83 replies to this topic

[Dark_Magician_Girl]

HI everyone, I thought I’d write a short, highly opinionated piece on tanks that I believe are a bit weak, but if you buffed them, they would be quite strong. Most likely too strong.  As I said, many of you might disagree with some of these more controversial choices, but here goes anyway.

 

Glacial 112

 

I have watched numerous gameplay replays of this tank and have played it myself for hours on end.  I have tried countless times to make this Chinese knockoff of an a tier 8 IS tank work, but it is so hard to find success driving this distant cousin of the IS-6.  The most popular shortcoming everyone points to is update 3.9, where gold rounds were nerfed across the board in terms of the alpha, but the general DPM of the vehicle is lackluster and the mobility is mediocre.  Who knew a near impenetrable front would result in such a poor package?  I really wanted to like this tank, because it does have some respectable qualities, but the shortcomings are just too abundant.

 

T34 (Clown Car included)

 

Before you rush to defend your T34 from my verbal scrutiny, hear me out.  While this vehicle has the standard -10 depression of an American tank, the turret is deceivingly mushy, negating the whole play style.  3 notable weak points exist.  The cupola is the most noticeable, and is actually more pronounced on the Independence version of the T34, despite them having the same turret module by name.  Second, the cheeks are reliable penetrations, so know that anytime that you are aiming at an enemy in your T34, they can most likely trade with you right back. Third is the mantlet issue.  Whether this was by design or not, Bushka highlighted the deceptive nature of American mantlets, showing their susceptibility to high penetration weaponry despite showing red on the hitskin.  This has yet to be fixed, given it was not by design.  Another note to add about the T34 and its clown car twin, wiggling only makes the cheek weak points more pronounced, so it is not a smart tactic to use.  The hull armor for these vehicles is quite bad except for the situations where they are maximizing their gun depression, and despite thick tracks side scraping is not advised as most can still penetrate reliably.

 

T30

 

A T34, but more so.  This vehicle has all the problems of the previous vehicles listed above, but it now gets an extra problem.  Derp factor.  Now equipped with a 155mm gun, this vehicle is increasingly prone to miss key shots.  Things may have gotten better with the introduction of vertical stabilizers to this vehicle, but it’s flexibility is limited even though it is a turretless TD because of the inability to engage targets effectively at long range and short range.

 

T43

 

I can’t believe i’m advocating that Russian mediums are becoming obsolete, but the T43 has difficulty performing adequately.  In a 1v1, this tank is the bee’s knees, but in a 7v7, there are much better team play options.  Tanks like the Comet and T6 Dracula are notable competitors to the 43 that have power-crept it into oblivion.  In lower tier matches it is quite the respectable tank, however in higher tiers it struggles.  A lot.

 

IS8

 

Every mobile heavy tank with acceptable handling deserves a look, but the IS8 still does not make the grade in terms of performance.  The only remarkable thing about this vehicle is the troll side armor, which is most likely a flaw with the collision model that should have been fixed along with the IS-7’s collision model in update 3.10.  Otherwise, I’d rather just drive a medium tank.  Terrible camo and mediocre gun depression for it’s size make this tank difficult to succeed in.  Horrid front armor automatically places this tank in the medium bully category, but at that point why not just drive an E50 or a T-54?  Or if you are into heavies, why not an M103, that can also adequately play a heavy role on the field?

 

For you, what tanks do not cut it?  Tanks that are on the brink of being great vehicles, but something holds it back?

DMG

 

Edited by Dark_Magician_Girl, 02 August 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[_Hav0k]

Panther M10, it needs more than just a speed buff. The gun is still bad and prammo nerf just made the gun even worse. Would love to see a gun buff in the future.

[j0nn0]

Still gonna say it cuz I miss it. The SP1C. Gimme back my old gun stats and I'll be fine even with the prammo nerf update on it.

[WipWapJaws]

I agree with the 112, it not an easy tank to do well in.

 

Of the others u mention that I have (T30 and the T43) I dont mind and still play ad do ok with

 

The one I feel that has really been power creaped is the Shinobi.  Its just soo slow and has no armour for the current meta. where everything seems to be about speed and armour

[YourTypicalNoob]

DMG,

I beg you PLEASE add the AMX 50 b to this list. I think you all know why! Just a 0.8 intra-clip buff and it'll be great again! Im begging u wg!!

