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j_rod #1381 Posted 30 July 2020 - 10:43 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 30 July 2020 - 03:17 PM, said:

I said i've had plenty of battles, over 7800 battles. Never said I carried "routinely" You're just twisting what I said to make an arguement. And it's not a carry if you don't win, in that post I was pointing out how unfair that battle was. And if it was the other team it still would've been unfair for them.

 

 

Cool, so you understand why cherry picking random games to prove your point about MM is absurd? If that's the case, why did you even say it?

 

I'm not here to make an argument. I'm pointing out how/why you don't have one. 


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bwcamp #1382 Posted 31 July 2020 - 12:47 AM

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View Postj_rod, on 30 July 2020 - 10:43 PM, said:

 

Cool, so you understand why cherry picking random games to prove your point about MM is absurd? If that's the case, why did you even say it?

 

I'm not here to make an argument. I'm pointing out how/why you don't have one. 

I get those games all the time, not cherry picking. Almost always one side is favored.

Edit. More me at least


Edited by bwcamp, 31 July 2020 - 12:47 AM.


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IronBehemoth #1383 Posted 31 July 2020 - 04:08 AM

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View Postbwcamp, on 31 July 2020 - 12:47 AM, said:

I get those games all the time, not cherry picking. Almost always one side is favored.

Edit. More me at least

You're still saying it. You think the game is rigged against you. You think you created your account and the game devs said, "Hey, that kid, lets tilt the game against him. [edited]him in particular." You realize how ridiculous you sound claiming that, right? 



Absolute_Sniper #1384 Posted 31 July 2020 - 05:09 AM

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View PostIronBehemoth, on 31 July 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

You're still saying it. You think the game is rigged against you. You think you created your account and the game devs said, "Hey, that kid, lets tilt the game against him. [edited]him in particular." You realize how ridiculous you sound claiming that, right? 

He isn’t wrong in that most games have a discrepancy. They do. I consistently see 5-10% variance in average winrates. The part that’s mostly even though is how often it’s in your favor or not.
 

Alternatively, almost every game is winnable. The only constant determining factor is personal play. Focusing on anything outside of that is an exercise in futility. Those that wish to improve, will improve. Those that wish to blame any and everything other than their play  will always have the same excuses.   


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Noob666_ #1385 Posted 31 July 2020 - 01:03 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 30 July 2020 - 03:17 PM, said:

true

I said i've had plenty of battles, over 7800 battles. Never said I carried "routinely" You're just twisting what I said to make an arguement. And it's not a carry if you don't win, in that post I was pointing out how unfair that battle was. And if it was the other team it still would've been unfair for them.

when it's 15v15 the +2/-2 isn't bad, but in a 7v7 format I can't see how that would work. Say there's 3 tier 6, 2 tier 7, 1 tier 8. Now lets say that tier 8 is a KV-4. How many tier 6s are gonna pen that? Only if they flank, and you can't flank in every single scenario. WoWs is a lot different than Blitz.

Ok, WoWs may not of been the best example, but I heard that more steamrolls happen after removal of +2/-2. More teamwork was required which mean't now that bad teamates is less of a valid arguement, not like it was ever anyways. Again, you are just nitpicking situations and the introduction of the VK 100 and the armor buffs that turned the KV-4 and Tiger into superheavies. You are assuming no tier 6 can fight tier 8 which both tier 7 and 6 MEDIUMS have 140mm of pen. You could argue that most tech tree tier 8 mediums would suffer, except what if I told you they needed a buff even in +1/-1 situations. The meta has shifted to favor heavies more since the removal of +2/-2 and WG does not balance with that old mm anymore because it obvious,y does not exist.


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Noob666_ #1386 Posted 31 July 2020 - 01:05 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 30 July 2020 - 06:47 PM, said:

I get those games all the time, not cherry picking. Almost always one side is favored.

