Jump to content


Official Matchmaking Discussion Thread


  • Please log in to reply
1511 replies to this topic

BAR_001 #1341 Posted 11 July 2020 - 10:56 PM

    Mechanized com poster

  • Players
  • 32896 battles
  • 2,520
  • [HAHA]
  • Member since:
    02-18-2017
Just had a tier 8 game @ mines, a KV-4 and an Obj 252U sat in the back with the TD's. The thing is they had 12,000 and over 23,000 battles respectively. Im no unicom, but how can these plebs have played that many games and still have so little of a clue? :facepalm: Its stunning. I yelled at them. Couldnt help myself.
RNG doesn't bother hackers.

Texas_Tyrant #1342 Posted 12 July 2020 - 06:17 AM

    The Philosophical Tank Farmer

  • Players
  • 12727 battles
  • 1,444
  • [UTC]
  • Member since:
    08-02-2018

View PostBAR_001, on 11 July 2020 - 05:56 PM, said:

Just had a tier 8 game @ mines, a KV-4 and an Obj 252U sat in the back with the TD's. The thing is they had 12,000 and over 23,000 battles respectively. Im no unicom, but how can these plebs have played that many games and still have so little of a clue? :facepalm: Its stunning. I yelled at them. Couldnt help myself.

I often wonder if they are different people on the same account...would explain the battle count with their in battle performance. Of course, newbs with two "oo's" do exist.

Some people just don't learn; if naming and shaming wasn't such a taboo, I'd start a WoTB Darwin Award. I would have so many awards to give out:medal:

Yeehaw,

Texas_Tyrant


We Want Israeli Tanks In Game! Merkava MK 1 Fits In Game!

"Remember the Alamo, remember Goliad" and tank with Vengeance!

Fun fact: There are 15 MBT in game already!

 


BAR_001 #1343 Posted 12 July 2020 - 12:51 PM

    Mechanized com poster

  • Players
  • 32896 battles
  • 2,520
  • [HAHA]
  • Member since:
    02-18-2017

View PostTexas_Tyrant, on 11 July 2020 - 11:17 PM, said:

I often wonder if they are different people on the same account...would explain the battle count with their in battle performance. Of course, newbs with two "oo's" do exist.

Some people just don't learn; if naming and shaming wasn't such a taboo, I'd start a WoTB Darwin Award. I would have so many awards to give out:medal:

Yeehaw,

Texas_Tyrant

 

 I have advocated some sort of tutorial or skill level requirement to advance up tiers for a long time. Do you think WG will ever do the math and realize that the quality of the player base translates directly to the quality of the game? Or will their give a rip factor just continue to remain at zero? 


RNG doesn't bother hackers.

hul_steel #1344 Posted 15 July 2020 - 06:36 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Players
  • 39047 battles
  • 38
  • [419]
  • Member since:
    07-07-2016
Wow, a lot like Ive been saying for ages - Have players limited to what tier tank tier they can play until wr \avg damage reaches a certain level. Let them BUY OR GRIND whatever tank they want and salivate over playing it until their game improves. Provides both motivation and profits for WOTB. Wouldnt cure everything, but anything to help with the extreme bonehead problems. Of course a real tutorial would help a bit too tho many players simply dont care enough about anyone to heed what is taught.

j_rod #1345 Posted 17 July 2020 - 12:18 AM

    Not a moderator, but Better Looking Than Cletus

  • Players
  • 28029 battles
  • 2,312
  • [III-R]
  • Member since:
    05-04-2011

View Posthul_steel, on 15 July 2020 - 12:36 PM, said:

Wow, a lot like Ive been saying for ages - Have players limited to what tier tank tier they can play until wr \avg damage reaches a certain level. Let them BUY OR GRIND whatever tank they want and salivate over playing it until their game improves. Provides both motivation and profits for WOTB. Wouldnt cure everything, but anything to help with the extreme bonehead problems. Of course a real tutorial would help a bit too tho many players simply dont care enough about anyone to heed what is taught.


FFS, it’s a video game. If you or anyone else think that WG is going to limit people from playing higher tier tanks bc of skill (or lack thereof) you’ve lost your ****ing mind. 
 

Could they do a better job of teaching players? Absolutely. But to think they will limit players due to skill is just plain stupid.


Working as intended
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


Rou_Garou #1346 Posted 19 July 2020 - 12:52 AM

    Carriers needed - apply inside

  • Players
  • 34298 battles
  • 1,021
  • [OP-4]
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013

Question for the forum:

What is balanced matchmaking?

I am sure WG has a definition and I feel that everyone possibly has their own definition or mostly what they desire it to be.

Since player wr is not a factor, then balancing tanks and tiers are the options available.