[Posit1ve_]

YourTypicalNoob, on 02 August 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

DMG,

I beg you PLEASE add the AMX 50 b to this list. I think you all know why! Just a 0.8 intra-clip buff and it'll be great again! Im begging u wg!!

 

What the tier X autoloaders should have is 4 shells in the magazine. That would be nice. Clip potential > Literally everything else

[Player935]

T34 might get track and get damage repeatedly, damage on the side turret, slow reload time, slow turret turning speed, but most of the time I just expose the front of the turret without showing the hull.

[Posit1ve_]

Also, there are way worse tanks than those in the list.

 

SP-1C; Bulldog; T71; T69; T28 Prototype; Churchill GC; the entire French TD line; SU-101; the list goes on. There's a lot of tanks way worse than T30, T34, and IS-8. I will give you glacial. That thing is terrible

[a_cookie]

I'm really not sure about you all but I love my IS-8, stats might be bad but that's just stock

[Mayjaplaya]

Dark_Magician_Girl, on 01 August 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

it’s flexibility is limited even though it is a turretless TD because of the inability to engage targets effectively at long range and short range. 

 

turreted*

 

Also, I don't know where you got the info that the IS-8's camo is "terrible".

 

*for those not in the know, the IS-8 was renamed T-10 after Stalin died.

 

Unless you've actually tested the camo in Blitz and gotten different numbers, I'll stick to wotinfo's info.

 

I also disagree that you can't buff those tanks without making them overpowered. Buffs don't have to be dramatic. A few updates ago, the Tiger II got +4 degrees to turret traverse. Still totally uncompetitive. The Super Pershing got +33mm of AP pen. Did not break the tier.

 

Tanks that are pretty good, but are far from best in tier, with an unnecessary weakness:

 

• Tiger I (aim time, which contradicts the tank's supposed strong accuracy)
• Leopard PT A and Leopard 1 (turret traverse, which contradicts the tanks' supposed strong mobility)

Edited by Mayjaplaya, 02 August 2017 - 07:35 AM.

[KingxChuck]

I played 112 for the last few days but I didn't find it very much underpowered. Yes, the AP shells need a buff, but its armor is just too trollish. If you can keep its lower plate hidden, 112 would be one of the most powerful heavies on the battlefield.  

[xXZachAttackXx_EOG]

While the points are all valid, I have to disagree on the t34. It's weakspots are nowhere near as weak as you proclaim them to be( except maybe the cupola) and no one is really thinking about shooting the turret in the heat of battle when the hull is such a better option. Still a beast rn capable of ripping reds apart as long as it's team is half decent, which is rare these days. Still it's a good tenk.

[minitel_NA]

Space_Ape_Marksman, on 02 August 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

Panther M10, it needs more than just a speed buff. The gun is still bad and prammo nerf just made the gun even worse. Would love to see a gun buff in the future.

 

it was a dead tank. 

Now it Is a somewhat dead tank. But faster.

its fine as it had always been, except that instead of killing light tanks when they attack you, you can kill them while attacking them.

 

except you still meet tier8 that your prammo can't pen under any angle, and when by miracle it does pen, you enjoy sending the miserable 120 damage and collect the -400 Russian thing. It uses so much prammo that you will lose credits as long as you don't go drown straight from spawn, which is the clever option, financially speaking. 

Last game 25 shots and 12 penned for 1000 damage and -25.000 credits. 

Lost of course.

 

i think the buff is a fail. It improved the tank where it didn't need to be and addressed none of the shortcomings.

 

however if they gave it the E25 treatment, then it would instantly become a beast. 

 

I think they did test it on the rare E25 before making the same on a tech tree tank that could flood the tier.

Now that I come to talk about it, I wouldn't mind pantherM10 being a beast. Come on, heat ammo wouldn't change anything in a tier6 game. And it's not like tier 7 and 8 are exempt of OP tank anyway. There are so many op tanks there, it becomes easier to count the UP tanks.

 

 

 

I dont know how they could fix that tank. Maybe giving it +0 MM ?

