19 replies to this topic

[Tomio_Hara]

          A few months ago I wrote a topic about why I thought the AC 1 needed some kind of a buff as it was almost useless when facing tier V's. The player base who responded were split over this matter although the best of them said that it was fine because of the rapid firing gun and great APCR penetration. Now however, mediums and their prammo have been nerfed into the dust. 

 

          Before 3.9, the AC 1 was very good at tier IV. It had a rapid firing gun similar to the Matilda and decent armor when fighting against its peers. But as MM has it, it sees tier V's very often. The old solution was to pop in some prammo and give the KV-1 or Pz IV/V 15 shells before it would finally go down. That was back when prammo did the same damage as AP. Now things have changed. APCR does less damage then AP which has proven catastrophic for the AC 1. 35 damage per shot at a KV-1 with 770 health means you need at least 24 APCR rounds in order to kill it assuming none bounce and the KV-1 doesn't kill you. Same story when fighting any tier V tank with a decent amount of armor. This tank is unfit to fight any tier V's at all with a few exceptions. It also doesn't carry that much ammunition! Sometimes in games I will find myself running out before I top 1k damage because so many shots bounce or do ~35 damage. Something needs to be done about this vehicle. It is very competitive at tier IV but almost useless at tier V with this massive nerf.

 

          Wargaming could buff this tank in 2 or 3 ways

1. ​Increase the alpha on both AP and APCR shells but remove the gun rammer as an equipment option.
2. Increase ammo capacity
3. Increase penetration on both AP and APCR shells

          BONUS

          4. Give it preferential MM

 

          Sure not everyone will take well to this tank becoming more powerful at tier IV, but it won't be another Ke Ni Otsu or IS-3D. When not even spamming gold works, that tells you this tank needs some kind of a buff. What do you think?

[gizmodjango]

I was just thinkng about this tank and I totally agree. The APCR nerf killed this tank. I have 92 battles in mine, and a 70% winrate, though I've never particularly enjoyed it. Mainly because you have to be so aggressive and shoot approximately 42 million shots to have a decent game, and now with the APCR nerf,doing enough damage is nearly impossible.

 

I decided to bring it out of mothball recently (though hesistantly), because even at 70% WR I don't have an ace, and it does appear to see tier 5 alot, and after 3 games of less than 600 dmg, ending in circling Leopards with 40% winrates dancing around my carcass, I found myself in the garage with my finger hovering over the sell button. My stats have sprialed and my average damage has plummeted from over 700, to low 600s, in the past 20 or so games I drove it. Trying to be aggressive enough to earn an ace is bad for doing well, for me, at least. 

 

When I first bought the tank, it was certainly a bully in equal to low tiers, and it was fun to ram tanks and even sneak up and hyper-shoot kv-1's and such, but the meta, the lights, the seemingly 70% of games being in tier five, have all managed to make me wary. Of course, I know I'm driving it supidly, because the mantra with the tank is "Must be firing, do damage, must be firing, shoot, shoot, must be firing," but, for whatever reason, that used to work. If I play slow at all? Well, them I've fired 5 peashooter shots and my team is either dead or mopping up. And now most of my losses (shudder) seem to end in leopards. I swear the armor used to hold up much better, and I was hopeing less prammo would fly AT me these days, but everyone seemed to be penning me just fine.

 

So, I think preferred MM would be lovely, but they're not doing that any longer. Higher alpha would be nice, but at the least, I would say it desperately needs higher pen, to get it somewhat closer to where it was and compete against tier 5's, and not needing to fire APCR just to be competitive.

 

Also, an anti-leopard cloaking device would be nice. 

[averagebot]

Yes it needs a alpha bump,  scares fewer now.  Gets a lot of dust in my garage.  To bad because I do like to play it...

[TengenToppaPotatoLagann]

Pref mm. That's always been my opinion.

[Tomio_Hara]

TengenToppaPotatoLagann, on 22 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Pref mm. That's always been my opinion.

 

I personally support that one, but when I suggested it I took on some heat from the community

[olddatsunfan]

I took mine out of the garage for it's anniversary battle this week.  It was underwhelming ...  It sure needs something ...

