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Rated tier X Matchmaker 183 Justice Rated battles

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The_Martyr_34 #1 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:28 PM

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Tier x battle with 4 183 on red team vs my team with 0 183... absolute bizarre match up especially since it is ranked so.. Not sure what MM was thinking other than maybe F^## me harder. Despite a terrible match up justice was served so we did win, but still. I was under the impression ranked battles wouldn't create such an unbalanced match. I will note though this was at like 4AM lol so maybe match maker was just lethargic and apathetic. I guess what I am saying is I still don't quite understand how MM works and or how ranked battles have altered such matching. Also side note, wthis the point of tier 9 ranked. Day one I played several tier 9 ranked resulting is most battles being all tier 9 tanks with maybe 1 or 2 tier x tanks. Lately though if you join tier 9 ranked your probably going to be the only tier 9 in the battle o.0 fun fun if you chose your leo PTA LOL

 

http://imageshack.co...4870/w5UDPa.png


Edited by The_Martyr_34, 22 July 2017 - 08:37 PM.


Money_mann____ #2 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:34 PM

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Even if we think the FV 183 is an annoyance in tier X almost nothing can be done about it. Can't blame them for using a tank with 1300 alpha either. 

 

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NICKEL_AND_DIME #3 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:38 PM

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Can't expect these update additions to work logically.  I know they make it sound like it's a well thought out change / addition when they come up with things like "Military Honor" or "Ranked Battles" or "Spare Parts".  None of them have been thought out in depth as we are accustomed to here in North America. 

 

We expect this to be something to make sense, and bring balance to the games as advertised.  The observed reality is typically a greater imbalance as result.  This is just another symptom of the half-cooked ideas that are implemented with fervor and stubborn insistence that it will actually, you know, be something that is "working as intended" as we hear from WG.



The_Martyr_34 #4 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:38 PM

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It's not just that it's when match maker puts 3 or 4 Death Stars on one side vs 1 or none lol. Take a look at the screenshot I added to my original post. Joining a battle like that is... frustrating from the start. Earlier that same night I fought several battles 3 Death Stars vs 1 or none lol. That and if you look at the players, 3 of the 4 Death Stars are decent players so then you know it's gonna be tough. That battle came down to like 10 seconds remaining before we won lol.

Edited by The_Martyr_34, 22 July 2017 - 08:42 PM.


PlagueVendor #5 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:55 PM

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@ money man - it's nice when you do get 1300 alpha in one shot but it doesn't happen often. Variables such as ammo used, hit location of red, type of tank and position of the red impact how much damage registers. Most of you already know this but the 183 gets a bad rap for "all the alpha damage it causes" which sometimes is only average. I still like it despite some of its shortcomings.

r3cursion #6 Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:58 PM

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Not trying to sound snarky, but I did some quick calcs and that combination will happen about 10% of the time (assuming the battle is only composed of these 14 tanks...in reality the MM has a larger pool to choose from I'm guessing,  but not sure how their algo works.)  

 

Someone better versed in probabilities can feel free to correct me if i'm mistaken, but here's a quick outline of my thought process:

 - the toon is 183s, they have to be on the same team.  Given that, there's a 50% chance they're on the team with 4 TDs.

- of the remaining TDs, of which there are 5 remaining, we have to choose 2 - there are 10 possible ways to do this.  There are 2 possible ways to choose the other two 183s, so the probability of this happening is 2/10, or 20%.

- 50% * 20% = 10%.

 

Who knows what the probability of getting these 14 specific tanks chosen for a battle is - my guess is that its extremely small, so it's a pretty safe bet you'll never see this again.



Mall_ninja42 #7 Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:02 PM

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You were 3:4 on TDs. That is literally how WG said they were going to balance tank types for ranked, no more than 1 difference between teams. Short end of the stick? Absolutely. Still working as advertised.

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mike82198 #8 Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:25 PM

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View PostMall_ninja42, on 22 July 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

You were 3:4 on TDs. That is literally how WG said they were going to balance tank types for ranked, no more than 1 difference between teams. Short end of the stick? Absolutely. Still working as advertised.

 

Yes. But...

 

This is proof that there's a feature present in random battle MM that is absent from ranked battles MM: balancing out the tanks so that no team gets too many of one. This was very acute during the halcyon days of tier 8 IS spam. This fix was implemented almost a year ago and the teams in that screenshot are impossible to get in random battles. Probably due to queue times it's not applicable to ranked. So there you go. 

 

Hopefully ranked will be popular enough so this feature feature can be turned on. I would have hated to be in that battle. OP is absolutely right to complain. 


Edited by mike82198, 22 July 2017 - 09:28 PM.


VonMiller58 #9 Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:32 PM

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View Postmike82198, on 22 July 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

Yes. But...

 

This is proof that there's a feature present in random battle MM that is absent from ranked battles MM: balancing out the tanks so that no team gets too many of one. This was very acute during the halcyon days of tier 8 IS spam. This fix was implemented almost a year ago and the teams in that screenshot are impossible to get in random battles. Probably due to queue times it's not applicable to ranked. So there you go. 

 

Hopefully ranked will be popular enough so this feature feature can be turned on. I would have hated to be in that battle. OP is absolutely right to complain. 

 

I feel like that IS spam balancing feature is gone right now...Maybe not but I have seen some real Russian Heavy Teams lately vs Meds Lights at tier 8

 

The 183 spam is real though(minimum of 2 per battle and up to 5 last few days in regular battles)...but I am more scared of the Jag 100s...they seem to pen everything and the upper can bounce my rounds pretty easily


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AdderaII #10 Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:13 PM

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The 183 is a no skills required, piece of junk of a tank.

Put someone with skill in it and it becomes just a stupid game killer.


