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Potential resolution for cheating in T49A event

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_Duncan_Idaho_ #1 Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:29 PM

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So, I have read the excellent sleuthing from Blartch and I have come to a few conclusions:

 

1. Some people were able to "cheat" or game the system in a way that WG did not intend.

2. This event seriously messed with the meta from the crazy OP T49A at tier 7, to folks intentionally throwing games or doing other crazy stuff.

3. WG has to take some responsibility for failing to anticipate the ease with which folks could cheat which include:

  • failtooning (using alt accounts that go AFK on the red team)
  • normal toning with a fail toon mate
  • intentionally lowering rank in ranked battle system prior to the event with or without tooning
  • Likely several other possibilities that have not occurred to me.
  • The only "rigging" I figured out was that it was much easier to score high by driving a tier 5 S35CA than it is in my 183, but that didn't work so well for me in the end and I typically got my best dmg of the day on my 6th win so murphy's law was in full effect. Anyhow, it seems the adjustment for tier was a bit too much and allowed seasoned players to seal club their way to victory.

 

Solution: So, since WG did not explicitly disallow these methods of gaming the system and it may not be feasible to suss out the line between those trying fairly to win and those using various degrees of rigging the system, I think WG should simply expand the winner circle a bit to compensate. eg. WG does an analysis and determines that xx% of the top 1000 used some level of rigging. WG could then use that number to create a new threshold. So, if xx were 20% then WG would extend the winner circle to 1200, thus including those who would have fairly won and those who may have leveraged the system more than was fair so that WG doesn't have to try to draw a line between cheating and creative thinking.

 

Just to be clear, I came in at position 1944 and I am assuming that the majority of top 1000 winners were actual winners. I have no expectation that WG would expand the winner circle far enough to include me, so this idea is not being presented for personal gain, but as an way to create an equitable solution without having to either ignore obvious rigging, or engage in McCarthyism.

 

••Just for the record, I did most of my games in the AMX 50 100 and am playing it as much as possible before the 4.2 nerf gets here. What tanks did others use?


Edited by _Duncan_Idaho_, 07 September 2017 - 12:16 AM.


Bullveigh25 #2 Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:40 PM

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wasnt this WGs pilot for this event type? maybe theyll collect data and get it better for a certain tier 9 french vehicle that shall not be named (so thread wont be locked)  : ) 

Not_A_Fascist #3 Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:46 PM

    Haruna > Fusou

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I used a Kuro Mori Mine and FV4202. 

Thanks to Zennosha and/or Panbun, I have a shiny new signature! Thank you!


_Duncan_Idaho_ #4 Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:04 AM

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Kuro is a good idea. .  and the FV if you can master the HESH. . . I did a few games in my Leo 1, cause mostly I like to run mediums, but due to the "first five wins" model, I was afraid of getting lit by some HE from a death start and losing a chance at any damage, so I focused on other tanks where that was less likely.



doonglerules #5 Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:07 AM

    First Sergeant

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I genocided the entire seal population of tier V using the T67.

 

Mightve been a few others with me too


 


RoadKutter #6 Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:07 AM

    Polish Demolish

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What is your definition of fail tooning? 

                         

If you give a man fire, he will be warm for a day. If you light a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.

 

                

                                                                  


_Duncan_Idaho_ #7 Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:16 AM

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View PostRoadKutter, on 06 September 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

What is your definition of fail tooning? 

 

It is based on Blartch's research. Basically, you toon with a friend. Then you both have alt accounts toon at the same time. You have to do this at a low traffic moment. Both toons hit battle at the same time and are likely to get paired against each other in battle. Then one toon plays well with one of the players feeding damage to the other while the alt toon plays out as AFK - free damage for the main toon. Imagine being on the team with a toon both getting zero damage. This guarantees a win for the real toon and a loss for the other team. Now, if the matchup doesn't work - the alt accounts aren't on the red team against the real accounts - then the toon does another kind of fail - they intentionally throw the game so that they don't have a lower damage score using up one of their 5 wins of the day.

 

I realize there is a more common form of fail toon referring to a pair of low WR players tooning together all but guaranteeing a loss cause they are more likely to be paired against a strong WR toon, but I don't really concern myself with those situations. I take my own advice - "stfu and carry harder".



WipWapJaws #8 Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:15 AM

    Clanless Scrub

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I missed the first day then tried the T30 the second (big mistake), After that the tier V BDR (averaged 1300 in it)  but was too far behind to catch up.  Ended up at 1800 odd.  