With those parameters in mind, what would be ideal matchup for a competitive battle?

equal # heavies, tds, etc.

same tier for each type

same tanks on each side

 

On another note; I heard in WG live stream discussion MM.  One consideration is to include the wr or performance of the tank in the algorithm, where you would not have a Obj 252U platoon vs a Caernarvon platoon as the top tier heavies. That seems legit.

 

Thoughts please. The focus on this debate is too much on wr of players and this isn't even a consideration in MM.  The flood gates are open and upper tiers will have some lower skilled players forever.  

 

So, What is balanced MM?

 


 

 

 


j_rod #1347 Posted 19 July 2020 - 04:22 AM

    Not a moderator, but Better Looking Than Cletus

  • Players
  • 28029 battles
  • 2,312
  • [III-R]
  • Member since:
    05-04-2011

View PostRou_Garou, on 18 July 2020 - 06:52 PM, said:

Question for the forum:

What is balanced matchmaking?

I am sure WG has a definition and I feel that everyone possibly has their own definition or mostly what they desire it to be.

Since player wr is not a factor, then balancing tanks and tiers are the options available.

With those parameters in mind, what would be ideal matchup for a competitive battle?

equal # heavies, tds, etc.

same tier for each type

same tanks on each side

 

On another note; I heard in WG live stream discussion MM.  One consideration is to include the wr or performance of the tank in the algorithm, where you would not have a Obj 252U platoon vs a Caernarvon platoon as the top tier heavies. That seems legit.

 

Thoughts please. The focus on this debate is too much on wr of players and this isn't even a consideration in MM.  The flood gates are open and upper tiers will have some lower skilled players forever.  

 

So, What is balanced MM?

 


Equal number of types is what they shoot for already.

 

Same tanks on each side isn’t possible due to queue size.

 

Balancing based on the winrate in the tank is possible I guess but will just bring everyone closer to being a 50%er.

 

The issue isn’t with MM, it’s with the skill level of the average player.


Working as intended
 

It was never fair... but it was fun! - Krietenstein34 

 


IronBehemoth #1348 Posted 20 July 2020 - 03:24 PM

    Official Society Game Play Publicist.

  • Players
  • 11721 battles
  • 559
  • Member since:
    01-17-2015

View PostRou_Garou, on 19 July 2020 - 12:52 AM, said:

Question for the forum:

What is balanced matchmaking?

I am sure WG has a definition and I feel that everyone possibly has their own definition or mostly what they desire it to be.

Since player wr is not a factor, then balancing tanks and tiers are the options available.

With those parameters in mind, what would be ideal matchup for a competitive battle?

equal # heavies, tds, etc.

same tier for each type

same tanks on each side

 

On another note; I heard in WG live stream discussion MM.  One consideration is to include the wr or performance of the tank in the algorithm, where you would not have a Obj 252U platoon vs a Caernarvon platoon as the top tier heavies. That seems legit.

 

Thoughts please. The focus on this debate is too much on wr of players and this isn't even a consideration in MM.  The flood gates are open and upper tiers will have some lower skilled players forever.  

 

So, What is balanced MM?

 

Winrates should never be factored into MM imo. I'm not, however, opposed to them taking tanks into consideration.



Nathanronco #1349 Posted 20 July 2020 - 03:27 PM

    Forum Dweller

  • Players
  • 17689 battles
  • 1,135
  • [BOMV]
  • Member since:
    03-10-2018
If you take a look at some of the very oldest videos on YouTube, like 4-5 maybe more years ago, you'll see that the matchmaker was pretty trash. You could have 3 tier 8s on one team and 7 tier 10s on the other. And it didn't care if there were platoons on both teams. I think matchmaker is fine as it is, I don't think balancing teams out by skill is really ever going to happen.

Edited by Nathanronco, 20 July 2020 - 03:28 PM.


bwcamp #1350 Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:51 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8234 battles
  • 838
  • [WOY1]
  • Member since:
    12-06-2016

View PostNathanronco, on 20 July 2020 - 03:27 PM, said:

If you take a look at some of the very oldest videos on YouTube, like 4-5 maybe more years ago, you'll see that the matchmaker was pretty trash. You could have 3 tier 8s on one team and 7 tier 10s on the other. And it didn't care if there were platoons on both teams. I think matchmaker is fine as it is, I don't think balancing teams out by skill is really ever going to happen.

It's possible, but I see no need to do it. If you're good, your stats will show it, if you're not they won't. Simple. People saying your teams can drag down your stats, that may be for 1-2 battles, but if you're overall stats are bad, than you're not a good player. I myself have been getting better(been watching a heck of a lot of Youtube vids)so if MM sucked, that wouldn't happen.