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vvk2 #11 Posted 22 July 2017 - 11:14 PM

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View PostThe_Martyr_34, on 22 July 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Tier x battle with 4 183 on red team vs my team with 0 183... absolute bizarre match up especially since it is ranked so.. Not sure what MM was thinking other than maybe F^## me harder. Despite a terrible match up justice was served so we did win, but still. I was under the impression ranked battles wouldn't create such an unbalanced match. I will note though this was at like 4AM lol so maybe match maker was just lethargic and apathetic. I guess what I am saying is I still don't quite understand how MM works and or how ranked battles have altered such matching. Also side note, wthis the point of tier 9 ranked. Day one I played several tier 9 ranked resulting is most battles being all tier 9 tanks with maybe 1 or 2 tier x tanks. Lately though if you join tier 9 ranked your probably going to be the only tier 9 in the battle o.0 fun fun if you chose your leo PTA LOL

 

http://imageshack.co...4870/w5UDPa.png

 

I think the MM took special care of the red Leo toon. It would not be fair those Leos be HESH targets for the 183's. So it put them all in one team. That's the most logical explanation I could come up with. LOL

 

 



War_Vet_1 #12 Posted 22 July 2017 - 11:29 PM

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The equipment changes in 3.8 actually helped this tank so it could also be that people are putting equipment on it and playing it more.

Mall_ninja42 #13 Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:05 AM

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View Postmike82198, on 22 July 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

 

Yes. But...

 

This is proof that there's a feature present in random battle MM that is absent from ranked battles MM: balancing out the tanks so that no team gets too many of one. This was very acute during the halcyon days of tier 8 IS spam. This fix was implemented almost a year ago and the teams in that screenshot are impossible to get in random battles. Probably due to queue times it's not applicable to ranked. So there you go. 

 

Hopefully ranked will be popular enough so this feature feature can be turned on. I would have hated to be in that battle. OP is absolutely right to complain. 

But, WG straight out said pub mm never considered type and ranked did. Tier x didn't get 183 spammed until ranked, it was TD spammed as soon as you were done with the twister and the great nerfining happened. Now it's is7, e100 and 183s thanks to you, WG in spare parts and bushka (plus whatever dumb sh** pulled hesh for the fv) in both ranked and pub. You created this sh** storm, and WG said exactly how they were weighting types in rank.


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BushkaOnBlitz #14 Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:24 AM

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View PostMall_ninja42, on 23 July 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

But, WG straight out said pub mm never considered type and ranked did. Tier x didn't get 183 spammed until ranked, it was TD spammed as soon as you were done with the twister and the great nerfining happened. Now it's is7, e100 and 183s thanks to you, WG in spare parts and bushka (plus whatever dumb sh** pulled hesh for the fv) in both ranked and pub. You created this sh** storm, and WG said exactly how they were weighting types in rank.

 

Just a small one, hesh is back in 4.1..it only had a month off.

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AdderaII #15 Posted 23 July 2017 - 04:24 AM

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View PostMall_ninja42, on 22 July 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

But, WG straight out said pub mm never considered type and ranked did. Tier x didn't get 183 spammed until ranked, it was TD spammed as soon as you were done with the twister and the great nerfining happened. Now it's is7, e100 and 183s thanks to you, WG in spare parts and bushka (plus whatever dumb sh** pulled hesh for the fv) in both ranked and pub. You created this sh** storm, and WG said exactly how they were weighting types in rank.

 

The 183 spam isn't caused by the ranked MM.

It's caused by players who have the 183 and know it's the easiest way to win a battle and give them a good rating.

 

It's a trash tank, played by trash players, because it's an easy max damage, win, that doesn't take a lot of skill or even moving around to achieve.


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shooter018 #16 Posted 23 July 2017 - 10:25 AM

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and they say mm isn't rigged

mehliveat #17 Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

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3 TD vs 4 TD with your team having an extra heavy, this is when there are four platoons.  Pretty good MM actually.  Grilles are far more annoying with their speed, camo and still big enoguh alpha.

vvk2 #18 Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:09 PM

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It actually can happen in Pubs.

Below is a pub battle - happened a while ago but after the anti-IS MM tweak was implemented (I guess that tweak was applied only to IS-3/IS-6/IS-3D tanks)

 

And for the record - I didn't like it back then and I don't like it now. I think MM should limit one 183 per team.

 


Edited by vvk2, 23 July 2017 - 02:12 PM.


YOLO_trash #19 Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:40 PM

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View Postmehliveat, on 23 July 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

3 TD vs 4 TD with your team having an extra heavy, this is when there are four platoons. Pretty good MM actually. Grilles are far more annoying with their speed, camo and still big enoguh alpha.

 

Grille and camo in the same sentence? Lol I Didn't like the Grille because i got spotted anytime I moved.

 

How to fix 183 spam? Jump into Obj 263 and bounce a few HESH rounds off the front and take advantage of the long reload. Even if you do take one round, it could be a low roll or no pen splash, then you can damn near put 3 rounds into him before he can reload.

 

When I see piles of 183s, I try not to worry to much. They have a narrow playstyle which you can exploit easily as long as you don't expose yourself to much. 



DanAnsomeHansome #20 Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

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So compare it to the jgpz e100. First hesh is 1300 alpha. The times when an fv gets to use hesh reliably are far and few between. It's not like you can flank behind a tank. The shells also cost like 8k each. So you are using standard ammo that prob averages 900 or so. Jag prob averages 700, has a faster reload, more accurate gun and awesome armor. Has all 3 ammo types. I would most certainly rather go against 3 good players in fvs compared to 3 good jags. Fv is probably the hardest tank in the game to drive and is 100% team dependent. Can't tell you how many losing 5k damage battles I have had in the fv. 






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