[Mayjaplaya]

minitel_NA, on 02 August 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:

 

it was a dead tank. 

Now it Is a somewhat dead tank. But faster.

its fine as it had always been, except that instead of killing light tanks when they attack you, you can kill them while attacking them.

 

except you still meet tier8 that your prammo can't pen under any angle, and when by miracle it does pen, you enjoy sending the miserable 120 damage and collect the -400 Russian thing. It uses so much prammo that you will lose credits as long as you don't go drown straight from spawn, which is the clever option, financially speaking. 

Last game 25 shots and 12 penned for 1000 damage and -25.000 credits. 

Lost of course.

 

i think the buff is a fail. It improved the tank where it didn't need to be and addressed none of the shortcomings.

 

however if they gave it the E25 treatment, then it would instantly become a beast. 

 

I think they did test it on the rare E25 before making the same on a tech tree tank that could flood the tier.

Now that I come to talk about it, I wouldn't mind pantherM10 being a beast. Come on, heat ammo wouldn't change anything in a tier6 game. And it's not like tier 7 and 8 are exempt of OP tank anyway. There are so many op tanks there, it becomes easier to count the UP tanks.

 

 

 

I dont know how they could fix that tank. Maybe giving it +0 MM ?

 

At that point you might as well knock the whole thing down to tier 6, like the Kuro Mori Mine Tiger. It's not like the M/10 will suddenly dominate the tier in the face of the Bromwell, VK28.01, etc.

Edited by Mayjaplaya, 02 August 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[TonnerreCadien]

DMG, Glad to see you don't like the T-43 or the IS-8. I cannot do well in either one of those monsters. I also found the Blaze WZ to be terrible. Finally, while the last tank I'll mention may have been surpassed by the new French low-tier TDs in terms of awfulness (at least from what I hear), I thought the tier II French D1 was the worst tank I ever drove. What a bucket of slow bolts.

[tonski_]

I'd really like to hear more about the gun mantlet on the American tanks not working. Do you have the link to the Bushka video?

[minitel_NA]

Mayjaplaya, on 02 August 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

 

At that point you might as well knock the whole thing down to tier 6, like the Kuro Mori Mine Tiger. It's not like the M/10 will suddenly dominate the tier in the face of the Bromwell, VK28.01, etc.

 

in the old days of  special MM+1-2, panther M10 could see 5, 6, 7, and 8. It couldn't see tier 9 unless failtooned.

it was a heavy at tier 5 and 6, a slow medium at tier 7 and useless at tier8.

i had a 65% winrate because of seeing the tier 8 about 30% of the time

if you angled it correctly, it could just ram tier5 to death without bothering shooting them, it was fun !

 

If the armor is so troll and can make wonder, It only has a tier6 gun, after all.

so  I think yes bringing it down one tier, would be just like old MM except without tier8.

at the same time it would make a tank easily drivable into  the 80% or 90%. 

I don't think it is advisable, unfortunately. 

 

But wg seriously need to do something to it. 

 

 

 

[AfleetAlex]

What ruined the t-43 in my opnion was that after the equipment changes, suddenly every  tank it faces had better or as good view range.  It can't fire a shot now without getting spotted.

It used to be able to sit just beyond everyone's view range and pour in that amazing dpm.

Now it fires one shot and has to hide.

[Dark_Magician_Girl]

This list is more for tanks that I believe to be slightly unerpowered, not for tanks that need massive buffs.  These vehicles have such an opportunity to be great, but they lack a few qualities to reach that standard.

 

 

 

[Dark_Magician_Girl]

Player935, on 02 August 2017 - 02:04 AM, said:

T34 might get track and get damage repeatedly, damage on the side turret, slow reload time, slow turret turning speed, but most of the time I just expose the front of the turret without showing the hull.

 

xXZachAttackXx_EOG, on 02 August 2017 - 02:54 AM, said:

While the points are all valid, I have to disagree on the t34. It's weakspots are nowhere near as weak as you proclaim them to be( except maybe the cupola) and no one is really thinking about shooting the turret in the heat of battle when the hull is such a better option. Still a beast rn capable of ripping reds apart as long as it's team is half decent, which is rare these days. Still it's a good tenk.

 

You can still frontally engage a hull down T34 if you have to.