 

I think if you were to not allow platoons that might solve most of the issues seen by players



TonnerreCadien #9 Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:36 AM

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View Post_Duncan_Idaho_, on 06 September 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

 

It is based on Blartch's research. Basically, you toon with a friend. Then you both have alt accounts toon at the same time. You have to do this at a low traffic moment. Both toons hit battle at the same time and are likely to get paired against each other in battle. Then one toon plays well with one of the players feeding damage to the other while the alt toon plays out as AFK - free damage for the main toon. Imagine being on the team with a toon both getting zero damage. This guarantees a win for the real toon and a loss for the other team. Now, if the matchup doesn't work - the alt accounts aren't on the red team against the real accounts - then the toon does another kind of fail - they intentionally throw the game so that they don't have a lower damage score using up one of their 5 wins of the day.

 

I realize there is a more common form of fail toon referring to a pair of low WR players tooning together all but guaranteeing a loss cause they are more likely to be paired against a strong WR toon, but I don't really concern myself with those situations. I take my own advice - "stfu and carry harder".

You're missing a key element here. A failtoon is when you have toonmates at different tiers, like a T1 Heavy (Tier V) tooning with an M3 Lee (Tier IV). Failtoons are relatively rare, and the MM always puts one failtoon on green with another on red, so when using the countdown method you are much more likely to end up on opposing teams in the same battle than if you were a non-failtoon (i.e., both tooners in same tier tanks) trying to do the same thing.


fMWfyks.jpg

I'm too old to be a seal clubber! I can't tell you the last time I even went to a club!

"Go back to tier III!" - Every stat-fetisher who ever got salty with me in post-game chat


TonnerreCadien #10 Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:39 AM

    Cabri dans le Maïs

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I'm just thinking aloud here, but what if instead of the missile event system, it would instead include the damage (or better still XP) from your first five (seven?) games, PERIOD. Win, lose, you name it, it counts? This would prevent people from throwing the game when they haven't done what they consider to be enough damage? And maybe no toons, as was suggested above?

Edited by TonnerreCadien, 07 September 2017 - 01:41 AM.

fMWfyks.jpg

I'm too old to be a seal clubber! I can't tell you the last time I even went to a club!

"Go back to tier III!" - Every stat-fetisher who ever got salty with me in post-game chat


MSgtB #11 Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:51 PM

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Guess I was the fool in this contest.  I used Jagdpanther II, Tiger II, and E75.  Spent my Orders on other things than a T49A, since all I'd end up with from that is yet another garage slot.  Ended up at 11,398th place.

But as I'm not Unicom (as my stats will show), I'll take my 3 special containers and be satisfied.  If folks did game the system as you suggest then I do hope that WG does an adjustment.



_Duncan_Idaho_ #12 Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:16 PM

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View PostMSgtB, on 07 September 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Guess I was the fool in this contest.  I used Jagdpanther II, Tiger II, and E75.  Spent my Orders on other things than a T49A, since all I'd end up with from that is yet another garage slot.  Ended up at 11,398th place.

But as I'm not Unicom (as my stats will show), I'll take my 3 special containers and be satisfied.  If folks did game the system as you suggest then I do hope that WG does an adjustment.

 

I would think those tanks would provide a reliable level of damage per game, if not an OP amount for the tier. . . . but we had to choose to be fools or suckers in this contest because it wasn't too difficult to game the system and if you didn't successfully do that, you had to spend like crazy to get the tank.

 

I earned/purchased all of the crates with missions & gold. I also earned the 7 special crates in the competition. . . that left me with about 1500 charms towards the  the tank which is a lot less than I expected. So, I started spending $$ just out of curiosity. I bought 6 special. Then another 6, then another 6. Then 1 then 1 last one to get the last 100 charms to 5500. It was a silly thing to do and in the end, I got what I wanted but felt more like a chump than a customer which is something I think WG should avoid. I think the crates would be a bit more palatable if they were a bit more honest about the drop rate of particular items. As it is, I opened 20 purchased crates, 7 won crates, and all of the grind crates (maybe like a dozen or so?) and I never saw a drop of charms gold or credit more than double the minimum drop (maybe a little more but nothing significant, like 10% of the max drop not to mention 50 or 100%). Previous crate events have had much more valuable items in the crates themselves with drop rates of valuables averaging higher (or maybe I was just luckier?), but then again, this one led to the first ever tier 9 premium tank so I can't complain. . . but i think I would have preferred to have just purchased it in a bundle or had more opportunity to earn towards it rather than rely on random (but always close to minimum) drops of charms in crates. 



timbokirby #13 Posted 21 September 2017 - 05:42 AM

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So I was supposed to receive 5 special containers from the missile event but have yet to see them? Has everyone else already got theirs?





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