[TheGreatAuk]

it wasn't that awesome before 3.8, now I don't dare touch it.  

[cheasesteak]

TheGreatAuk, on 22 June 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

it wasn't that awesome before 3.8, now I don't dare touch it.  

 

​Exactly.  That and it will be one of the last I spend my precious spare parts on.  It should be ready for play in about 3 years. 

[yossarian14]

Pref. MM would be nice, but it won't happen. A pen buff would help make it playable because you do see a ton of tier 5s in it. 

[Troymk1]

TengenToppaPotatoLagann, on 22 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Pref mm. That's always been my opinion.

 

agreed 

[Troymk1]

Tomio_Hara, on 22 June 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

 

I personally support that one, but when I suggested it I took on some heat from the community that don't have the tank 

 

There fixed it 

[cheasesteak]

Tomio_Hara, on 22 June 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

I personally support that one, but when I suggested it I took on some heat from the community

 

​Pen isn't bad enough for pref. MM. 

[cheasesteak]

AC -1 probably does need a little buff in either ROF or pen, but let's compare with some other tanks that get normal MM.  Below I list the tank with its most used gun, its AP pen, and its gold round pen

 

AC-1              78/121

Pz III              67/130

Coventer        63/101

M5                 56/78

A-20 (ac)       56/97

A-20 (45mm) 75/95

B1                  66/98

 

The two tanks with pref. MM have worse pen (other than the M5)

B2        55/90

Val       51/84

[Troymk1]

cheasesteak, on 22 June 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

​Pen isn't bad enough for pref. MM. 

 

it's not the pen. It's the 45 alpha.   Tier 5 tanks can take this thing out in about 2-4 shots.  Whilst the AC1 would take about 14-16 Penetrating shots to return the favor 

 

So in game play the tier Vs ignore cover and just come out and blast you, ignoring your pathetic 2pdr gun 

[cheasesteak]

Troymk1, on 22 June 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

 

it's not the pen. It's the 45 alpha.   Tier 5 tanks can take this thing out in about 2-4 shots.  Whilst the AC1 would take about 14-16 Penetrating shots to return the favor 

 

So in game play the tier Vs ignore cover and just come out and blast you, ignoring your pathetic 2pdr gun 

 

​2pdr gets 45 alpha.  That is what the AC-1 had.  Not much you can do to fix that.  Buff the ROF is probably the best answer then. 

 

Matilda used to have a ROF of about 30, and did great with a 45 alpha.  Had to be nerfed. 

[Troymk1]

Dude.  It can't face Vs.  That's exactly what we're saying 

[cheasesteak]

Dude, it can face tier 5.  Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.  It could use higher ROF, but play it to its strengths.  Accurate gun (don't need to get up close), decent gun depression.  Small, well armored turret, decent hull armor, good top speed (a little lacking in pick up). 

 

[Troymk1]

All of that is irrelevant.  You aren't doing any meaningful damage.  So yes you stay alive as long as able, probably trying to take out the tier 4s to help your team quickest.  But when push comes to shove a tier V med will simply drive up and swat you

 

I have that t shirt in XL 

 

 

[cheasesteak]

My very first tier 5 game with AC-1, in the Mill corner of the old Winter M map, I faced off against a very solid player (forum poster) from a good clan in his Pz IV.  Used the little turret and the ROF to win that engagement.  45 damage isn't much, but when you can dish it out every 2.5 seconds, it adds up. 

 

Not saying the tank is OP, but it does OK.  Obviously there are better tanks to face tier 5 (DW, Hetzer, Pz IVD), but it still contributes. 

[Tomio_Hara]

cheasesteak, on 22 June 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

​Pen isn't bad enough for pref. MM. 

 

That is true, but the AC-1 seems to struggle a lot more against tier V's then the other tanks in the list you made. The A-20, Covenanter, M5, and Pz III have speed. The B1 has good armor even at tier V. The AC-1 doesn't have speed and its armor doesn't stand up against most tier V's. Given the player base in this day and age at tier V you must carry, but it is very hard to do so in it now that the APCR alpha has been nerfed. Pref MM should be the last resort as a RoF or alpha buff would be better to implement.

Edited by Tomio_Hara, 22 June 2017 - 08:41 PM.