Edit. More me at least


Do NOT think that you cannot win on 45-50% teams against 55-70% teams. I have seen a good amount of the latter teams to lose. In fact often, I used to blame my team (and probably still do), and find out I was the only 40%er. And this is an extreme example that everyone uses when they post team shame tuesday on the wotb subreddit or when making this type of thread so do not cherry pick and still defend your arguement with reasons everyone has proven WRONG.

 

 

Is RedOctopus your alt?


Edited by Noob666_, 31 July 2020 - 01:12 PM.

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_BobaFett #1387 Posted 31 July 2020 - 01:22 PM

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View PostNoob666_, on 31 July 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:


Do NOT think that you cannot win on 45-50% teams against 55-70% teams. I have seen a good amount of the latter teams to lose. In fact often, I used to blame my team (and probably still do), and find out I was the only 40%er. And this is an extreme example that everyone uses when they post team shame tuesday on the wotb subreddit or when making this type of thread so do not cherry pick and still defend your arguement with reasons everyone has proven WRONG.

 

 

Is RedOctopus your alt?

I once had a PRAMO platoon on green as well as a Void player. I thought there was no way in hell we could lose this.

 

We lost.


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bwcamp #1388 Posted 31 July 2020 - 05:40 PM

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View PostIronBehemoth, on 31 July 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

You're still saying it. You think the game is rigged against you. You think you created your account and the game devs said, "Hey, that kid, lets tilt the game against him. [edited]him in particular." You realize how ridiculous you sound claiming that, right? 

No, it's not rigged, the MM isn't good. And I never claimed the mm was rigged, I said "at least for me", I was saying that it happens to me, but I can't say it happens to you because i'm not you. You really like twisting my words to sound smart don't you?

View PostNoob666_, on 31 July 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Ok, WoWs may not of been the best example, but I heard that more steamrolls happen after removal of +2/-2. More teamwork was required which mean't now that bad teamates is less of a valid arguement, not like it was ever anyways. Again, you are just nitpicking situations and the introduction of the VK 100 and the armor buffs that turned the KV-4 and Tiger into superheavies. You are assuming no tier 6 can fight tier 8 which both tier 7 and 6 MEDIUMS have 140mm of pen. You could argue that most tech tree tier 8 mediums would suffer, except what if I told you they needed a buff even in +1/-1 situations. The meta has shifted to favor heavies more since the removal of +2/-2 and WG does not balance with that old mm anymore because it obvious,y does not exist.

WoTs would be a better example. Exactly. More teamwork was required. Half the game's population now is a bunch of idiots who either yolo or camp. 

View PostNoob666_, on 31 July 2020 - 01:05 PM, said:


Do NOT think that you cannot win on 45-50% teams against 55-70% teams. I have seen a good amount of the latter teams to lose. In fact often, I used to blame my team (and probably still do), and find out I was the only 40%er. And this is an extreme example that everyone uses when they post team shame tuesday on the wotb subreddit or when making this type of thread so do not cherry pick and still defend your arguement with reasons everyone has proven WRONG.

 

 

Is RedOctopus your alt?

They can, but when some 40%er dies early, that's when a steamroll happens. Usually

View PostNathanronco, on 31 July 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

I once had a PRAMO platoon on green as well as a Void player. I thought there was no way in hell we could lose this.

 

We lost.

I faced a PRAMO on the opposite team. He killed me, but at least we won. We had 2 60%ers though, and he was their only good player



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j_rod #1389 Posted 31 July 2020 - 06:26 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 28 July 2020 - 07:27 AM, said:

So you speak for every good player? I'm not bad, i'm just not a unicom, but does that make me a bad player? Cause I don't like the mm. I've had plenty of battles where I was the only one on my team to break 3k, and there were 3 tanks on my team that did zilch. 2 of the tanks that did damage for 50-52%ers, and the rest were 45-49%. Meanwhile, the other team had damage on all of their tanks, and had 2 50%ers, 1 60%, and the rest 45-49%ers. Tell me how that is a fair mm.

