altogether in Module Protection, which is kind of silly. Why would people use them more, if all you really did was just change their name?

[_CH3F]

Omg omg omg. Being spotted everywhere all the time. It's driving me mad. It has made the game totally chaotic!

[_warL0rd_]

Wargaming has shown more and more over the years of updates that they have nothing but contempt for TDs.

 

 

from taking away sniping spots, to introducing high tier light tanks to flattening maps and now no optics, TD drivers get the shaft.

[j0nn0]

I've always run optics on most my mobile tanks so not much new here, just that everybody spots everything faster now. Oh, and you forgot about the SP1C. I guess it's so underpowered that it doesn't even register as a valid tank to the general playerbase now.

[Alucard8732]

No. Spotting isnt useless now because everyone is running optics. Just do what you normally do and spot. One thing is for sure... Good games will play slower

[gffcom]

_warL0rd_, on 06 May 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

Wargaming has shown more and more over the years of updates that they have nothing but contempt for TDs.

 

 

With everyone so angry at WG, it's great to hear a voice of reason that points out the good things they do. Thanks!

[Alucard8732]

I'm not too salty about losing binos on my grille... Because i can now mount VStab now! Reticle is significantly smaller!

[_stnick]

Overall I like your ideas, I don't know if your placement of camo net within the equipment structure is the best, but I haven't really thought about it much. Great post!

[FlammeumDraco333]

_stnick, on 06 May 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

Overall I like your ideas, I don't know if your placement of camo net within the equipment structure is the best, but I haven't really thought about it much. Great post!

I think camo-net would work in the "Vitality" section, as not being seen is a protection within itself, and camo-net helps you not be seen.

[LtRaseiniai]

If you got the right shooters it's always possible to do a little spotting.

 

 

[XXX_Corps]

FlammeumDraco333, on 06 May 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

Since update 3.8 dropped, everyone is pissed about the timers, spare parts, nerfs to certain equipment, etc. But one thing that really pissed me off was what WG did to spotting equipment, such as optics, binocs, and camo net.

 

Before update 3.8, many medium tanks didn't mount coated optics, and heavy tanks NEVER equipped them. Meds usually used rammer, vents, and when available, VSTABs. Probably only about 25% of equipped mediums ran coated optics, as afterall, the scouting role befell the light tanks. This meant light tanks that mounted coated optics had a tangible advantage over their medium tank counterparts, as they could provide vision for the team and out-spot their opponents, which made up for their typically weaker guns. Sniping tank destroyers with no armour, like the Nashorn, Borsig, or Grille 15 used to have monster view range and concealment when running binocs and a camo net, which made up for their non-existent armour and usually mediocre mobility. 

 

Then 3.8 hit. Now, all tanks that were fully equipped pre-3.8 have the same loadout options: rammer or increased pen, decreased module damage or decreased crew damage, optics or camo net. This means that ALL tanks are almost required to mount optics, meaning the view range advantage that lights once had is only by 5-10m at most, and since mediums have better firepower and usually better protection, mediums can now fulfill the scouting role just as well as their light tank counterparts, and are not as screwed if they get caught in the open. Furthermore, heavy tanks, now that they all run optics, can spot for themselves, making sneaking up on them or flanking them extremely risky, or even impossible.

 

What about paper TDs? Well, now, paper TDs can either mount optics, and have the same view range as everyone else, or mount camo-net, and have garbage view range and good concealment. This means TDs will NEED to have others spot for them (which never happens, because teams have fewer braincells between them than a single celled organism) if they want to run camo-net, or if they run optics, they will be completely obliterated when they attempt to snipe, as their camo ratings will be mediocre at best. This is a huge nerf to both light tanks and sniping TDs, while buffing mediums and heavies considerably.

 

Now, while I do agree that some lights (coughLTTBcoughT-54LTcough) and some TDs (coughBorsigcough) do need re-evaluation, taking a blanket nerf hammer to ALL sniping tanks and light tanks is completely moronic. Now, some underpowered lights, like the T21 or T71 are simply useless, as their scouting ability was the main advantage they had over mediums. Furthermore, some sniping tanks, like the Nashorn (or to a degree, the Sturer Emil) are absolutely wrecked, and now find it difficult to survive on the battlefield, let alone thrive.

 

Now how do we fix this? Well, it is a really bloody simple fix, that requires only a couple small changes to the equipment choices available.

 

First, remove camo-net from the Level 1 Specialization equipment spot. In its place, put binocs. This will allow tanks to mount either coated optics or binocs, depending on what type of tank they are, or what role they want to play. Also, I would recommend to change binocs from +25% view range when stationary, to +2.5% view range when moving, and +20% view range when stationary, so that tanks who use binocs can't simply spot half the map once they stop, and so that they aren't completely screwed when they enter a city map or corridor fight where long lanes of spotting aren't possible. Now sniping TDs can get their binocs back, and light tanks who want to fulfill the scout role have access to equipment that will give them a clear advantage in view range over other vehicles.

 

Secondly, change the equipment options for Level 1 Vitality. Condense both pieces of equipment currently available down into one (Improved Internal Layout), and with the free spot left, add back camo-net. This way, sniping vehicles who rely on not being spotted as their "protection" can mount a piece of equipment that is actually useful for them, and vehicles who don't require a camo-net can get a useful piece of equipment as well.

 

Thoughts on this?

Will not play Boris until binoculars are available. Without binoculars and a cammo net you are useless.

[FlammeumDraco333]

Indiana__Jones, on 06 May 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

If you got the right shooters it's always possible to do a little spotting.

 

 

 

Did you read the post m8?

[_warL0rd_]

gffcom, on 06 May 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

 

With everyone so angry at WG, it's great to hear a voice of reason that points out the good things they do. Thanks!

 

gee thanks for your snide reply obv not a TD player, eh?

 

The old advantage of TD's was high ground and binocs. High ground is only found in a select few maps these days, and the best spotting equipment they can now get is optics, and now everyone can run optics as well as all the other equipment they want and TD's actually have pretty poor base viewrange, meaning that now TD's have as much spotting capability as heavies. Without the ability to spot enemies before they spot the TD, since other tanks now have as much, if not more, spotting capability than a TD, TD's are completely at the mercy of enemy spotters who rush forward and spot entire teams from the center of the map. With the nerf to the camo net (25% to 14% tops) TD's also can't hide very efficiently. Any way you look at it, TD's took a huge nerf in this update because now everyone runs optics, not just 1-2 scout tanks who have traded out vents or vertical stabilizers for it. By pushing back the average spotting distance, the average shooting range has now entered the previously "TD only range". Without this extra range advantage, TD's are really weak since they have long reload times and poor mobility. You can no longer hide and snipe, if you hide you won't spot anyone before they spot you, and if you snipe the enemy tanks are always within range to snipe you back.