The difference between camping and sniping is that the sniper looks for opportunities and the camper looks at the scenery.
- EL_Din_1946

_Crusader6_ #1351 Posted 22 July 2020 - 08:35 PM

    Vote Slime Mold

  • Players
  • 70564 battles
  • 15,601
  • [BDGER]
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

View PostNathanronco, on 20 July 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

If you take a look at some of the very oldest videos on YouTube, like 4-5 maybe more years ago, you'll see that the matchmaker was pretty trash. You could have 3 tier 8s on one team and 7 tier 10s on the other. And it didn't care if there were platoons on both teams. I think matchmaker is fine as it is, I don't think balancing teams out by skill is really ever going to happen.

In +/-2 I had a hot key

: Go Home MM You’re DRUNK 

Tier disparities was common at times. 
I put screenshots up several years ago of a 5x 8, 2x9 green team against a 5xX, 2x9 red team.  
  
That was solved during the -+/-1 trial period and when we went back to +/-2 after the trial teams where balanced for tier. 
You won’t find anyone who misses tier mismatch 
 

 

To me type matching is boring. I enjoy the diversity that non evenly type matches give. 


 

 
Tank Hoarder: 424 tanks in Garage:  435/435 Played Tanks Aced
 
This space for rent until next terrible mechanic ;) 
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 
 

 


bwcamp #1352 Posted 22 July 2020 - 08:56 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8234 battles
  • 838
  • [WOY1]
  • Member since:
    12-06-2016

View Post_Crusader6_, on 22 July 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

In +/-2 I had a hot key

: Go Home MM You’re DRUNK 

Tier disparities was common at times. 
I put screenshots up several years ago of a 5x 8, 2x9 green team against a 5xX, 2x9 red team.  
  
That was solved during the -+/-1 trial period and when we went back to +/-2 after the trial teams where balanced for tier. 
You won’t find anyone who misses tier mismatch 
 

 

To me type matching is boring. I enjoy the diversity that non evenly type matches give. 

I would be better if they tried to match teams by skill and tanks(modules), not by tank type.


The difference between camping and sniping is that the sniper looks for opportunities and the camper looks at the scenery.
- EL_Din_1946

_Crusader6_ #1353 Posted 22 July 2020 - 11:54 PM

    Vote Slime Mold

  • Players
  • 70564 battles
  • 15,601
  • [BDGER]
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

View Postbwcamp, on 22 July 2020 - 03:56 PM, said:

I would be better if they tried to match teams by skill and tanks(modules), not by tank type.


No. 

 Skill based MM would be a nightmare for Blitz.  
For it to mean anything you’d need to use Individual tank data - that to be under +/5% reliable needs of 440 battle in a tank.  
 Say you don’t use individual tank stats,  If I’m 65%+ in one tank in X, but 50% in another - where does one get put.  
WG doesn’t use Wn8 etc so it’s a WR/DMG set most likely - and if you balance teams - they are start driving to the middle.  
 That’s going to make any 60%’er furious. 
 

 

Modules - why? WG would not benefit then (selling free exp conversion) and those of us with all likes ground and hundred of K of Free Exp don’t benefit either. 
  New tanks already get a honeymoon period 

 


 

 
Tank Hoarder: 424 tanks in Garage:  435/435 Played Tanks Aced
 
This space for rent until next terrible mechanic ;) 
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 
 

 


Rou_Garou #1354 Posted 23 July 2020 - 12:29 PM

    Carriers needed - apply inside

  • Players
  • 34298 battles
  • 1,021
  • [OP-4]
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013

+2/-2

Could this mode be made available again. 

It sounds intriguing.  I started in Dec 2016 and missed it.

I realize tanks are balanced with +1/-1 mentality

I would try it out if it was an event like gravity

or even separate mode like ratings


 

 

 


bwcamp #1355 Posted 23 July 2020 - 01:32 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8234 battles
  • 838
  • [WOY1]
  • Member since:
    12-06-2016

View PostRou_Garou, on 23 July 2020 - 12:29 PM, said:

+2/-2

Could this mode be made available again. 

It sounds intriguing.  I started in Dec 2016 and missed it.

I realize tanks are balanced with +1/-1 mentality

I would try it out if it was an event like gravity

or even separate mode like ratings

You don't want that. I've played PC, and it would probably be even worse in Blitz.


The difference between camping and sniping is that the sniper looks for opportunities and the camper looks at the scenery.
- EL_Din_1946

_Crusader6_ #1356 Posted 23 July 2020 - 06:09 PM

    Vote Slime Mold

  • Players
  • 70564 battles
  • 15,601
  • [BDGER]
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

View Postbwcamp, on 23 July 2020 - 08:32 AM, said:

You don't want that. I've played PC, and it would probably be even worse in Blitz.



It forces players to think more than +/-1. Now I know it won’t come back - as so many folks whined about being low tier.  
  But I and many more played it - I agree it was awful in a stock tier 8 when you where -2, but it made you a lot more aware and you needed to support your team - either tracking reds or using mobility.  
 

The fact is now -1 tanks can still pen the top tier tanks - sure they may need to use Prammo - but it’s not nearly as team Oriented as +/-2 was.    
 