 

View Postbwcamp, on 29 July 2020 - 03:49 PM, said:

no, I want teams to be balanced, not lopsided. They'd only end in a tie if both teams sat on their butts and camped.

 

You're arguing with multiple people trying to tell you the same thing and you sound stupid. You're confusing "fair" with "balanced". MM is fair because we're all subjected to the same players/teams over a period of time given that it's random. It may not be balanced, but that's completely different than it being fair.

 

The arguments for and against balanced MM have been made over and over and over on this thread. So instead of arguing with those of us that have been here for a long time, why not take the time to go re-read this thread. Once you've done that, if you have something new to add, we'd love to hear it. Otherwise, you're just retreading the same tired argument we've all heard and looking like an *** by arguing with everyone. 


Edited by j_rod, 31 July 2020 - 06:27 PM.

Working as intended
 

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bwcamp #1390 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:13 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 31 July 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

 

 

You're arguing with multiple people trying to tell you the same thing and you sound stupid. You're confusing "fair" with "balanced". MM is fair because we're all subjected to the same players/teams over a period of time given that it's random. It may not be balanced, but that's completely different than it being fair.

 

The arguments for and against balanced MM have been made over and over and over on this thread. So instead of arguing with those of us that have been here for a long time, why not take the time to go re-read this thread. Once you've done that, if you have something new to add, we'd love to hear it. Otherwise, you're just retreading the same tired argument we've all heard and looking like an *** by arguing with everyone. 

I doubt any of you would listen to a "bad player" according to you.
I just think that fair mm should be balanced. It does the same thing in the end, but I get tired of having steamrolls, with 3 of my team dead within 1 minute, and the enemy team only has 2 tanks with 2-3 shots taken out of them.



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Amm0rat #1391 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:51 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 31 July 2020 - 06:13 PM, said:

I doubt any of you would listen to a "bad player" according to you.
I just think that fair mm should be balanced. It does the same thing in the end, but I get tired of having steamrolls, with 3 of my team dead within 1 minute, and the enemy team only has 2 tanks with 2-3 shots taken out of them.

 

I strongly recommend giving my thread on mm a read if you haven't already. If you're tired of your trash teams, then carry hard. 

 


bwcamp #1392 Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:54 PM

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View Postbob_000, on 31 July 2020 - 10:51 PM, said:

 

I strongly recommend giving my thread on mm a read if you haven't already. If you're tired of your trash teams, then carry hard. 

 

I'm not a unicom, so it's hard to carry a noob team. But i've been trying to get better, reading forums, watching youtube videos, studying tanks stats, ect. My stats have been rising. I can carry the team if they don't entirely suck, but if it's 1-2, i'm not good enough yet to carry.



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j_rod #1393 Posted 01 August 2020 - 12:50 AM

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View Postbwcamp, on 31 July 2020 - 04:13 PM, said:

I doubt any of you would listen to a "bad player" according to you.
I just think that fair mm should be balanced. It does the same thing in the end, but I get tired of having steamrolls, with 3 of my team dead within 1 minute, and the enemy team only has 2 tanks with 2-3 shots taken out of them.


You literally didn’t read what I said at all, did you? Ffs, go read the numerous posts and comments regarding balanced MM before making another stupid comment. 


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IronBehemoth #1394 Posted 01 August 2020 - 03:50 AM

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View Postbwcamp, on 31 July 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

No, it's not rigged, the MM isn't good. And I never claimed the mm was rigged, I said "at least for me", I was saying that it happens to me, but I can't say it happens to you because i'm not you. You really like twisting my words to sound smart don't you?

WoTs would be a better example. Exactly. More teamwork was required. Half the game's population now is a bunch of idiots who either yolo or camp. 

They can, but when some 40%er dies early, that's when a steamroll happens. Usually

I faced a PRAMO on the opposite team. He killed me, but at least we won. We had 2 60%ers though, and he was their only good player

I don't have to twist your words to sound smart when you already sound stupid throwing out these ridiculous claims. Wargaming isn't going to make queue sizes excessively long for a minimal at best benefit that you will probably claim "isn't doing enough"



_Crusader6_ #1395 Posted 01 August 2020 - 05:49 PM

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Balanced - I could and have given many reasons (as have others) why it won’t work in Blitz.  
  I’m done rehashing it. 
 

 
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bwcamp #1396 Posted 01 August 2020 - 07:40 PM

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View Postj_rod, on 01 August 2020 - 12:50 AM, said:


You literally didn’t read what I said at all, did you? Ffs, go read the numerous posts and comments regarding balanced MM before making another stupid comment. 

I will when I have the time XD. 70 pages is a lot.

View PostIronBehemoth, on 01 August 2020 - 03:50 AM, said:

I don't have to twist your words to sound smart when you already sound stupid throwing out these ridiculous claims. Wargaming isn't going to make queue sizes excessively long for a minimal at best benefit that you will probably claim "isn't doing enough"

And how would it make queue sizes excessively long?



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_Crusader6_ #1397 Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:15 PM

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View Postbwcamp, on 01 August 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

I will when I have the time XD. 70 pages is a lot.

And how would it make queue sizes excessively long?


Read the thread in its entirety. 
 

Then ask questions. 
 

Pretty much everything you have brought up has been discussed in detail.  
  It is EXCEPTIONALLY frustrating to rehash discussions in the same thread. 


 

 
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bwcamp #1398 Posted 01 August 2020 - 11:30 PM

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View Post_Crusader6_, on 01 August 2020 - 11:15 PM, said:


Read the thread in its entirety. 
 

Then ask questions. 
 

Pretty much everything you have brought up has been discussed in detail.  
  It is EXCEPTIONALLY frustrating to rehash discussions in the same thread. 

As I said, I will when I have the time, but 70 pages is a lot to read in one sitting



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GunShycc #1399 Posted 03 August 2020 - 03:19 AM

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Anyone who bought or won Premium tanks with preferred matchmaking can confirm that!! PZB2 is the perfect example, with an original -1 / +0 Matchmaking. They have wanted do away with that for years. Now see them nerf such tanks as that and the equipment and ammo choices taken away from other “Blue Tanks”, and know it further from reduced performance and being easily by so many other tanks. 
 

But what cinched my beliefs, is when playing a game, where I was the last tank on my team still in play, yet 2 “team mates” could still talk to me, telling me what to do. Last time I checked, a dead tank can say nothing further in the game. This tells me that some kind of manipulation is in play from hidden “players”, that have a lot more powers than just rank and file players, and that they play with people to slant game play when they want to, to suit what ever means they have in mind. Power creep, sloppy game script, people who seem to be able to cheat, “rebalanced” tanks and nerfed premium tanks, tell me more than I ever wanted to know, enough to consider joining the ranks of those who have wisely chosen to “go beyond the rim” to other past time pursuits.


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View Postbwcamp, on 01 August 2020 - 12:40 PM, said:

I will when I have the time XD. 70 pages is a lot.

And how would it make queue sizes excessively long?

 

You are right, the queue sizes are irrelevant. Whatever the MM rules are, it takes milliseconds for the computer to process them. 

 

And my advice is not to waste your time reading 70 pages. Nobody knows how MM works for this game. Only the computer programmers know, but they don't tell us. In my opinion, the most useless comments in these 70 pages are from the players who are "100 % convinced that MM is completely random". They have no idea what they are talking about, but they are 100% sure about it!!! Haha.

 

 

Conclusion: Just remember that human coders have programmed both the MM and the RNG (don't forget the RNG!!!), they can change the software any time, they can change it as often as they want to --- since it resides on the server. They can change it in any way they want, making it random, or not random, favoring players, clans, or just trying to make the game more streaky and more addictive for the players, or favoring weak players in an effort to keep them playing, or whatever. We don't know. We'll never know. You or I or anyone else on these forums has no idea how it works and how often the programmers change it ... and we can do nothing about it.  

 


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