+/-1 is what it is, it actually favors better players - but it gives the poorer players the illusion of being ‘fairer’.  Plus now you can’t blame being a -2 for failing to contribute.  My point wasn’t that we should go back to +/-2, it was simply that +/-1 MM was the start of the slide that teams matter less.  
  
The player base by and large now is a rotten sewer.  
  

 


 

 
Tank Hoarder: 424 tanks in Garage:  435/435 Played Tanks Aced
 
This space for rent until next terrible mechanic ;) 
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 
 

 


bwcamp #1357 Posted 23 July 2020 - 07:28 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 8234 battles
  • 838
  • [WOY1]
  • Member since:
    12-06-2016

View Post_Crusader6_, on 23 July 2020 - 06:09 PM, said:

The player base by and large now is a rotten sewer.  

Not a sewer. A dump, full of trash.


The difference between camping and sniping is that the sniper looks for opportunities and the camper looks at the scenery.
- EL_Din_1946

erovi #1358 Posted 25 July 2020 - 05:47 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Players
  • 36276 battles
  • 124
  • [RT166]
  • Member since:
    02-18-2016
A lot has been said about MM. After a few years playing all I can say is that so many 7-0 and 7-1 battles shows that something is wrong with the game and needs to be fixed. WOT developers should look at the stats and find some reasonable way for the company to keep making money without causing so much frustration in players. The game should be fun and fair. Many times it iisn't. Im sure the problem can be fixed´if WOTB decides to do so. For their sake and ours,hope they do it soon.

_Crusader6_ #1359 Posted 25 July 2020 - 05:21 PM

    Vote Slime Mold

  • Players
  • 70564 battles
  • 15,601
  • [BDGER]
  • Member since:
    12-08-2014

View Posterovi, on 25 July 2020 - 12:47 AM, said:

A lot has been said about MM. After a few years playing all I can say is that so many 7-0 and 7-1 battles shows that something is wrong with the game and needs to be fixed. WOT developers should look at the stats and find some reasonable way for the company to keep making money without causing so much frustration in players. The game should be fun and fair. Many times it iisn't. Im sure the problem can be fixed´if WOTB decides to do so. For their sake and ours,hope they do it soon.


Define fair.

  Is it fair for me and another 60%+ players to have to listen to 40% players complain about MM?  

‘Balanced’ teams are not fair - and of course the whole is of what is a balanced Team comes up. 

Steamrolls happen simply due to math. 
  When a player dies early his HP and DPM are gone. 
So now the other team has an advantage, and it doesn’t matter what the skill levels are. 
 7v6 quickly turns into 7v5 etc. 

 

You can still see steamrolls in high level tournaments due to this. - less often, but they do still happen 

 

Steam rolls where less a factor in +/-2, simply due to the fact some of the lower tier tanks usually got picked off before a total roll occurred.  Now in +/-1 pretty much any tank can pen all the tanks on the other team - so focus fire is much more deadly now. 

You want to have less steamrolls- be a better player. 
 

 


 

 
Tank Hoarder: 424 tanks in Garage:  435/435 Played Tanks Aced
 
This space for rent until next terrible mechanic ;) 
 
    Wallet Warrior: Loyal Original M60 owner
 
 

 


Sniper_Hanz #1360 Posted 27 July 2020 - 04:15 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Players
  • 7322 battles
  • 18
  • [RT166]
  • Member since:
    03-09-2016

View Post_Crusader6_, on 25 July 2020 - 05:21 PM, said:


Define fair.

  Is it fair for me and another 60%+ players to have to listen to 40% players complain about MM?  

‘Balanced’ teams are not fair - and of course the whole is of what is a balanced Team comes up. 

Steamrolls happen simply due to math. 
  When a player dies early his HP and DPM are gone. 
So now the other team has an advantage, and it doesn’t matter what the skill levels are. 
 7v6 quickly turns into 7v5 etc. 

 

You can still see steamrolls in high level tournaments due to this. - less often, but they do still happen 

 

Steam rolls where less a factor in +/-2, simply due to the fact some of the lower tier tanks usually got picked off before a total roll occurred.  Now in +/-1 pretty much any tank can pen all the tanks on the other team - so focus fire is much more deadly now. 

You want to have less steamrolls- be a better player. 
 

 

Don't know where you get that 40% players complaint about MM, but if that's the case, statistically speaking that's a number high enough to justify that WOTB developers need to look for a way to make the game more satisfying to every player. You can't asume that 60% of players are satisfied with the game. Many of these could well be dissatisfied but don't express their opinion in this forum.  I agree with  those who say the argument would be over if WOTB just gave us a detailed explanation on how they go about MM, both for new and experienced players. Thanks.


Edited by Sniper_Hanz, 27 July 2020 - 04:26 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users